Chicago Priest Calls for Murder of Gun Shop Owner

[RancidSumo]

Lets see, guy with a lot of guns and ammo against a bunch of freaks trying to break in and kill him. I wonder who would win....

 

[Nanook]

I don't remember Pfleger adopting any kids, there is another priest whose name I don't remember, who has adopted three sons. Clements, maybe?

The other priest is a black man, who has adopted three black children and tried to raise them correctly. There was a recent story about this priest and his sons on the news. They are all adults now, and doing well.

I can't picture Pfleger taking the time away from the cameras to raise a family. I could be wrong, though.

 

[Ratzinger_p38]

I love that word 'neocon'. It almost reminds me of 'nazi'. Seems that word flows so easily these days...neocon...neocon...neocon...

except that neocon has a real meaning, not just stand in for someone you dont like like Nazi has become.

 

[Dave Workman]

file:///Users/davew/Desktop/OP-ED_Chicago_gun_turn-in.htm


This may interest you. When I called Fr. Pfleger's office Tuesday for an interview, I had forgotten this earlier encounter.

Here's a teaser:

"Chicago’s Rev. Michael Pfleger – a man I’ve never personally met, but spoken with on the phone – is either a remarkably good and forgiving person, or a hypocrite of monumental proportions. You be the judge.

"Pfleger is spearheading a gun turn-in project supported by the Clergy for Safer Streets involving some 50 religious leaders in the Windy City. They’ve asked private citizens to turn in guns – anonymously, of course – which are subsequently handed over to the Chicago Police Department’s CAGE (Chicago Anti-Gun Enforcement) unit. Similar efforts in other communities have always gotten lots of publicity as model programs to reduce violence. Studies show, however, that such gun turn-ins have no impact on crime rates..."

 

[Prince Yamato]

The thing many non-Catholics don't realize is that the modern Roman Catholic Church (so as to distinguish from the Byzantine, Assyrian, and other Rites), basically splits into liberal and conservative parishes. Sometimes you can tell by the religious group that runs the church. Jesuits and Holy Cross, for example, are often more socialist- actually, a couple are downright communist. Basilians tend to be more conservative. Many Catholics (myself included) are sick of people like this priest who attempt to liberalize the church and ally themselves with leaders like Jesse Jackson and Lewis Farahkahn (listed on the church's website). Black Catholic Churches like St. Sabinas are rare and unfortunately, here we have the case of a church whose initial mission was to help poor inner-city black people and instead got co-opted by a do-goody white liberal. The trouble is that these people often corrupt papal messages. A big one I notice is the late Pope John Paul II's "culture of life". Initially, this was basically anti-abortion and anti-abuse of the death penalty (basically, aimed at China, who was executing people for things like tax evasion and sneezing in public). Somewhere along the lines the liberals come in and start saying warping this to suit their own motives, bastardize it a little and you get this Father Pfleger going on against guns. He doesn't really address the problem or promote a culture of life. He's not getting the gang members to "see the light" or anything like that, he's just telling them to stab each other instead of shoot each other. Not a very good Catholic if you ask me.

 

[Slinger]

Just a note of interest. I spent many hours in Chuck's Gun Shop when I lived on the South Side. I knew John Riggio, the owner mentioned in the article. John was a stand up guy who got me started on shooting and reloading. For this I thank him. I knew him to be a stickler for rules and regulations (which are many when you own a gun shop in Illinois).

 

[gaston_45]

"But I'm sure that many priests are not slobbering hypocrites -- I suspect that some priests out West still carry (can anyone confirm?)"

yhtomit, were you thinking of this priest?

http://www.kgw.com/sharedcontent/no...30shootingsports_pistolpreachAL.21bc0c76.html

 

[Aguila Blanca]

What this guy yaps about isn't the Catholic faith I know about. While I concede that there's an anti-gun streak among many Catholic clergy (goes with pacifism some say), calling for snuffing out gun stores isn't very Catholic.

