Cops in SF/NYC should not carry off duty

[gunsmith]

flame suit on

I don't think that cops should have more rights
then regular citizens.
we should demand that cops in NY/SF/DC etc
be forced to rely on 911 calls just like the peasants
they are forced to arrest.(for enjoying God given rights)
I just got off the phone with my brother an officer
withNYPD
HE wants me to come visit
and I would love to visit my old home town, but I can't I
told him.
I wouldn't want a felony if busted.
here in Frisco it's a misdemeanor.
Maybe more law officers would support
CCW if they had to rely on
911 calls

 

[atek3]

darn tootin.

I live in berkeley and I agree w/ every word.

atek3

 

[FedDC]

Yeah, those evil cops out there just takin our civil rights away...it's not like they have a legal duty to respond to a crime in progress or anything. And I's sure that nobody on this board would criticize if a cop that was off duty just stood by while someone got raped/robbed. Get Real, there is a diference in cops and everyday citizens. Cops have a legal duty to move towards the danger and make it safe. Citizens do not. 99% of the time, regular citizens just complicate a crime scene more than it already is. Take my advice, unless lives are in imminent danger and you can safely step in with a sidearm, just be a good witness.

 

[TheeBadOne]

Are you advocating restricting/taking aways someones gun rights? Guess the anti's appreciate you helping their cause and will jump right in to help you.
I don't see taking away as helping, we should put more effort into RTC laws and lawmakers.

JMHO

 

[Ed N.]

"Cops have a legal duty to move towards the danger and make it safe."
==========================================

No, they don't. Not even when ON duty do they have such a legal responsibility, and the courts have been consistent in this. Get your facts straight.

And frankly, "need" doesn't have a bloody thing to do with constitutional rights. Even if it did, a woman threatened by a jealous ex, relying on a useless restraining order, has more need for a self-defense weapon than an off-duty cop, yet in NY she's denied the ability to protect herself.

Get real. Cops ARE ordinary citizens, and have no more (or less) rights than any of the rest of us.

 

[hammer4nc]

The above post, from a LEO, is a good example of the LE mindset that many object to in this forum. I'm hoping it was intended as sarcasm, but if not I'll give Mr. FedDC the opportunity to reconsider his statement.

 

[greyhound]

At least he didn't refer the "regular citizens" as "civilians". Makes my blood boil when I hear a LEO say that.

 

[FedDC]

Guys, relax, part of that was meant as sarcasm. Feel free to differentiate the two. As far as a duty to act, local LEOs whether on or of duty in all of the areas I have worked do have a duty to act in the event of a violent felony or a crime that could involve injury to another person. Federal LEOs do not typically have a duty to act ever.

As to whether I think folks should be carrying guns, yes I do think that folks should be able to carry concealed and own all the guns they want. What I meant was that I do not think that people should confuse having a concealed weapon with being a cop. There is s BIG difference. Everyone seems to think that just bc they have a pistol, they are prepared to intervene in any situation and I can tell you from experience that it just ain't so. If any of these chairborn rangers would like to run toward the danger along side the LEOs, feel free to endure the 6-8 months of training, making about 30k and having no personal life, then feel free to sign up. Otherwise, don't confuse having a pistol and being a responsible citizen with being a cop. One has a duty only to protect himself, the other has a duty to enforce the law and thereby protect the population at large. There is a difference.

 

[El Tejon]

I believe FedDC, if I may be so bold, is making a distinction between administrative duty and legal duty. Legally, the po-po have no duty to do anything, however they may be fired (check local listings) if they do not.

FedDC, welcome to THR. I do not believe you will find any "chairborne Rangers" here, this is THR. Everyone here understands that carrying a pistol does not make you Batman.

BTW, by statute and by case law, "regular citizens" have a duty to enforce the law as well.

gunsmith, I have long advocated the disarming of all police departments that wish to infringe upon our right to arms. Go see your brother.

 

[whoami]

If any of these chairborn rangers would like to run toward the danger along side the LEOs, feel free to endure the 6-8 months of training, making about 30k and having no personal life, then feel free to sign up. Otherwise, don't confuse having a pistol and being a responsible citizen with being a cop. One has a duty only to protect himself, the other has a duty to enforce the law and thereby protect the population at large. There is a difference.

Just as there is a difference between 'on duty' and 'off duty'.

