Big bore revolvers

[RealGun]

Thanks for everyone's input. I'm seeing a lot of convertible suggestions so I'll check those out.

Single actions keep getting my attention, and I like the idea of being able to load up to the "Ruger only" levels if I wanted to. But I guess it's still between 44 mag and 45 Colt.

Which has more flexibility from a reloading perspective? The 44 mag/special or the 45 Colt/ACP combination? Seems that the 45 wins here but I'm not familiar really with the 44 special.

I guess I've still got some research and shopping around to do. I've been given a lot of good stuff to think about!

The 45 convertible is a pretty big gun, so with the 45 ACP cylinder the shooting is pretty boring, if you like kabooms. The mass and barrel length of the gun reduces much of the 45 ACP energy at the shooter's end. I shoot my 7 1/2" NMBH 45 Convertible exclusively in 45 Colt with a mid level (20k+) load of 9.0 grains of Unique and 250 grain lead.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

While you can shoot 45 Colt and 454 Casull in a 460 S&W Mag, I understand accuracy with at least the 45 Colt is not as good as it could be due to the 1/2" shorter case and the jump to the forcing cones that the bullet has to do.

While I have fired a few 45 Colt cartridges in my 460XVR, I found a light load (1100 fps or so, light for the 460 ) for the 460 S&W case. That way I do not have to deal with the carbon build up in the chambers that forms when shooting shorter cases.

Besides, I save my 45 Colt cases for my 45 Colt revolver and the option is there if I choose to exercise it.

I have experienced this with my 460V with some loads. I was shooting some 250 grain FMJ 45 Colt made by a company called Northern Hills Ammo I believe. It was all over the place. I really slowed down and went to single action only shooting, and the ammo would not hit where I wanted it to at all. So I loaded up some 200 gr 460S&W rounds, and it was shooting like a laser beam again. 454 ammo seems fine too, at least Hornady's ammo that is. I haven't done any recorded or measured testing, but when shooting 45 Colt, my particular 460V seems to like light bullets. 225 gr and lighter seems to work well.

Once I get a tool head for the 460 mag I plan to just start downloading 460 cases as you describe if I want some lighter recoiling ammo.

 

[22-rimfire]

I'd expect almost 60yrs counts as "so many years" to most folks. Which is how long ago it was true the .44mag was the most powerful revolver cartridge in the world.

The .44mag wasn't the most powerful in the world even when the movie came out. Harry Calahan was either a liar, or not well informed when he made that statement 46years ago (quite a few years ago in itself). The .44rem mag was released in 1955, only enjoyed 3 short years in the limelight before the .454casull overshadowed it in 1958 - 59 years ago. Then the Supermags came out in the 1970's, Linebaugh's came in over 30yrs ago... Been a long time since .44mag was king of the castle, no matter how old a shooter might be.

The 454 at that time was not available in factory loadings. I suspect it wasn't available for quite a few years. I think you can only really consider cartridges after they are available in factory loadings from a practical point of view. Also it was pretty much only available in custom Casull revolvers. This also doesn't change the fact that most people could not handle a 44 mag with factory loads at that time. Perspectives change. Mine have. I don't believe the auto mag outshined the 44 mag, but it really didn't last long in the market place.

If I had to guess, I'd say the 454 only became mainstream when Ruger chambered it in their SRH along with the 480 Ruger.

I'm still a 41 mag guy overall. The 475/480 is likely to remain the most powerful caliber I own and shoot.

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

I just realized I only have one big-bore revolver... and it's percussion. That's OK, it will be a .45 Colt soon enough; getting a Kirst gated conversion.

 

[MaxP]

The 454 at that time was not available in factory loadings. I suspect it wasn't available for quite a few years. I think you can only really consider cartridges after they are available in factory loadings from a practical point of view. Also it was pretty much only available in custom Casull revolvers. This also doesn't change the fact that most people could not handle a 44 mag with factory loads at that time. Perspectives change. Mine have. I don't believe the auto mag outshined the 44 mag, but it really didn't last long in the market place.