It certainly isn't. It is, in fact, contrary to Catholic teaching not only because it advocates murder, which is one of the major sins, but also because it runs counter to a tenet of the catechism:

Part 3, Section II, Chapter 2, Article V, Paragraphs 2264-2265 of the "Official Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church" ... "Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one's own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow, since one is bound to take more care of one's own life than of another's. Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another's life, the common good of the family or of the community."

 

[Autolycus]

Next time anybody tells me that Christianity is the religion of turning the other cheek I will know they are lying.

 

[springmom]

Will you all PLEASE knock off the Christian bashing!?!?!?!?!

This guy is a kook. He is a media monger, an extremist of the worst sort. He would be that way if he wasn't a priest, would be that way if he wasn't even a Christian. He's using that for a forum for his own peculiar craziness. But I'm sick unto death of reading anti-Christian or anti-Muslim garbage on this forum. Y'all who are atheists or agnostics, you are more than welcome to your opinions. But you'd get your knickers in a twist quick enough if somebody opined that the REASON somebody was threatening another person was that they were a godless atheist. Christianity has nothing whatsoever in common with this loony's ranting.

Springmom

 

[trueblue1776]

It's great how extremists are the only ones affiliated with religion anymore...

Perhaps most people of faith just happily blend into society, kinda like gun owners.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Nanook--

I just double checked and he has 3 kids. I did mispeak about 'Joey'--that was the boy adopted by Fr. Clements.

His bio is here: www.saintsabina.org/aboutus/pastor/pastorsbio.htm

 

[Selfdfenz]

springmom

Discussions regarding religion are one of the banned-topics on The High Road unless something changed during one of the outages.

I do believe the good Father is a nut job but I find it extremely disappointing something very close to hate speech regarding faith in general is very much allowed and the long-arm-of-moderator-law is no where to be seen.

How, having pointed out the elephant so long ignored in our midst, I await my excommunication from THR in the best of spirits.

It’s been real, but, good-by says it all.

S-

 

[Byron Quick]

Listen up, folks. It's OK to talk about what the priest did do and it's OK to discuss how this does or does not follow his purported religion.

It's not OK to use his actions as an excuse to attack that religion.

If you can see that difference then act upon it. If you cannot see that difference then the moderators will be acting upon you.

I know a Catholic priest who not only carries but part of his work as a pastor is training disabled people to shoot, acquire proper firearms they are able to use effectively, and to carry for the purpose of self defense. I've bought firearms from this priest as well as one of his 'spare' gun safes. And he's a combat veteran from the days before his entry into the priesthood.

In any event, those of you who feel the need to bash an entire religion on the basis of the actions of one priest out of hundreds of thousands need to shut up right now or ye shall be cast into the outer darkness.

 

[Don Gwinn]

I know the guy's a priest (or whatever) but keep the religion out of it from here on out or we'll have to close this.

 

[bsf]

Will you all PLEASE knock off the Christian bashing!?!?!?!?!

This guy is a kook. He is a media monger, an extremist of the worst sort. He would be that way if he wasn't a priest, would be that way if he wasn't even a Christian. He's using that for a forum for his own peculiar craziness. But I'm sick unto death of reading anti-Christian or anti-Muslim garbage on this forum. Y'all who are atheists or agnostics, you are more than welcome to your opinions. But you'd get your knickers in a twist quick enough if somebody opined that the REASON somebody was threatening another person was that they were a godless atheist. Christianity has nothing whatsoever in common with this loony's ranting.

Springmom

I was raised Roman Catholic. The Roman Catholic Church is one of the largest, if not the largest, charitable organization in the world. It does some really good work. Now, understand, the Church is the people who belong to it. All do not think alike, obviously. All that being said, it seems US clergy as a whole tends to be anti-RKBA. This is not debatable. I remember clearly the Catholic Conference in my state coming out against CCW reform in early 2001 when we were pushing to become “shall issue”.

http://www.micatholicconference.org/pdf/focus/focus_200101-ConcealedWeaponLaw.pdf

The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops is similarly anti-RKBA. It has repeatedly voiced support for “assault weapons” bans. It goes further than that, though.

