Charles Daly Wants to Hear From You!
- Thread starter Charles Daly
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Charles Daly
Member
Jax, congratulations on your two new Daly's! Both 20 gauge semi's?
Hi Mike, I bought one 12 semi and 1 20 semi both at a Wal-Mart here in Jacksonville, FL. My wife expressed interest in shooting so instead of buying one nice CD I bought two entry level guns. They look really good and feel even better. For $314 each it is quite a deal!
Hello,
I think its great that you want to know what is happening in the real world with your firearms. I commend you on this.
Here is the only experience I have had with CD.
My father about 2 years ago now purchased a 12ga semi-automatic shotgun for Turkey Hunting. He is retired and doesnt have a ton of expendable cash. He purchased a it from Gallery of Guns with a Camo finish. We took it out and and shot some clay with it. I think he only got maybe 2 shells through it before it turned into a single shot. Needless to say he was dissapointed.
I told him to contact the factory but maybe its a generational thing ( lol ) I dont know but he said he didnt want to jump through all the hoops of that. ( I know from experience that some Customer Service departments do require lots of hoop jumping.)
He ended up going to a local gun shop and trading it for a Benelli pump.
I will admit that this has made me stray away from Charles Daily now because at one time I was considering one of your left hand shotguns as a back up.
Not trying to blast your company by any means. I uderstand any company can put out a firearm that has a problem. Heck I just spent 2k on a rifle and had to send it back to have work on it. But if we are being honest CD has a less than desireable reputaion atleast in my area and this one experience didnt do anything to help it in my eyes.
Good luck with your company and I really do commend you on seeking out this type of info. I am impressed.
I think its great that you want to know what is happening in the real world with your firearms. I commend you on this.
Here is the only experience I have had with CD.
My father about 2 years ago now purchased a 12ga semi-automatic shotgun for Turkey Hunting. He is retired and doesnt have a ton of expendable cash. He purchased a it from Gallery of Guns with a Camo finish. We took it out and and shot some clay with it. I think he only got maybe 2 shells through it before it turned into a single shot. Needless to say he was dissapointed.
I told him to contact the factory but maybe its a generational thing ( lol ) I dont know but he said he didnt want to jump through all the hoops of that. ( I know from experience that some Customer Service departments do require lots of hoop jumping.)
He ended up going to a local gun shop and trading it for a Benelli pump.
I will admit that this has made me stray away from Charles Daily now because at one time I was considering one of your left hand shotguns as a back up.
Not trying to blast your company by any means. I uderstand any company can put out a firearm that has a problem. Heck I just spent 2k on a rifle and had to send it back to have work on it. But if we are being honest CD has a less than desireable reputaion atleast in my area and this one experience didnt do anything to help it in my eyes.
Good luck with your company and I really do commend you on seeking out this type of info. I am impressed.
sturmgewehr
Member
I just wanted to say "welcome" to Michael too. It's great that you've stepped into the world of firearms forums.
I'm quite impressed with your dedication to quality and the reputation of your company. I look forward to seeing you around.
I'm quite impressed with your dedication to quality and the reputation of your company. I look forward to seeing you around.
sara bellum
Member
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2007
- Messages
- 41
demise of the CD Hi Power
I am sorry to see the CD Hi Power go. I own a CD Hi Power. I would have thought that the CD Hi Power, with its overall package and price, would have filled a key niche in the US in the same manner as the CD 1911s with their quality and unbeatable price ($300-400).
Some notable, quality firearms, have not caught on for reasons that are not entirely clear. Some examples are the Stoeger Cougar, FEG Hi Power, CZ 40 B, CZ 75 compact, etc.
I perceive that the Rock Island Armory (CD's manufacturer for 1911s) are a success in the US. Perhaps, CD can reassess the barriers to entry in lieu of examples of niche players like Rock Island Armory 1911s, that compete on different terrain than Colt, and Timex, which competes on different terrain from Seiko and Rolex (David B. Yoffie and Michael A. Cusumano. "Judo Strategy: The Competitive Dynamics of Internet Time." Harvard Business Review, January/February 1999).
