CCW Badge

[ZeSpectre]

Note on zip ties.

The ones we used when I was an LEO were quite a bit wider than the ones you can buy at the auto-parts store. This is partially so they hold even better but mostly so they don't cut in and bind off circulation which is easily done with smaller zip ties.

Unless you are in a dire circumstance do NOT use automotive type zip ties in this fashion EVER as they are far too easy to overtighten. If you tourniquet somebodys hands or feet and they are crippled because of it you -will- get raked over the coals.

 

[03Shadowbob]

Ze,
A friend and I were surfing in Daytona years ago when we were 16. A fight started out on the beach as we were walking down the beach to get back to our starting spot. We were not involved in any way, just happened to be in the wrong spot at wrong time. It was a fairly large brawl and the cops were zip-tying everyone. My buddy got tied up with a very thin set of zipties which caused some damage to his tendons and circulation. Later that year he was driving a LandCruiser and had quite a bit of coin in the bank from a lawsuit.

And in regards to wearing a fake badge, it is absolutely pathetic. It is the worst idea I have heard of for a CCW'er. I would imagine the real cops would have a field day with someone in possession of one of these. If you want to wear a badge, earn that badge, don't buy it.

 

[mustanger98]

ZeSpectre, Thanks for the note on zip ties. I didn't realize the difference- and we must always consider the liability- and now I wonder how many others didn't realize it.

And in regards to wearing a fake badge, it is absolutely pathetic. It is the worst idea I have heard of for a CCW'er. I would imagine the real cops would have a field day with someone in possession of one of these. If you want to wear a badge, earn that badge, don't buy it.

03Shadowbob, I agree that fake badges are a bad idea. Now, what I've been doing is considering the difference between the legal situation regarding badges as it is now, vs. what if the laws were changed for whatever reason. As it stands, they're fake and they're a bad idea. If the law's changed or amended so a CCW holder had to carry one along with the permit card, such a badge would be issued by the state and wouldn't be fake. It'd be a whole different situation to what most posters are looking at. And while most posters have the idea that it's supposed to be pinned on their shirt as a uniformed officer's badge is, I don't beleive such would be the case. I don't have a dog in this hunt/fight either way, but there's ways it could work and plenty of ways for it to be a disaster.

I would carry a badge that says I am a CCW holder that says I carry a concealed weapon?????

GeorgiaGlocker, This is some of what I'm talking about... this is the way that don't make sense. If you're carrying concealed, you don't want anything on you that says you're carrying. Therefore, if a badge became part of the mandatory stuff, the badge would also have to remain concealed with the permit card and would very seldom be shown if ever. But, under the current legal situation, it's a very bad idea.

 

[Jeff White]

If the law's changed or amended so a CCW holder had to carry one along with the permit card, such a badge would be issued by the state and wouldn't be fake.

mustanger98,
Are you aware of any legislation anywhere that has proposed to do that? Have you ever heard a politician mention it? What could the possible benefit to society be?

A badge is just a piece of metal. Yes, an official one is an insignia of office. But without the paper that goes with it, it's just a piece of metal. What possible purpose would issuing one to a CCW holder serve?

Jeff

 

[Axman]

My good friend who is in the security business uses the double looped plastic restraints when his metal handcuffs are incapacitated.

 

[Sniper X]

Forgive me if it has been said in this thread but I can easliy see, in this arrest happy liberal world of ours here in the US some LEO arresting you for "impersonating an officer" even if you didn't try to pass yourself off as such.

Now a little story as to answer why I think that. I was in a mall, had my holster on but had the 1911 locked in a safe in the trunk. A kid walks by in a Police jacket, obviously was some punk kid, not a LEO. A security guard and a city cop are right behind him, remember, he is wearing an official Police jacket, but no badge. They walk by me and security wad sees my empty holster...nudges cop and they both get in my face asking why I am packing a gun...I point to my empty holster and ask where do you see a gun, and the cop says well I could arrest you for impersonating an officer. I say under what grounds and he tells me since i have a holster on people might think I am a cop. I look directly at him and say "What?" he says nothing further, and he and security gaurd go along their way. But, I stopped them and asked about the kid with the police jacket on and the cop says it is a "police" as in The Police, rock band jacket, not a Police as in LEO jacket.
What a looser and not a representive of most cops here in my area.

 

[mustanger98]

Jeff White:

mustanger98,
Are you aware of any legislation anywhere that has proposed to do that? Have you ever heard a politician mention it? What could the possible benefit to society be?

Are you aware of how goofy legislative bodies can be? While I'm not aware of any such legislation at the moment, if some legislators got the bug, I wouldn't put anything past them. I don't recall actually saying it would have that much benefit; only that I can only think of one way it wouldn't be a disaster if it were implemented.