On November 15, 2000, the US Conference issued “Responsibility, Rehabilitation, and Restoration: A Catholic Perspective on Crime and Criminal Justice”. It contains the following statement.

However, we believe that in the long run and with few exceptions (i.e., police officers, military use), handguns should be eliminated from our society. "Furthermore, the widespread use of handguns and automatic weapons in connection with drug commerce reinforces our repeated ‘call for effective and courageous action to control handguns, leading to their eventual elimination from our society.'" U.S. Catholic Bishops, New Slavery, New Freedom: A Pastoral Message on Substance Abuse (Washington, D.C.: United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, 1990), 10.

If that is not a 2x4 over the head, I do not know what else can be done to get your attention. This anti-RKBA stance makes me want to vomit. Since I will never agree with the Church on this, I guess I am a bad Catholic. Whatever. I have a brain stuffed in my skull, and have the ability to think for myself.

Oh, concerning that priest in Chicago, as bad as the Catholic Church is concerning RKBA, that guy is way off the reservation.

ETA
I was composing this while the moderators posted. I am not going to retract this post. It is the truth, and I hope people will be able to handle it.

 

[Redneck with a 40]

If I were that gun store owner, I would have stood at the front door with a loaded 357 on my hip. That would have sent the message loud and clear.

Not exactly the brightest move, threatening violence against a gun store owner. What an idiot.

 

[Prince Yamato]

The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops is similarly anti-RKBA. It has repeatedly voiced support for “assault weapons” bans.

Much of this though, goes with younger clergy, especially bishops trying to appeal to a young and "hip" crowd. They're usually about 10 years behind the trends (which is why "contemporary" Catholic music sounds like grunge) and low and behold, 10 years after the anti-AW stuff starts (~1989 with the import ban), here comes the crap tacked on to the culture of life. Honest to God, it's the liberals in the Church. Just like the liberals in politics try to attach their views (anti-RKBA) to bills, so do individual bishops try to get their diocese to act according to their liberal values. Of course the same group you list also invidually rates movies and is so stringent they give Charolotte's Web like an A-IV for extreme questionable moral content (no, not really, but for a real hoot, visit their website). I view their proclamations on many issues as a general source of humor. Unfortunately, many of my fellow Catholics hang on their every word and can't smell crap when it comes their way. Defense and preservation of life are part of the culture of life, I would assume AWs and pistols play a big part in that. Actually, I've been waiting for a discussion on Catholics and gun ownership as for the life of me, I can't really find Catholics coming out and saying "woo-hoo, let's repeal the '86 machinegun ban" well, with the exception of me, who is Catholic... and loves AWs and Class 3 stuff

 

[illspirit]

Somebody should tell Pfleger about Saint Gabriel Possenti.

But, yea, it's amazing how antis always say we are the violent nuts, but then go and say things like this. It's often been argued that they're just projecting their hate and rage onto us. This is just another example we can use to illustrate that. Maybe we should send him a thank you note for proving our point.

 

[Mongo the Mutterer]

Somebody should tell Pfleger about Saint Gabriel Possenti.

Wow. Great story on Saint Gabriel.. (Wonder what he could have done with a 1911... Poor lizards...)

 

[Deanimator]

Of course the same group you list also invidually rates movies and is so stringent they give Charolotte's Web like an A-IV for extreme questionable moral content (no, not really, but for a real hoot, visit their website).

When I was going to Cathlic seminary in Chicago, I used to look up the Catholic movie reviews and go to the ones that were condemned. That's how I ended up seeing the greatest martial arts film of all time, "The Streetfighter" starring Sonny Chiba!

 

[jselvy]

Isn't publicly calling for the murder of anyone and gathering a group of people to hear this "incitement to riot" under the law?

 

[plexreticle]

If I were that gun store owner, I would have stood at the front door with a loaded 357 on my hip. That would have sent the message loud and clear.

Not exactly the brightest move, threatening violence against a gun store owner. What an idiot.