I would hate to see the CD Hi Power go too hastily.
I am sorry to see the CD Hi Power go. I own a CD Hi Power. I would have thought that the CD Hi Power, with its overall package and price, would have filled a key niche in the US in the same manner as the CD 1911s with their quality and unbeatable price ($300-400).
Some notable, quality firearms, have not caught on for reasons that are not entirely clear. Some examples are the Stoeger Cougar, FEG Hi Power, CZ 40 B, CZ 75 compact, etc.
I perceive that the Rock Island Armory (CD's manufacturer for 1911s) are a success in the US. Perhaps, CD can reassess the barriers to entry in lieu of examples of niche players like Rock Island Armory 1911s, that compete on different terrain than Colt, and Timex, which competes on different terrain from Seiko and Rolex (David B. Yoffie and Michael A. Cusumano. "Judo Strategy: The Competitive Dynamics of Internet Time." Harvard Business Review, January/February 1999).
I would hate to see the CD Hi Power go too hastily.
Charles Daly
Member
sara bellum: We had to drop the HP from our line. Yes, it was a good seller but at the price that it did sell well we were losing our shirts.
Also, the FEG HP (PJK-9HP) did do very well for us from the mid-80's until mid 90's; (probably sold 100,000 of them over the years). Then the Warsaw Pact collapsed and prices rose. The Hungarians are good capitalists now but FEG is just about out of business.
And last but not least, RIA and CD 1911's are both made by Armscor. RIA does not "make" the CD 1911, they are made in the same factory as CD. I'm not sure what you mean by "...Perhaps, CD can reassess the barriers to entry..." . We have been selling our 1911 for about 8 years longer than RIA has been on the market.
juarez: congrats on your new EFS! Enjoy!
Also, the FEG HP (PJK-9HP) did do very well for us from the mid-80's until mid 90's; (probably sold 100,000 of them over the years). Then the Warsaw Pact collapsed and prices rose. The Hungarians are good capitalists now but FEG is just about out of business.
And last but not least, RIA and CD 1911's are both made by Armscor. RIA does not "make" the CD 1911, they are made in the same factory as CD. I'm not sure what you mean by "...Perhaps, CD can reassess the barriers to entry..." . We have been selling our 1911 for about 8 years longer than RIA has been on the market.
juarez: congrats on your new EFS! Enjoy!
sara bellum
Member
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2007
- Messages
- 41
barriers to entry
Hello Mike. Thanks for writing back. My barrier to entry observation was the barrier for Charles Daly into the Hi Power market with its own product, and not to the 1911. Charles Daly's 1911 entered the market successfully and could be a good model for the CD Hi Power.
According to Porter, the barrier to entry includes the “[l]earning or experience curve: in some businesses there is an observed tendency for unit costs to decline as the firm gains more cumulative experience in producing a product...Experience is just a name for certain kinds of technological change and may apply not only to production but also to distribution , logistics, and other functions.”
Another barrier to entry is the economy of scale or mass production at a very narrow profit margin.
An existing entity/firm (like Browning) can fight back against an entrant, like Charles Daly, by trying to slash prices and sell massive numbers of units.
Again according to Porter, in a competitive industry, a “[t]hreatened entity can fight the emerging industry (or competitor)...” by “foregoing profits by lowering prices…or making R&D investments aimed at making the threatened product or service more competitive…If the threatened industry chooses to invest to try to bring its quality- adjusted costs down, it is clear that the target at which learning and scale-related cost reduction in the emerging industry must shoot is a moving one.” Here, from the looks of it, the big players, Browning and FN were not able to fight back. FN tried to sell less expensive Hi Powers at the $400 range to block the new, economical Hi Powers from Charles Daly, Arcus, and FM Argentina.