If I had to guess, I'd say the 454 only became mainstream when Ruger chambered it in their SRH along with the 480 Ruger.

I'm still a 41 mag guy overall. The 475/480 is likely to remain the most powerful caliber I own and shoot.

Yup, and it actually became a commerciaL reality when Freedom Arms released the Model 83 (as designed by Dick Casull) in 1983. Before that it was essentially just a hot loaded (very hot) .45 Colt. So the .44 Mag wore the most powerful commercial cartridge crown for quite some time.

 

[MaxP]

Boy I don't usually care much for ivory grips, but the grain on those are really gorgeous Max. Combine that with the gun overall, and she's a real looker.

Thank you, but they are Dall sheep, hence the pink tint. It has become one of my favorite sheep horn grip material -- well that and big horn.

 

[22-rimfire]

Max, do you have any suggestions on replacement grips for the standard BFR revolvers?

The 80's is when handgun hunting (bigger bore) for deer and other animals started to become popular. You can thank the gun writers of the time for that.

 

[Deaf Smith]

A slightly lighter, and more "swevelt" revolver than the Smith & Wesson Model 29, but still plenty "big bore" enough for me.

Smith & Wesson's Model 24-3, in 44 Special.





The slight taper to the barrel, and the slightly shorter cylinder give it a totally different feel than a 4" Model 29 (The Model 15 in 38 Special, as the same relationship to the Model 19 357 to me.). I don't try to load it hot. The paper targets I shoot don't take a lot of killing. If you need more power, a Model 29 is the way to go.

Do plenty well Cajun! I have the 3 inch version and it puts them all in one hole. Most of my .44 magnum shooting is merely a 240/250 at 900 to 1000 fps.

Deaf

 

[MaxP]

Max, do you have any suggestions on replacement grips for the standard BFR revolvers?

The 80's is when handgun hunting (bigger bore) for deer and other animals started to become popular. You can thank the gun writers of the time for that.

BFR has a new rubber grip that is an improvement over the old one (see picture below), but they are now offering their version of a "Bisley" grip that is very similar to the extended grip frame as designed by Jack Huntington. I just ordered a BFR with that grip to test and will post up some photos of it when it gets delivered.

 

[tuckerdog1]

It shoots well. the trigger is pretty smooth out of the box. Don't get me wrong it is no Performance center trigger but it works well. It is no comparison to my 44 Anaconda but it will get better after a few thousand rounds


As for the signature I used to compete all over Tn. doing Power Lifting.
When I started on the Automotive boards and the firearm boards I thought that signature suited me to a T. I still lift averagely heavy when I can but being as I am getting older "Heavy" is not as much weight as it once was

Sounds like an old SNL skit, where an aging Hercules was commanded to lift a boulder. He looks at the boulder and says " That boulder is much to large, how about I lift a smaller boulder".

 

[SlowFuse]

I looked at a basic Blackhawk today, blued with black (plastic?) grips.

I would want to immediately replace those I think. The angle was ok, but the grips felt cheap. What would you suggest replacing them with? Altamonte is usually my go-to for grip replacements.

 

[Hondo 60]

Ya, I'm not too thrilled with the standard grips either.
Steel & wood just have that nice warm glow

How about a Redhawk in 44 Mag.

 

[SlowFuse]

Looks good @Hondo 60

 

[jdavis123]

I would recommend a .44 Mag DA revolver. It can fire mild .44Spl to full .44 mag rounds. Since you reload, you have the ability to taylor loads to your liking. S&W, Ruger, and Taurus make good revolvers in .44 Magnum that can be found within your budget. I would not overlook the used market.

 

[RealGun]

I looked at a basic Blackhawk today, blued with black (plastic?) grips.

I would want to immediately replace those I think. The angle was ok, but the grips felt cheap. What would you suggest replacing them with? Altamonte is usually my go-to for grip replacements.

This flat top may have a different grip frame, I forget, but shows an example of what logo medallion grips are available from Ruger.

 

[cfullgraf]

I looked at a basic Blackhawk today, blued with black (plastic?) grips.