 

[FedDC]

You are correct, the difference between on and off duty is that on duty you respond to misdemeanors and felonies. Off duty cops are only required to respond to felonies and or crimes that may involve injury to another person. Smart officers that deal with crime on a daily basis know that intervening off duty is so far beyond unsafe that most times it is better to be a good witness. Off duty you have no armor, no radio and often no cuffs or OC. Not every situation is a shoot situation and you very well may be outnumbered by unarmed thugs. Are you going to shoot several unarmed people? Pull your pistol and point it. Thugs know that you can not legally fire on them unless they are threatening the life (not property) of another human being. They will use the ROE against you. That is why it is better for most folks to just be a good witness and call the (on duty) cops unless there is imminent danger of bodily harm.

 

[ElToro]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If any of these chairborn rangers would like to run toward the danger along side the LEOs, feel free to endure the 6-8 months of training, making about 30k and having no personal life, then feel free to sign up. Otherwise, don't confuse having a pistol and being a responsible citizen with being a cop. One has a duty only to protect himself, the other has a duty to enforce the law and thereby protect the population at large. There is a difference.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

what ? where i live starting pay is about 70k with OT it can easily reach 100k.. punch in 25 years and your making 70-90k pension FOR LIFE at age 55 start 2nd career as security consultant, put in enuff units to collect socialized security and your income increases some more... there is tremendous competition for these .gov jobs... i'm not saying its easy being a cop, but these guys GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO BECOME COPS.. or is it becuase they have a good union and cushy bennies after 25 years ?
as far as no social life goes, every cop i know in my age range (mid to late 20s, early 30's) that isnt married, (and some that are ) is getting laid so often it makes me.. well jealous..ever hear of a beat wife ? if you dont want to work the OT the 4 days on 3 off routine makes it easy to go on nice trips to Vegas etc.. if you dont have that part time 2nd career going allready..

dont get me started on cops not being legally obligated to do crap... all they are is to protect the interest.. of the .gov at the end of a gun and collect revenue... the CHP is the worst offender.. dont let the TV show fool you all they do is write tickets and take accident reports.. only time they see action is when they pull over a bad guy.. a real small % of time if you study the numbers... otherwise a whole gang of em hangs out at oppurtune places on the freeway at rush hour and nail people just trying to get home... AAA with a gun

and most of em barely know which end of a gun goes bang.. most never even held a gun till academy.. the leos on gun boards are rare exception...
i propbly put more rounds through my gun in a single range session than most cops do in a career of 2x a year qualifying... ever been in th elocker room at SJPD ? LOTS of bullet holes in the walls and ceilings... these guys have so many ND's its embarrasing... if you had one ND in a lifetime youd be charged with everything from shooting inside city limits to attempted murder becuase it went into your neighbors house...

 

[Steve in PA]

Want to know the ratio to "citizens" (almost said the "c" word) to cops being shot just because they are cops????

 

[ElToro]

i give up.. whats the ratio ?
hardly any cop i know even lives in the city in which hes a cop... unless your wearing the ultra short marine corp hairdo with the super thin mustache, how would anybody know your a cop when your off duty? so you meet up with a bad guy you once put in the joint what are those odds? slim and none i imagine unless off duty youre hanging around places you probly shouldnt be.

i would posit that legally (and illegally) armed citizens prevent a heck of a lot more crimes as a whole or on a per capita basis than cops, who in reality are armed historians.. coming after the fact to write what they think happened.. its the rare case where cops catch somebody in the act red handed

 

[Steve in PA]

Read your own papers......it happens alot in Calif.....cops being shot because someone ID them as a cop.

 

[ElToro]

well im 29 tomorrow and been driving since i was 16. had about 8 tickets (mostly speeding) in those 13 years, never had an encounter with the police otherwise that wasnt at my initiating. i couldnt recognize ony of those dozen or so cops in a room full of people.. maybe i just have a bad memory. sorry.
i seriously doubt that a guy going for a ride to CJ would recognize a cop a year or 3 down the line.. maybe its the 9 million or so population of the greater bay area.. maybe you live in a small town. i dunno. maybe you could give me a link to a story about a cop being shot becuase he was made off duty. that wasnt in a town the size of Mayberry RFD.

 

[Orthonym]

"...ultra short ... hairdo with the super thin moustache..."

In that case, a disguise may be in order. I recommend a Pink Pistols t-shirt. Maybe those perps thought they were gay-bashing?

 

[TheeBadOne]

There are many bad guys out there who remember everything about the Officer who arrested them, locked them away, "ruined their life". That's how many of them see it, the cop took away the most precious thing they have, their freedom. It matters not what evil deed they did, it's that damn cops fault, and if I ever see him...... Many Officers do dress down/differently when off duty, and you don't have to go to a seedy part of town to run into Joe Dirtbag, just go to Walmart, Menards, Cub Food, Home Depot, or Target....EVERYONE goes to those places.