I could be mistaken, but it looks like FN gave up trying to block Charles Daly's entry into the HP market. Arcus dropped out of the US HP market. Browning HAS NOT even tried to block Charles Daly by flooding the market with $300 Hi Powers. Browning sells Hi Powers for $800+. So, as Judo techniques in production go, Charles Daly created a niche for itself by selling those $300 Hi Powers, a terrain on which FN and Browning could not compete. Yes, I understand that selling Hi Powers at the $280 range is not profitable for Charles Daly. Note the silver lining- Charles Daly moved into that gulf between the the $325 FM Hi Power and the $800 Browning, establishing a foothold.
CZ-USA went through a similar learning curve period with its CZ75 and other variants at the $300 range in order to establish brand recognition and a niche. It achieved brand awareness. Today, the CZ family has been a success and those pistols sell for upward of $400.
What I mean to say is don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Once CD leaves the Hi Power market, the sole firm will be Browning-again- at $800, leaving a gap in the $300-$800 range.
If the FEG/KBI Hi Power was a success, when lower manufacturing was offered in Hungary, that and the Armscor 1911 experience might be road maps for future Hi Power production for Charles Daly.
Maybe, another reason for CD to drop the HP is to focus on more profitable market segments. That's understandable. I encourage CD to return to the HP market someday.
Hello Mike. Thanks for writing back. My barrier to entry observation was the barrier for Charles Daly into the Hi Power market with its own product, and not to the 1911. Charles Daly's 1911 entered the market successfully and could be a good model for the CD Hi Power.
According to Porter, the barrier to entry includes the “[l]earning or experience curve: in some businesses there is an observed tendency for unit costs to decline as the firm gains more cumulative experience in producing a product...Experience is just a name for certain kinds of technological change and may apply not only to production but also to distribution , logistics, and other functions.”
Another barrier to entry is the economy of scale or mass production at a very narrow profit margin.
An existing entity/firm (like Browning) can fight back against an entrant, like Charles Daly, by trying to slash prices and sell massive numbers of units.
Again according to Porter, in a competitive industry, a “[t]hreatened entity can fight the emerging industry (or competitor)...” by “foregoing profits by lowering prices…or making R&D investments aimed at making the threatened product or service more competitive…If the threatened industry chooses to invest to try to bring its quality- adjusted costs down, it is clear that the target at which learning and scale-related cost reduction in the emerging industry must shoot is a moving one.” Here, from the looks of it, the big players, Browning and FN were not able to fight back. FN tried to sell less expensive Hi Powers at the $400 range to block the new, economical Hi Powers from Charles Daly, Arcus, and FM Argentina.
I could be mistaken, but it looks like FN gave up trying to block Charles Daly's entry into the HP market. Arcus dropped out of the US HP market. Browning HAS NOT even tried to block Charles Daly by flooding the market with $300 Hi Powers. Browning sells Hi Powers for $800+. So, as Judo techniques in production go, Charles Daly created a niche for itself by selling those $300 Hi Powers, a terrain on which FN and Browning could not compete. Yes, I understand that selling Hi Powers at the $280 range is not profitable for Charles Daly. Note the silver lining- Charles Daly moved into that gulf between the the $325 FM Hi Power and the $800 Browning, establishing a foothold.
CZ-USA went through a similar learning curve period with its CZ75 and other variants at the $300 range in order to establish brand recognition and a niche. It achieved brand awareness. Today, the CZ family has been a success and those pistols sell for upward of $400.
What I mean to say is don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Once CD leaves the Hi Power market, the sole firm will be Browning-again- at $800, leaving a gap in the $300-$800 range.
If the FEG/KBI Hi Power was a success, when lower manufacturing was offered in Hungary, that and the Armscor 1911 experience might be road maps for future Hi Power production for Charles Daly.
Maybe, another reason for CD to drop the HP is to focus on more profitable market segments. That's understandable. I encourage CD to return to the HP market someday.