Amen to that. Me and a bunch of my friends.

 

[30 cal slob]

well, this is interesting:

http://www.expertclick.com/NewsReleaseWire/default.cfm?Action=ReleaseDetail&ID=12793

Arlington, VA 22202 June 6 2006


Gun law expert urges American firearm owners in Catholic Church to send Vatican tough self-defense life message

​

“Law-abiding Catholic firearm owners in the United States should let Church officials know in no uncertain terms that hierarchical opposition to gun rights and the use of firearms to defend life from violent criminal attack simply will not be tolerated,” says gun law expert John M. Snyder.

“Gun owners can do this by depositing spent cartridge casings as well as St. Gabriel Possenti Society, Inc. coupons in church collection baskets,” he continues. “The Society honors a nineteenth century Saint who used handguns to rescue Italian villagers from a gang of terrorizing renegade soldiers.

“We send politicians unmistakable messages at the ballot box. Anti-gun church officials can get the same treatment at the collection box! Actually, pro-gun church goers of various religious denominations can do the same thing with these coupons if they believe their officials are taking anti-gun positions.”

Pictured here in reduced size, the coupons may be downloaded in full size and printed from www.gunsaint.com.

Following is Snyder’s explanation for the initiative.

In about a month, just before the Fourth of July celebration of American Independence Day, the Catholic Bishops in the United States plan to ask Catholic parishioners for contributions to the Peter’s Pence collection, a special annual solicitation to support the Vatican. The Vatican observer to the United Nations, Archbishop Celestino Migliore, is an outspoken supporter of a UN Program of Action for international gun control. If adopted and implemented, this Program would undermine the individual Second Amendment civil right of law-abiding American citizens to keep and bear arms for defense of life and other legitimate purposes.

A UN Conference on the Program meets in New York June 26 – July 7. These international gun grabbers are meeting in the United States to promote the disarming of Americans during America’s top patriotic holiday! And the Vatican’s top man at the UN is party to this insult! And the American Bishops are asking American Catholic gun owners to support this travesty of our heritage! What an outrage!

Also, what hypocrisy! Officials of the Catholic Church, allegedly a paramount defender of the right to life, working to undermine the practical ability of people to use necessary instruments of force for defense of life! And this at a time when citizens ought to be able to defend themselves against terrorists as well as other violent criminals!

Although it pains me, as a life long practicing Catholic, to feel impelled to criticize Church officials, the evidence indicates they truly deserve it. They must be set straight. While most priests likely do not fall on the dark side of things, and while a number of them, perhaps even a bishop or two here and there, solid and committed servants of the Lord, truly believe in the right to life and the concomitant right to defend life and the necessary right to the means thereto, the unfortunate fact is that a lot of them really do appear to fall on the dark side.

The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, for instance, wants to ban private handgun possession. Just a couple of years ago, the Archbishop of Washington, now retiring Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, opposed publicly a congressional move to eliminate a ban on the acquisition of handguns by private citizens of the District of Columbia. In a flagrant example of anti-gun owner social bigotry, McCarrick prohibited a local parish from accepting charitable funding garnered from a competitive Father’s Day shooting event sponsored by the Catholic Sportsmen’s Organization.

Catholic bishops are undermining the rights of Catholics and others in the United States. It’s not enough that they’ve destroyed tragically their own collective moral credibility by their obtuse mishandling of the ongoing clerical molestation scandal. They’re also trying to undermine the American Second Amendment.

What abominations have been perpetrated on millions of American Catholic and other gun owners by American Catholic bishops! It’s time to sock it to these characters, to hit them hard where it hurts, in their pocket book, and in the name of St. Gabriel Possenti, truly a holy handgun hero!

#

John Snyder ([email protected])
Manager
Telum Associates, LLC
PO Box 2844
Arlington, VA 22202
Phone : 703-212-9863
Fax : 703-212-9862

 

[30 cal slob]

yowsa. a gun saint.

"Every gun is sacred,
Every gun is great
If a gun is wasted,
God gets quite irate"​