Crimping advice please

[vaalpens]

I have just expanded my reloading horizon by getting into reloading for 38special and 357mag. There is a lot for me to learn, but with what I have seen so far, it looks like it should be easier than when I started reloading 357sig about one year ago to the day.

One of the skills I need to master is roll-crimping. When to apply it and how much to apply. Today for the first try I loaded some dummy bullets just to get the feeling of how the crimping could be applied. I am planning on doing seating and crimping in two separate steps, even though I will be using the same die. I also have the Lee FCD, I use the FCD for other cartridges, but I'm not sure yet if I will use it for 38/357 reloading.

Following are my first attempts at roll cimping. The first two is for the same bullet, but I wasn't sure where to apply the crimp since the crimp groove is so wide.

The next bullet has a very subtle print groove, and I can probably crimp a tiny bit lower, but again I'm not sure where the correct place is to crimp.

Please feel free to provide any comments regarding my crimping. Let me know if you think these are light, medium or heavy crimps. In some cases I will have to put in heavier crimps, so it will give me some baseline from where to adjust my crimping.

As always, any comments will be appreciated.

 

[Dudedog]

On the first two I would say seat a hair deeper than the first one and a hair less than the second.
How much crimp you need depends on .38/.357 and if is is a light, med or full power .357 load. I would say the amount of crimp on the first one looks good. 2nd one I think is to much.

I should have sent an OAL for the .357 instead of just saying crimp in the grove.

I would note however that I load lots more 9mm and .45 than .357 so others (quite possibly correctly) will have different thoughts.

3rd looks good. IMO

 

[HKGuns]

^^agree^^

 

[LoneGoose]

Yes, in the second picture I can see where your die has pushed a crease into the case. You don't have to hide the entire top edge of the case, just get the inside of that edge to lay against the bullet. I'm curious about the bullet in the third picture. Can you post a pic of a bullet by itself?

 

[Grumulkin]

I like crimp number two the best but they'd all probably work. If the bullets don't move under recoil then the crimp is sufficient.

 

[joneb]

Nice pics I take calipers with me when testing loads, for pistol and revolver. I don't want set back or bullet pull.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

IMO, seat the bullet deeper on the first, there is way too much crimp on the second and the third looks good to me.

 

[vaalpens]

On the first two I would say seat a hair deeper than the first one and a hair less than the second.
How much crimp you need depends on .38/.357 and if is is a light, med or full power .357 load. I would say the amount of crimp on the first one looks good. 2nd one I think is to much.

I should have sent an OAL for the .357 instead of just saying crimp in the grove.

I would note however that I load lots more 9mm and .45 than .357 so others (quite possibly correctly) will have different thoughts.

3rd looks good. IMO

Thanks Dudedog,

Did I mention these are the bullets PIF'd to me my Dudedog. Thanks again.

The second crimp was basically just seating the first one deeper and applying a crimp again. I think that is where I over crimped it.

The OAL will be great, assuming the cartridge trim length is exactly the same.

 

[vaalpens]

Yes, in the second picture I can see where your die has pushed a crease into the case. You don't have to hide the entire top edge of the case, just get the inside of that edge to lay against the bullet. I'm curious about the bullet in the third picture. Can you post a pic of a bullet by itself?

Thanks for the comments LoneGoose.

The second one is definitely overcrimped. My mistake since I applied crimp again after seating #1 deeper.

This picture is not very good, but following is one of the bullets:

 

[vaalpens]

I like crimp number two the best but they'd all probably work. If the bullets don't move under recoil then the crimp is sufficient.

Thanks. It could be a little overcrimp, but location looks good to me.

 

[vaalpens]

Nice pics I take calipers with me when testing loads, for pistol and revolver. I don't want set back or bullet pull.

Thanks. The picture could have been better, but at least it shows the details I did not see before.

Good point. I will definitely take my calipers with when I test my first rounds.

 

[vaalpens]

IMO, seat the bullet deeper on the first, there is way too much crimp on the second and the third looks good to me.

Thanks.

What is nice about the single stage press is that I can feel the resistance when I apply the crimp and I am confident that after some practice/experience that I should be able to feel when the crimp is just right. And in combination with the critique from the THR members obviously.

 

[vaalpens]

Based on some of the comments I decided to do another crimp test, but this time using load data with a specific trim length and COL. I used the Hodgdon 38special 158gr SWC load data with a 1.145" trim length and a COL of 1.475".

