Concealed Handgun Licensee Stops Philadelphia Hospital Shooting

[MagnumDweeb]

If you want a laugh at absurdity you should have read democraticundergrounds postings. They are an anti-American bunch that seems hell bent on seeing being raped and murdered, in my opinion. Some of the posts noted that the pro-gun crowd would make an issue out of the fact the doctor had a gun and stopped a possibly rampage killing.

Antis hate it when lives are saved by those acting in self-defense. In my opinion they are like Hamas, the more the dead innocent civilians the better.

 

[we are not amused]

I wonder if the silly people, on this site, wno do not see a problem with stores and other places, which post no gun signs, might rethink their position?

Too many silly people have posted that they feel as safe in a gun free zone as they do where they can carry, and do not believe that concealed carry can reduce crime despite mulligan studies showing otherwise.

If this doctor had obeyed the gun free zone, he would almost certainly been killed, and we would be under attack by the anti gunners because of another mass shooting.

Gun free zones kill!

Still feel safe when you are in a gun free zone?

 

[we are not amused]

If you want a laugh at absurdity you should have read democraticundergrounds postings. They are an anti-American bunch that seems hell bent on seeing being raped and murdered, in my opinion. Some of the posts noted that the pro-gun crowd would make an issue out of the fact the doctor had a gun and stopped a possibly rampage killing.

Antis hate it when lives are saved by those acting in self-defense. In my opinion they are like Hamas, the more the dead innocent civilians the better.

Ah! The unliberal Left!

I used to follow the threads on DU, AKA Dummies Underground, till I realized they were driving me insane with their insanity and hate. Reading their site makes it really easy to remember why the KKĶ was formed by the Progressive wing of the Democratic Party.

And yes, they do revel in death and destruction, if they can use it to their political advantage!

 

[HexHead]

Reading their site makes it really easy to remember why the KKĶ was formed by the Progressive wing of the Democratic Party.

It was a very different Democratic Party back then.

 

[Tom609]

A statement from the hospital...

A Mercy Fitzgerald Health Systems spokesman said Thursday it was against hospital policy for anyone other than "on-duty law enforcement" to carry weapons but a subsequent statement from a Mercy spokeswoman yesterday said, "We look forward to Dr. Silverman's return to serving patients at our hospital."

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/2...offended_by_hospital_s__gun-free__policy.html

 

[Sol]

Ah! The unliberal Left!

I used to follow the threads on DU, AKA Dummies Underground, till I realized they were driving me insane with their insanity and hate. Reading their site makes it really easy to remember why the KKĶ was formed by the Progressive wing of the Democratic Party.

And yes, they do revel in death and destruction, if they can use it to their political advantage!

The new "hot topic" group is the "Social Justice Warriors", if you google it, prepare for a good laugh. I advise empty bladder and no drinks around.

Anyways, I'm curious if the shooter was under a firearms disability.
Not that it would have stopped this event anyways.

Also, good on the doctor, all heroics aside, for what appears to be job retention

 

[tcoz]

A statement from the hospital...

A Mercy Fitzgerald Health Systems spokesman said Thursday it was against hospital policy for anyone other than "on-duty law enforcement" to carry weapons but a subsequent statement from a Mercy spokeswoman yesterday said, "We look forward to Dr. Silverman's return to serving patients at our hospital."

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/2...offended_by_hospital_s__gun-free__policy.html

It was great to read the hospital statement regarding Dr. Silverman's return. Unfortunately, some people will call this hypocritical. It seems that the hospital will almost be forced to make some kind of change in their policy. Maybe authorizing concealed carry for certain TRAINED staff? What does everyone think?

 

[Sam1911]

I think they will HOPE that they can get by making no further statement or change. They can still terminate your employment for violating policy, and they'll still be mighty grateful if you happen to stop a mass killing. There's nothing that says their policy must be perfectly consistent or logical, unless an employee can bring suit against them for wrongful termination or some such thing, and point to Dr. Silverman as an example of unequal treatment. They probably have clauses in their employment contracts or handbook that say that failure to enforce a policy in some instance does not negate their right to do so in other instances.

 

[tcoz]

I agree with Sam1911 but I don't think their lawyers will just let it go. IMO, it's only a matter of time before a disgruntled employee takes them to court for inconsistent enforcement of a policy.

 

[mike28w]

Oh, I expect that the hospital will be all "smiley" about the doc ....until the public's attention goes to the next topic.....

I'd bet $50 that the doc isn't there in 12 months..... for some other reason , of course......