I would want to immediately replace those I think. The angle was ok, but the grips felt cheap. What would you suggest replacing them with? Altamonte is usually my go-to for grip replacements.

I like Pachmayr neoprene grips on my handguns, even on the Ruger Blackhawks. One problem, Ruger has three or four different grip frames for the Blackhawks and there is only one or two Pachmayrs that fit only one or two of the grip frames.

There are some handsome wood grips out there, though.

 

[Dog Soldier]

Max, do you have any suggestions on replacement grips for the standard BFR revolvers?

The 80's is when handgun hunting (bigger bore) for deer and other animals started to become popular. You can thank the gun writers of the time for that.

Where did handgun hunting first become popular in the 1980s? Which states are you referring to? I am most interested? Did laws change? Where? I was a close friend of Bob Milek of Guns & Ammo. Bob did help us. Which gun writers are you crediting. In our state it was voted in during 1978. Yes we got help from Gun Magazines . We have recently approved the .224 calibers for specified game. This is another big change.Thanks.

http://www.huntwyo.com/blog/new-weapon-regulations-for-hunting-in-wyoming/

 

[RealGun]

Where did handgun hunting first become popular in the 1980s? Which states are you referring to? I am most interested? Did laws change? Where? I was a close friend of Bob Milek of Guns & Ammo. Bob did help us. Which gun writers are you crediting. In our state it was voted in during 1978. Yes we got help from Gun Magazines . We have recently approved the .224 calibers for specified game. This is another big change.Thanks.

http://www.huntwyo.com/blog/new-weapon-regulations-for-hunting-in-wyoming/

A lot of rhetorical questions. Maybe there could more simply be a statement of the facts as you know them.

 

[Dog Soldier]

I am a paying and contributing member of this forum. I reserve the right to ask a questions.

 

[22-rimfire]

"Where did handgun hunting first become popular in the 1980s? Which states are you referring to? I am most interested? Did laws change? Where? I was a close friend of Bob Milek of Guns & Ammo. Bob did help us. Which gun writers are you crediting. In our state it was voted in during 1978. Yes we got help from Gun Magazines . We have recently approved the .224 calibers for specified game. This is another big change.Thanks."

I wouldn't say that handgun hunting was "popular" in the 80's (contrary to my wording above), but the ground work was being laid by writers such as Bob Milek at that time and interest was building. It also followed the introduction of hunting type handguns (and calibers) as time moved forward. One of the first Handgun Hunting annuals that I am aware of was published by Guns & Ammo was in 1983.

Added: You might recall several Colt Python models; Hunter, 10 pointer, Whitetailer which generally were long barreled 357 mag Pythons in the early to mid 1980's. Since production of the Python continued into the 90's, one of these models may have been later than 1986.

As to the where, it happened first in the hunting states and spread outward. For the most part, the states changed their hunting guidelines to allow for handguns with their appropriate minimum caliber, barrel length, or power (ft pounds). typically it was 357 mag or larger with a minimum 4" barrel, but it varied. I personally wish that states would include handguns with the black powder seasons as being legal. That would spur a lot of interest as many hunters like to widen their seasons.

My memory is that Bob Milek was probably the biggest proponent along with Keith. Even Ayoob wrote on the subject. Other writers such as Ed Park, Steve Ferber, Bob Hagel, and John Taffin contributed to the subject, I always read the articles where handguns were used for hunting. There was a great attraction to me where as the self defense articles didn't really appeal to me as much. There were also the survival articles which more often than not focused on 22LR handguns when handguns were discussed and involved hunting. Now we have Max Prasac who focuses on big bore handguns.

 

[grouselips1]

If you are speaking about authors, let us not forget the venerable Ross Seyfried, who wrote side by side with Bob Milek in the pages of Guns and Ammo. His articles did more to popularize the 45 Colt hot loads and the Bisley Blackhawks than any writing I ran across. He is the single source from that era that pushed Veral Smiths cast bullet designs for hunting. By virtue of effectiveness with penetration and a wide "meplat" to create a large wound channel, with heavy for caliber bullets. I became a disciple of his experimentation and shooting at a very young age and follow through until this day. Both the 44 mag and 45 Colt are excellent cartridges. Do you research before you choose.