Last edited:
loop
Member
Hi Mike,
I've not posted in this thread, but want to do so because I'd like to let you know the BUL M5 is the finest off-the-shelf .45 I've ever shot. More than a decade ago a part of my job as a scribe was reviewing firearms. I was handed an M5 and a case of Speer ammo and told to "have fun."
CD was not the importer at the time, but the gun has not changed much. The first mag tore one big hole at 25 yards. In the 500-round case there was never any kind of failure (although my thumbs failed several times trying to cram in the last couple rounds in the mags).
I eventually ended up shooting at 25-yard NRA targets at 100 yards and keeping every shot in the circles. It was so accurate and reliable it was almost boring.
The downside was I could not keep the gun. I even offered to pay full retail price for it to the importer. They made me send it back. Since then I've been looking for another M5. I've only run across two. One was not for sale and another was at a gun show after I'd spent all my "toy" allowance.
These days I'm the editor of a regional business magazine in an incredibly red locale. Around here if it ain't American it ain't no good. Consequently I never see an M5.
We had a gun show here this past weekend and the wife gave me the green light to buy whatever I wanted. I determined if there wasn't a .45 that fit a barrel-length, grip-size, capacity, et al, niche that is left open in my collection I'd buy a BUL on the net when I got home.
It's tough to find a niche-gun for me in .45acp but I did. I came home and dropped more on upgrade parts on the net than I did on the gun.
That said, the niche of the M5 will be open until I finally get my hands on one I can call my own. Even now it may take a while. I have a bid in on a CD Empire Grade on Gunbroker right now.
My rambling post comes down to a couple things. I'm a .45 guy. CD has done some great things for us .45 guys. Keep up the good work.
And don't lose the contract with the BUL. Your company is a great importer and does a terrific job in terms of customer support.
If you ever need somebody to wring out a BUL...
I've shot the best .45s in the world, but one stands out above them all.
Pity the U.S. market doesn't know it's just a high-cap Kimber with better internals.
I've not posted in this thread, but want to do so because I'd like to let you know the BUL M5 is the finest off-the-shelf .45 I've ever shot. More than a decade ago a part of my job as a scribe was reviewing firearms. I was handed an M5 and a case of Speer ammo and told to "have fun."
CD was not the importer at the time, but the gun has not changed much. The first mag tore one big hole at 25 yards. In the 500-round case there was never any kind of failure (although my thumbs failed several times trying to cram in the last couple rounds in the mags).
I eventually ended up shooting at 25-yard NRA targets at 100 yards and keeping every shot in the circles. It was so accurate and reliable it was almost boring.
The downside was I could not keep the gun. I even offered to pay full retail price for it to the importer. They made me send it back. Since then I've been looking for another M5. I've only run across two. One was not for sale and another was at a gun show after I'd spent all my "toy" allowance.
These days I'm the editor of a regional business magazine in an incredibly red locale. Around here if it ain't American it ain't no good. Consequently I never see an M5.
We had a gun show here this past weekend and the wife gave me the green light to buy whatever I wanted. I determined if there wasn't a .45 that fit a barrel-length, grip-size, capacity, et al, niche that is left open in my collection I'd buy a BUL on the net when I got home.
It's tough to find a niche-gun for me in .45acp but I did. I came home and dropped more on upgrade parts on the net than I did on the gun.
That said, the niche of the M5 will be open until I finally get my hands on one I can call my own. Even now it may take a while. I have a bid in on a CD Empire Grade on Gunbroker right now.
My rambling post comes down to a couple things. I'm a .45 guy. CD has done some great things for us .45 guys. Keep up the good work.
And don't lose the contract with the BUL. Your company is a great importer and does a terrific job in terms of customer support.
If you ever need somebody to wring out a BUL...
I've shot the best .45s in the world, but one stands out above them all.