That's how hospitals work. They will just make his life so miserable with scheduling or charting demands or other stuff that he will just move on......

 

[barnbwt]

Is the good doctor gonna keep carrying, you think?

TCB

 

[Mooseman]

Originally Posted by Tom609
A statement from the hospital...

A Mercy Fitzgerald Health Systems spokesman said Thursday it was against hospital policy for anyone other than "on-duty law enforcement" to carry weapons but a subsequent statement from a Mercy spokeswoman yesterday said, "We look forward to Dr. Silverman's return to serving patients at our hospital."

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20...e__policy.html

I think they have to say something to this effect for their liability insurance.

 

[seeker_two]

Doctors can afford better lawyers than can 7-11 clerks and pizza delivery drivers.....

 

[BSA1]

Don't confuse the anti-gun policy of the AMA with the individual attitudes of Doctors.

There are more Doctors than a lot of you might think that are pro-gun and in fact carry a handgun. They fully realize that they are targets by criminals, upset patients and their families.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Pittsburgh VA healthcare system; Pittsburgh PA.....

In the late 1990s, I had a temporary federal position in the US Dept of Veterans Affairs/VA Medical Center. I worked in the VA Police & Security Service(the title has since changed).
Weapons & concealed firearms were not allowed but veterans & visitors could secure guns/knives/ammunition in secured containers in the police office.
This VA mandate/SOP applied to sworn LE officers & on duty personnel too but few cops ever followed it.
Most of the VA police officers(083) & security staff didn't make a big deal over it but it was the formal policy.

RS

 

[amanda]

lefties

I was telling my friend at work about this story this past week and her immediate response was to talk about gun control. She just doesn't get it.

I'd bet the doc gets canned sooner or later but under another guise so that the hospital doesn't get bad press over it.

It's a shame because I was just thinking... there is someone you can trust with your life.

 

[CLP]

Don't confuse the anti-gun policy of the AMA with the individual attitudes of Doctors.

There are more Doctors than a lot of you might think that are pro-gun and in fact carry a handgun. They fully realize that they are targets by criminals, upset patients and their families.

Finally this has been acknowledged here. Not just the AMA, but many other colleges of various medical sub-specialties are anti-2A. There are small panels that determine these political alignments and they are not representative of physicians as a whole. For a variety of reasons, one often needs membership in these organizations for professional purposes, but there's little recourse in changing the official anti-2A stances of them.

If this physician were to lose his admission privileges at this hospital then getting another job at another hospital isn't is easy as it sounds. There are applications with dozens of pages that have to be filled. Credentials have to be verified (from school, to licensure, to DEA and state controlled substances numbers), background checks have to be done (criminal and civil), etc. Gaining admission privileges takes months (typically 2-3).

If his liability insurance carrier gets sued by a family member of the attacker then that follows him and puts him under scrutiny and raises his premiums.

If he wants to just go into private practice (out-patient only) and not work in a hospital then he'll spend 3-6 months building up a practice (getting patients, getting payments from insurance carriers- which are delayed 3-6 months, hiring and training staff, learning the ins/outs of a new practice setting (solo out-patient vs. in-patient), etc.

Regardless, he loses a substantial amount of his earnings for a period of time.

No doubt in my mind the guy was heroic and probably saved other's lives, but I think the hospital has yet to make any final decisions regarding his status. Hopefully he remains with them. This incident really highlights the stupidity of these gun-free zones and no-gun policies.

 

[Bob2222]

The doctor isn't necessarily a hospital employee, he could be a self-employed staff physician in private practice leasing an office in the "wellness center" -- which seems to be the doctor's office building across the street form the hospital itself. If he's not employed by the hospital, he can't be fired by the hospital.

http://www.mercyhealth.org/locations/wellness-centers/fitzgerald/sister-marie-lenahan/

The hospital probably has thousands of regulations covering not just firearms but things from parking regulations to visiting hours. Few of these regulations would have the force of law. If a visitor with a CCW was discovered to have a firearm, the most they might be able to do is ask him/her to leave, and if he refused, have him/her arrested for trespassing.

Since physicians and particularly psychiatrists will be in pretty short supply for the foreseeable future, I wouldn't be overly concerned about his professional future. And the doctor is probably very very happy just to be alive right now.