A badge is just a piece of metal. Yes, an official one is an insignia of office. But without the paper that goes with it, it's just a piece of metal. What possible purpose would issuing one to a CCW holder serve?

A piece of metal unless accompanied by the paper. Right. We're not talking about turning private citizen CCWers into police as some wildly imagine. I sometimes wonder about the purpose of Wells Fargo agents carrying badges as I once read somewhere. The only possible purpose, were it legally mandated, is part of the ID system, but as someone else said, the cops have to determine whether it's the real deal or not. As I said, if it's not for real as it's not right now, then it's a very bad idea. If you don't remember me saying that, you need to re-read my previous posts.

 

[benEzra]

Just wear one of these instead...

http://www.onehorseshy.com/highbrow/grammar_police/


Seriously, I think CCW "badges" are a bad idea. Far better to get an ID holder and wear your actual CCW permit on your belt, if you thought it was that important. (I don't.)

 

[Jeff White]

mustanger98,

You've mentioned the legislature requiring CCW badges in a couple of threads. Would you personally support such legislation? If so, why?

Jeff

 

[mustanger98]

mustanger98,

You've mentioned the legislature requiring CCW badges in a couple of threads. Would you personally support such legislation? If so, why?

Jeff

I mentioned that as a hypothetical situation which would change the dynamic of the debate. I personally would not support it, but I also said I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm simply saying stick with the law as it is now, and if the law were to change, stick with the law. Does this clarify it?

 

[davhina]

Badges?

We don't need no stinkin' badges
Want a badge? Go to a LEO acadamy

 

[davhina]

All kidding aside..why would anyone that carries concealed, want a "badge" to show that they have a ccw? Concealed, means Concealed! Why would you want to advertise..HEY WORLD...I HAVE A GUN!! Look at my cool badge!

 

[JLStorm]

I have two thoughts:

1. I have carried for quite a while and occasionally I have flashed part of the holster or weapon while attempting to carry concealed, such as the wind blowing unexpectedly, or I moved in the wrong position etc. In all of these situation no one blinked an eye, and my belief is that they saw a high quality holster and thought cop and moved on.

I think if people see an IWB it looks like the bad guys in a movie tucking a gun in their pants, if they see a shoulder holster or OWB, in my experience, they assume you are just supposed to have the gun for one reason or another.

2. While I dont like the idea of badges, I do wish CCW permits were more standardized and easy to read so that they could be more easily identified by both local and out of state authorities now that reciprocity is growing. I know that most of the states that honor a FL CCW probably have never seen one...

 

[JLStorm]

One more thing to add...if you REALLY wanted a badge become a private investigator, bail enforcement officer, or private security/bodyguard lol. In most states none of this requires much if any training and they allow you to be armed and require some form of identification such as an ID card or badge issued by your company, so while they are probably more legal than a CCW badge because you arent impersonating anyone...you may ge bitch slapped and laughed quite a bit by an officer lol

 

[ezypikns]

And if a frog had wings,....

he wouldn't whomp his butt when he jumped.

If the law's changed or amended so a CCW holder had to carry one along with the permit card, such a badge would be issued by the state and wouldn't be fake.

 

[ZeSpectre]

While I dont like the idea of badges, I do wish CCW permits were more standardized and easy to read so that they could be more easily identified by both local and out of state authorities now that reciprocity is growing.

+1 there. You should see the Virginia permit. It's printed with an inkjet printer on a bit of light cardstock. I don't know if it would really hold up to even one humid VA summer day so I scanned mine in so I had a backup version and then I laminated it.

 

[seansean]

sniperstraz wrote:
I don't carry one, but I always thought it could be useful.
Here's the scenerio:
1. Your in the store and you reach for the top shelf, under your jacket OWB is your 1911. The little sheeple standing next to you sees it and freaks out. The sheeple then continues to call the police and cause you a delay in getting your ice cream home before it melts.
2. Your in the store and you reach for the top shelf, under your jacket OWB is your 1911. The sheeple standing next to you sees the gun and a badge of one sort or another. Assuming your a cop, the sheeple gives you a weak smile and continues on it's way. You go home and eat your (still frozen) ice cream.

Well, here's scenario 3: The sheeple isn't a sheeple, he's an off-duty cop, you reach up, he sees your gun, knows you're not a cop, draws down on your ass, and puts you on the floor face-first, sans whatever the hell you were reaching for. He cuffs you, calls for backup, puts you in a squad car, then, once they verify you're CCW, and if they're nice, they'll let you go, but only after pointing and laughing at you for awhile.