Pity the U.S. market doesn't know it's just a high-cap Kimber with better internals.
Okiecruffler
Member
Man, it took some intestinal fortitude for you to come on a forum this size and basically say "tell me what we've done wrong". Too bad all companies don't do this, I can think of several who could use a little PR boost.
I only own one CD, an EFS. I was looking for a 1911 a while back because I had never owned one. I had a list of add-ons I was going to do, but when I came across the CD, it already had most of them. And the price was more than attractive. I bought this pistol only so I could play with a 1911, but after shooting it for awhile I liked it well enough that it became my carry gun. I did have a bit of problem at first getting it to feed my cast SWC reloads, but a quick spring change fixed that. My only real complaint is the finish. I started noticing muzzle wear almost immediately, much quicker than any other pistol I've carried. Still not much of a complaint, I bought it to carry, not put in a display case. It has over 5K rounds thru it now. I've gone to a smaller carry gun, but it still does nightstand duty.
So kudoes for coming aboard.
And as long as everyone is adding to the wish list, how about a good bolt action pistol to take the place of the discontinued XP and Strikers?
I only own one CD, an EFS. I was looking for a 1911 a while back because I had never owned one. I had a list of add-ons I was going to do, but when I came across the CD, it already had most of them. And the price was more than attractive. I bought this pistol only so I could play with a 1911, but after shooting it for awhile I liked it well enough that it became my carry gun. I did have a bit of problem at first getting it to feed my cast SWC reloads, but a quick spring change fixed that. My only real complaint is the finish. I started noticing muzzle wear almost immediately, much quicker than any other pistol I've carried. Still not much of a complaint, I bought it to carry, not put in a display case. It has over 5K rounds thru it now. I've gone to a smaller carry gun, but it still does nightstand duty.
So kudoes for coming aboard.
And as long as everyone is adding to the wish list, how about a good bolt action pistol to take the place of the discontinued XP and Strikers?
I had not heard the CD was dropping the HP from its line. Ever since Mike came on the baord I have been checking out articles on the CD HP and it seems like a fantastic gun.
Sigh.....This means that I have to secure one soon before prices go up
Sigh.....This means that I have to secure one soon before prices go up
Henry Bowman
Senior Member
Mr. Kassnar: Nice to have met you at SHOT Show (late in the day on Tues.).
Charles Daly
Member
Ford: Sorry to hear about your father's experience with one of our semi-autos. I only wish he would have contacted our Service Department and given us a chance to make it right. We are improving in that area all the time and I like to think that we have the fewest hoops to jump through of any firearms company. Toll-free number and FedEx Call Tags so a return to us won't cost the consumer a penny. Perhaps you will give us another opportunity some day.
Sara, loop and Okie: thanks for your encouraging posts.
Henry: Nice to have met you also. Thanks for coming by the booth.
Jax: The first AR's should be out in early March. We had a short delay due to marking issues. Just waiting for the annodizer to finish and then we are on our way.
Sara, loop and Okie: thanks for your encouraging posts.
Henry: Nice to have met you also. Thanks for coming by the booth.
Jax: The first AR's should be out in early March. We had a short delay due to marking issues. Just waiting for the annodizer to finish and then we are on our way.
Warren
Member
Mr. Kassnar,
On your current website you have 17 1911 models listed but there are only 8 on the California Drop test roster.
Are you planning to add more guns to the roster, stay the same or reduce the number of guns on the roster?
Thank you.
On your current website you have 17 1911 models listed but there are only 8 on the California Drop test roster.
Are you planning to add more guns to the roster, stay the same or reduce the number of guns on the roster?
Thank you.
Hunter0924
Member
Mr. Kassnar I was glad to have met you Saturday at the SHOT show and get some good pictures of your firearms, Hunter.
JasonblkZ06
Member
Mr. Kassnar,
I own almost every major firearm brand except yours and would be interested in a hi-cap full size 1911 with a rail. Do you have plans on manufacturing this type of 1911?