 

[CLP]

The doctor isn't necessarily a hospital employee, he could be a self-employed staff physician in private practice leasing an office in the "wellness center" -- which seems to be the doctor's office building across the street form the hospital itself. If he's not employed by the hospital, he can't be fired by the hospital.

http://www.mercyhealth.org/locations/wellness-centers/fitzgerald/sister-marie-lenahan/

The hospital probably has thousands of regulations covering not just firearms but things from parking regulations to visiting hours. Few of these regulations would have the force of law. If a visitor with a CCW was discovered to have a firearm, the most they might be able to do is ask him/her to leave, and if he refused, have him/her arrested for trespassing.

Since physicians and particularly psychiatrists will be in pretty short supply for the foreseeable future, I wouldn't be overly concerned about his professional future. And the doctor is probably very very happy just to be alive right now.

I agree- most physicians aren't actually employed by the hospitals where they have admission privileges- but having your privileges revoked is a de facto termination. That's why I referred to the possibility of him losing his admission privileges and not being fired. Even if only leasing space, those same rules apply.

This issue isn't about being fired or rules having or not having the force of law. The point I was making was the financial loss he can potentially suffer for doing nothing more than stopping a violent criminal. It takes time to build up a practice, and that equates to lost revenue. Not exactly fair.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

The hospital probably has thousands of regulations covering not just firearms but things from parking regulations to visiting hours. Few of these regulations would have the force of law. If a visitor with a CCW was discovered to have a firearm, the most they might be able to do is ask him/her to leave, and if he refused, have him/her arrested for trespassing.

Remember...this can't be said for every state. In South Carolina, for example, even with a permit it's against the law to carry a concealed weapon into a "hospital, medical clinic, doctor's office, or any other facility where medical services or procedures are performed unless expressly authorized by the employer."

 

[herrwalther]

The two interesting developments about this story that came across my social feeds today. One is great news. The other makes me want to hammer a nail in with my head. Good news as always first.

Mercy Health System posted the following status to their Facebook page (our bold below):

We are thankful for the swift action of Dr. Lee Silverman, Dr. Jeffrey Dekret, John D’Alonzo and the other colleagues and visitors who took brave and difficult action during yesterday’s tragic event. We extend our condolences to Theresa Hunt’s family, and we are praying for Dr. Silverman’s speedy recovery. We look forward to Dr. Silverman’s return to serving patients at our hospital. We will do all we can to support the victims during this difficult time.

http://bearingarms.com/psychiatrist-will-fired-shooting-murderer-gun-free-hospital/

And the headache after. From NBC no less. For those that thought the antis were just going to ignore this story or spin it to say "well with background checks the patient would not have had a gun." Well you are wrong. This anti is attacking the legally armed and defending psychiatrist. I swear I am not making this up, I can't come up with this level of stupid on my own...

“My guess is that arming psychiatrists is more likely to be harmful than helpful,” said DJ Jaffe, executive director of Mental Illness Policy Org, a nonpartisan science-based think tank focused on serious mental illness.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...s-likely-more-harmful-helpful-experts-n165286

 

[RustyShackelford]

2 points....

1) "Leftys" or left wing celebs or anti gun politicos who have double-standards are nothing new.
Staunch anti-gunner Rosie O'Donnell couldn't explain away or defend her use of armed security guards & EP agents. She was also quietly let go from her K-Mart endorsement deals over her anti-2A views. K-Mart stores(where legal) had firearms & sporting goods in some retail locations.
The noted DC area columnist & pundit; Carl Rowan, who railed against gun owners & CCWs, used a small revolver his son(a former FBI agent) gave him, to shoot at a few trespassers in his pool area.
So, if you are rich, well connected or in the public eye, you are more valuable then other citizens.
2) I worked a security detail a few weeks ago at a new medical office that was already the scene of a break-in & other security/safety issues.
Some people don't realize that doctors offices or medical centers are targets by crooks or drug addicts who want to steal medications, equipment, computers, monitors, needles, etc. Veternarian clinics & animal hospitals get break-ins too.

Some medical offices & hospitals have armed guards or off duty LE in my area but many still have the out-moded, "wait until something tragic happens" mindset.
I'm sure the lawyers & accountants had something to do with that.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

As soon as I read "My guess...", I tuned out the rest of what DJ Jaffe had to say.

 

[230RN]

seeker_two wisecracked,

"Doctors can afford better lawyers than can 7-11 clerks and pizza delivery drivers..... "

Quoted for Truth.

With a capital "T."

Terry

 

[Mooseman]

Well that was weird, as soon as I arrived at work today our maintenance guy asked me if I had my gun with me. He had heard about the shooting and was noting how many people we have with mental issues. It caught me off guard and I didn't answer him either way, just gave him a lame "yeah, it's crazy out there response". I hope I'm not questioned about this by my boss, I don't enjoy lying.