As a side note, you have noted shooting the bulk of your ammo in mild cartridges. I see some here naysaying recoil and the 454 casual is my light load and other such statements. From the perspective of an instructor, recoil tolerance of that level without 1000's of rounds of conditioning and the right mind set, is very rare. Let's not forget that there can be physical damage in the hand and wrist area from volume fire with the likes of the 460/500 Smith and Wesson magnums. Their recoil is extremely stout. You are well advised to handle as many as you can and if possible shoot a few on your perspective list, prior to laying down your hard earned money!

 

[huntsman]

Where did handgun hunting first become popular in the 1980s?

Early 80's in Ohio, I bought a .41 mag Blackhawk in 1982 for the new change in deer season regs.

 

[MaxP]

For me it was Ross Seyfried who gave me more inspiration than any other writer of the time. His seminal piece on hunting Cape buffalo with his Linebaugh-built .45 Colt Seville in 1986 stands alone to this day. Of course is just my opinion. Also, the exploits of Larry Kelly served to inspire many as well.

Recoil tolerance varies from person to person. I shoot a lot of heavy recoil volume and never really get out of shape. That said, if I put down one of my heavy kickers (.500 Maximum, .500 JRH, etc.) for six months or so, I need to work my way back into proficiency. I think there's a lot of myth attached to the .460 and .500 Smith. Keep in mind that the X-frame weighs a good 4 1/2-pounds which negaters recoil quite a bit and an effective brake also mitigates recoil. I found that with either of those calibers you have to get to really hot load levels for them to become truly unpleasant. Now when you go down to a Blackhawk-sized gun in the big calibers that weighs in around 3-pounds, recoil gets to unpleasant levels in a hurry.

 

[22-rimfire]

For me it was Ross Seyfried who gave me more inspiration than any other writer of the time. His seminal piece on hunting Cape buffalo with his Linebaugh-built .45 Colt Seville in 1986 stands alone to this day. Of course is just my opinion. Also, the exploits of Larry Kelly served to inspire many as well.

Recoil tolerance varies from person to person. I shoot a lot of heavy recoil volume and never really get out of shape. That said, if I put down one of my heavy kickers (.500 Maximum, .500 JRH, etc.) for six months or so, I need to work my way back into proficiency. I think there's a lot of myth attached to the .460 and .500 Smith. Keep in mind that the X-frame weighs a good 4 1/2-pounds which negaters recoil quite a bit and an effective brake also mitigates recoil. I found that with either of those calibers you have to get to really hot load levels for them to become truly unpleasant. Now when you go down to a Blackhawk-sized gun in the big calibers that weighs in around 3-pounds, recoil gets to unpleasant levels in a hurry.

Definitely Ross Seyfried also. I was responding to Dog Soldier's statement and questions about popularity of the handgun hunting sport. Recoil does get unpleasant quickly with big bullets and powerful loads in the 3-pounders as you said. Yes to the tolerance aspect as well, and certainly proficiency. As to the OP, I would start in the 41/44/45 power range and work upward if the interest continues. I don't personally have any interest shooting 45 ACP in a revolver made for 45LC. I shoot what the revolver was designed to shoot or choose another revolver with a less powerful chambering.

You see the proponents over on Max's forum. I don't shoot enough to really contribute much over there although the advice was certainly welcomed at the time.

 

[Dog Soldier]

The .357 was not legal here in the early days. It was not considered adequate for Elk and Moose. Bob Milek and I worked together to legalize handgun hunting in Wyoming.
The Ranchers and Big Game Outfitters are the most powerful group politically in the state. They opposed handgun hunting. The state's taxpayers financed the Freedom Arms plant for Mr. Baker in Freedom, Wyoming.
The very gun they produced the .454 Casull was not legal for hunting within the state. In 1978 we won the right for handgun hunting by one vote.
Without the help of Bob Milek, S&W and Ruger it would have taken longer. Bob passed in 1993. He was a great fellow.
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