 

[Jeff White]

Well, here's scenario 3: The sheeple isn't a sheeple, he's an off-duty cop, you reach up, he sees your gun, knows you're not a cop, draws down on your ass, and puts you on the floor face-first, sans whatever the hell you were reaching for. He cuffs you, calls for backup, puts you in a squad car, then, once they verify you're CCW, and if they're nice, they'll let you go, but only after pointing and laughing at you for awhile.

Scenario 4: The sheeple isn't a sheeple, he's an off duty cop. You reach up, he sees your gun, thinks you're a brother officer and asks where you work. You answer, "I'm not a cop, I'm a CCW holder and I just display this badge next to my gun so the sheeple will think I'm a cop if they see my weapon and not cause me any trouble with the real cops." Off duty cop says; "Stop, don't move. Follow my instructions exactly, anything you do that I don't instruct you to do will be considered a hostile act and dealt with accordingly." as he draws his weapon. To the store clerk he says, "call 911 tell them an officer needs assistance at this address." The officer says "Now get down on your knees and put your hands behind your head, interlace your fingers. Cross your ankles." You wait in that rather uncomfortable position until the on duty officers arrive and you are arrested for impersonating a police officer. You go to jail. Since you were armed while you were impersonating an officer it's probably a felony, so you wait until the courthouse opens the next day to see the judge and have bail set. You don;t get to go to work the next morning because you're waiting to have bail set and bond out. The good criminal defense attorney you've hired wants a $5000.00 retainer. The good criminal defense attorney cuts a deal with the prosecutor that gives you probation, a large fine and court costs, you forfeit your weapon, lose your CCW permit and with the lower level felony conviction you lose your right to keep and bear arms forever. Your employer has fired you because of all the work you missed in court dates or because a convicted felon can't do that kind of work......

Jeff

 

[Zero_DgZ]

That's a leap off an awfully steep cliff of logic, there.

There are tons of scenarios that could go either way, but I'm going to lay odds that any cop that has some sort of freudian-driven problem about you having a CCW badge is far more likely to have a problem about you having a gun in the first place, even if it is legally carried.

 

[Jeff White]

No it's not a leap off of a steep cliff of logic. It's a fact. Police officers (and I know this because I am one) take a dim view of anyone trying to pass themselves off as one. And if you are trying to fool the unsuspecting public into thinking you're an officer by flashing tin, that is exactly what you are doing.

The officer is going to wonder what else is he using the badge for? Is he using it to convince his next rape victim to come with him quietly? Is he using it to intimindate people in the bar or a road rage incident?

I personally couldn't care less if someone is carrying a gun, with or without a permit as long as the person is not using it to commit a crime with, but I wouldn't hesitate to arrest someone who was trying to pass himself off as a police officer.

Jeff

 

[davhina]

Badges

I personally couldn't care less if someone is carrying a gun, with or without a permit as long as the person is not using it to commit a crime with, but I wouldn't hesitate to arrest someone who was trying to pass himself off as a police officer.

Well said Jeff. Time to close this one down.
Like I said before-Want a badge? Go to a LEO academy.
Concealed means just that. No one else knows.

For those that still feel the need for the mall ninja badge or ccw badge:
Go home. Put the gun away. Have a beer. Watch Dirty Harry re-runs. Go to sleep. Dream well.
Dave

 

[raytracer]

"Paging Walter Mitty. Walter Mitty to the white courtesy phone."

 

[davhina]

"Paging Walter Mitty. Walter Mitty to the white courtesy phone."

 

[mustanger98]

Re: Post# 120

Jeff White, I'm agreeing with you that this is why we don't need this. If you read my last post on this, I said we all need to stick with the law. We have a law against impersonating a police officer, so those of us who aren't shouldn't pass ourselves off as one. I'm a private citizen and I don't appreciate impersonators/posers either.

One point I was trying to make before is, regarding legislation I already said I wouldn't support if it did come up, if the law were changed and we all stuck with the law on the books, there's still a difference between impersonating and sticking with whatever's legal at the time.

This part is generally thinking on the whole of the thread... to this point of some cops (by no means all) who have a problem with private citizens being armed, I think most of that kind suffers from needing a badge to bolster their ego or a holier-than-thou syndrome. Some posters have already made that observation. I think if that type personality isn't much of a man without a badge, real or fake, we sure don't need 'em as cops. Seems to me a good cop will be the one who took the job because he wanted to make the world a better place. But that, to my mind, is something every good cop and every decent private citizen have in common. In that sense, no badge is required to care.

 

[Mannlicher]

I am sure someone has already said it, but that kind of crap is for mall ninjas.