JMHO

 

[Steve in PA]

You may not remember me.......but I'll remember you.

I've been out and about with my wife.......not even in the same town where I work and had someone recognize me as the person who arrested them.

California.......the land of fruits and nuts

 

[Deepdiver]

Relative to the original topic of this thread, I am of the opinion that all LEOs should carry off duty as well as on duty, with or without any special permits.

In fact, I believe that we should have as many good guys carrying as we can possibly muster, at all times.

Despite an occasional encounter with a poorly trained LEO, they are still our friends, and I support their right to defend themselves (as well as others, on duty or off).

Remember, this IS about the fight of Good against Evil....and with or without a "hall pass" granted by some boot liicking politician, those of us on the side of Good, ought to be "armed to the teeth".

 

[Futo Inu]

You will get no flame from me, as I wholeheartedly agree. That was the one good thing to come from the unconstitional "Lautenberg law" (the one that takes away a fundamental right for not even committing a crime (being under a dometic restraining order) - since it applied/applies to LEOs just the same, many of them have had to ride desks, putting more LEOs on the right side of the debate.

 

[atek3]

Relative to the original topic of this thread, I am of the opinion that all LEOs should carry off duty as well as on duty, with or without any special permits.

In fact, I believe that we should have as many good guys carrying as we can possibly muster, at all times.

Despite an occasional encounter with a poorly trained LEO, they are still our friends, and I support their right to defend themselves (as well as others, on duty or off).

Remember, this IS about the fight of Good against Evil....and with or without a "hall pass" granted by some boot liicking politician, those of us on the side of Good, ought to be "armed to the teeth".

Maybe where you live you have 'Officers of the Peace', here in the PRK, we have "Law Enforcement Officers" or Enforcers for short. Now before any of you think I'm just looking for an excuse to cop bash, I'm not. I know several nice cops to whom this message is NOT directed. Back to the point, enforcing Laws (or rather Fiats) does not make one a "good guy". There are plenty of atrocious laws that when enforced place the LEO squarely in JBT territory.
True story:
LEO sees some college students. Searches them and finds ecstasy, busts them. What's wrong with this situation? The case goes to trial and it turns out the Cop in the documentation of the arrest said "he smelled marijuana", as justification for the search. However, this "marijuana reference" was absolute bullhockey as none of the parties involved smoked. It was simply added after the fact to insure the legality of the search, after all it was cops word versus "civilian".
Long story short:
Good cops are just that good cops, entitled to all the rights of citizens, but Bad cops, they shouldn't even carry when their ON duty.

atek3

 

[FedDC]

atek3:

I'm going to guess that you have more of a problem with a person getting arrested for Possession of Ex, than with what you consider an unconstitutional search. End result: Criminal is punished! Good guys win! This isn't complicated. I would surmise that you had to know the guys that went to the pokie or you wouldn't know that they hadn't been smoking and if that is the case, then why are you hanging out with folks that are takin' drugs... Somehow I doubt that you'll find a lot of sympathy for the druggies and their scum bag drug dealers on this board.

 

[gunsmith]

welcome to THR FedDC

I don't like junkies,they make my job alot harder.
At the same time I think drugs should just be legalized
and regulated/taxed like alcohol.
When I was a kid in NYC I new how to get weed,coke(if I wanted it)
with no problems other then dealing with thugs,beer
on the other hand was a huge problem due to
it being only available OTC.
That being said,I think all drugs are dangerous
and should be avoided.
I am an armed security guard and in the
course of my work have seen jobs paying more
then twice what I get now,but I need CCW
to even apply. I do a good job and the junkies
hate me for it and would kill me if they could
I have ample need for CCW (death threats from
paroled cons & junkies,guard huge amounts of cash)
But living in SF means only foreigners with
diplomatic immunity and cops can get the good security
gigs and protect themselves ...

 

[Spot77]

Eltoro (and anybody else that cares):

http://www.thewbalchannel.com/news/2068607/detail.html

It's not the full story, it's only a follow up. I couldn't find the original story.

This happened less than a year ago in Baltimore. I'm sure some research would provide oodles of other similar stories, but I remembered when this happened so it's the only one I can think to look up.

I work out with a friend of mine who is an Anne Arundel County, MD Police Officer, and he is CONSTANTLY pointing out people in the gym that he has arrested. I've even been introduced to a few....most are pretty amicable, some are downright friendly, but there's a few that would probably like to see a few hundred pounds of weights fall on him.....

So for my 2 cents worth, I fully support LEO's carrying off duty, as well as every one of us who can show competency with a handgun.