Here is the result:

As always any comment regarding the crimping result will be appreciated.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

IMO that is more than enough crimp for a .38 Special and probably enough for a .357 Magnum too. The crimp placement look almost perfect too.

 

[ljnowell]

IMO, seat the bullet deeper on the first, there is way too much crimp on the second and the third looks good to me.

This man hit it right on the head.

 

[ljnowell]

Based on some of the comments I decided to do another crimp test, but this time using load data with a specific trim length and COL. I used the Hodgdon 38special 158gr SWC load data with a 1.145" trim length and a COL of 1.475".



Here is the result:

As always any comment regarding the crimping result will be appreciated.

I would still seat the bullet a touch deeper. I like for all of the crimp groove to be covered. That's just a personal thing though, yours is more than satisfactory, in fact I would say that it's really good.

 

[vaalpens]

IMO that is more than enough crimp for a .38 Special and probably enough for a .357 Magnum too. The crimp placement look almost perfect too.

Thanks. I will probably use the last example for now and wait after I tested my loads to see if I need to adjust the crimp.

For 357mag I can use my caliper to see if the bullet is pulled, but how do you know if you have too much crimp for 38special?

 

[Dudedog]

Lookin good

and
Your'e welcome.

 

[vaalpens]

I would still seat the bullet a touch deeper. I like for all of the crimp groove to be covered. That's just a personal thing though, yours is more than satisfactory, in fact I would say that it's really good.

Thanks.

For this one I just wanted to see how much of the crimp groove is covered if I follow the load data COL/trim size. I think I like where it is at, with a little bit of breathing room since nothing is perfect and completely withing specs.

 

[vaalpens]

Lookin good

Thanks to the enabler in chief.

 

[Walkalong]

Not the best pics.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

My advice to you is to do what I did when I was first starting out reloading with 45 Colt. Buy a couple of boxes of commercial reloads and compare your crimps to the commercial stuff. Just keep adjusting your dies until your crimps look like commercial crimps. Personally, I like my crimp to roll right into the crimp groove and bite ever so slightly into the bullet. I like my crimp to roll right up to the top of the underside of the crimp groove.

Here are a couple of my 38 Special rounds.



The important thing is, don't overcrimp. Don't apply so much pressure that the case mouth swells. Use your calipers to make sure that the case mouth diameter has not gotten any larger than the rest of the case diameter. This is pretty easy to determine on straight walled cases like 38 Special.

By the way, there is no secret to seating and crimping in one step. Just follow the directions that came with your dies. I always seat and crimp in one step.

P.S. Don't be a slave to COAL dimensions. The placement of the crimp groove on a bullet can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. Let the placement of the crimp groove on the bullets you are using be your guide. A few thousandths plus or minus of COAL should not matter much.

 

[Reefinmike]

driftwood- it looks like you might be damaging your brass. I am seeing a sharp ring at the bottom of the crimp. picture isnt super clear so i cant be certain and it may also be due to new dies that havent worn in leaving a sharp edge.

Dudedog's first post pretty much covered it.

For 38spl I use mixed brass and don't really crimp any, just remove the belling. case lengths vary a bit so some may have zero crimp and others may have a hint of a crimp. my 357 mag loads are always starline brass, full tilt w296 or lil'gun loads(that is the point of a magnum, right?) with a moderately heavy roll crimp- right about where op ended up in post 13. I don't shoot them in any light guns so there is no issue with bullets walking out of the case

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Thanks. I will probably use the last example for now and wait after I tested my loads to see if I need to adjust the crimp.

For 357mag I can use my caliper to see if the bullet is pulled, but how do you know if you have too much crimp for 38special?

It's not that your crimp is too much for a .38 Special, its about not over working the brass. If you apply extra crimp you will find cracks in the brass mouth sooner. .38 Special brass should last almost forever. I have been loading the same 1200 pieces of Remington .38 Special brass for over 10 years and not one has cracked yet.

 

[vaalpens]

It's not that your crimp is too much for a .38 Special, its about not over working the brass. If you apply extra crimp you will find cracks in the brass mouth sooner. .38 Special brass should last almost forever. I have been loading the same 1200 pieces of Remington .38 Special brass for over 10 years and not one has cracked yet.

Thanks ArchAngelCD.

I have been thinking of maybe using my Lee FCD for 38special loads and just apply a taper crimp like I do for 9mm and 40S&W. The FCD is very easy on the brass.