I own almost every major firearm brand except yours and would be interested in a hi-cap full size 1911 with a rail. Do you have plans on manufacturing this type of 1911?
35Rem
Member
I just purchased a Field Auto 20 gauge Automatic due in large part to this post.
Thank you, and I hope I really enjoy it.
Thank you, and I hope I really enjoy it.
Just so that people know, I have had some issues with CD's warrenty dept, regarding my CD HP.
It went on for almost 2 months, and after contacting Mike last week, issues were resolved in 2 days. I'm a happy camper now.
With that being said, I'm sad to see that CD HP is no longer.
I think it was one heck of bang for buck, and loved the idea of American made Hi-Power 9mm.
So I do have few small question for mike.
I want to look for tritium sight for my CD HP. Since I sort of like XS sight as combat sight, i like to stick with them. Do you know if XS has drop in sight for CD HP (i looked their site with no avail. But I figure since they make one as OEM sights, they would have one that fits?)
It went on for almost 2 months, and after contacting Mike last week, issues were resolved in 2 days. I'm a happy camper now.
With that being said, I'm sad to see that CD HP is no longer.
I think it was one heck of bang for buck, and loved the idea of American made Hi-Power 9mm.
So I do have few small question for mike.
I want to look for tritium sight for my CD HP. Since I sort of like XS sight as combat sight, i like to stick with them. Do you know if XS has drop in sight for CD HP (i looked their site with no avail. But I figure since they make one as OEM sights, they would have one that fits?)
Hello everyone!
I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised to get a spare part from Michael for my CD gun that needed service. I am even more pleasantly surprised by the fact that Michael disassembled one of his own guns to get me the needed spare part. Very impressive.
When I'm wrong, I'm wrong... I have to admit that the frustration and dissatisfaction in my previous dealings (or attempts at) with CD's customer service had wrongly influenced my opinion about Mr. Kassnar's sincerity in efforts to make things right.
Thank you for making things right by me. I do believe that you are sincere and I honestly hope that you suceed!
After dealing with you directly I have to admit that I would not have any reservations about buying a CD product.
On that note I might have some suggestions (I'll e-mail you about that) if you want to hear them.
Thank you again, Michael.
I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised to get a spare part from Michael for my CD gun that needed service. I am even more pleasantly surprised by the fact that Michael disassembled one of his own guns to get me the needed spare part. Very impressive.
When I'm wrong, I'm wrong... I have to admit that the frustration and dissatisfaction in my previous dealings (or attempts at) with CD's customer service had wrongly influenced my opinion about Mr. Kassnar's sincerity in efforts to make things right.
Thank you for making things right by me. I do believe that you are sincere and I honestly hope that you suceed!
After dealing with you directly I have to admit that I would not have any reservations about buying a CD product.
On that note I might have some suggestions (I'll e-mail you about that) if you want to hear them.
Thank you again, Michael.
solvability
Member
I received the CD HiPower that I ordered from CDNN and was quite pleased - among other things the slide to frame fit was better than on any Browning that I have ever had (several) shoots nice groups. I am sorry that model is being closed out, but will look forward to buying other CDs in the future.
happy cd owner
Mr. Kassner
I just got my cd 1911 A-1 back from your shop thursday. The repairs seem to be complete and well. I sent it out on the 11th and recieved it back on the 18th. I must say that was quite expedient! I will begin to reccomend your firearms to all that I meet. Thank you again for your service.
Can't wait to go shooting this weekend
Lawrence A. Warner
"Larry"
Mr. Kassner
I just got my cd 1911 A-1 back from your shop thursday. The repairs seem to be complete and well. I sent it out on the 11th and recieved it back on the 18th. I must say that was quite expedient! I will begin to reccomend your firearms to all that I meet. Thank you again for your service.
Can't wait to go shooting this weekend
Lawrence A. Warner
"Larry"
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