Crimping advice please

[vaalpens]

Not the best pics.

Walkalong,

Thanks, the pics are good enough to see I have some work to do. It also shows me that I am on the the right path.

I have similar pictures from you before and I have a stupid question. The bullet on the left. Is that a seated bullet that you shoot, or just placed on top of a case so we can see what the crimp groove looks like.

 

[vaalpens]

Howdy

My advice to you is to do what I did when I was first starting out reloading with 45 Colt. Buy a couple of boxes of commercial reloads and compare your crimps to the commercial stuff. Just keep adjusting your dies until your crimps look like commercial crimps. Personally, I like my crimp to roll right into the crimp groove and bite ever so slightly into the bullet. I like my crimp to roll right up to the top of the underside of the crimp groove.

Here are a couple of my 38 Special rounds.

The important thing is, don't overcrimp. Don't apply so much pressure that the case mouth swells. Use your calipers to make sure that the case mouth diameter has not gotten any larger than the rest of the case diameter. This is pretty easy to determine on straight walled cases like 38 Special.

By the way, there is no secret to seating and crimping in one step. Just follow the directions that came with your dies. I always seat and crimp in one step.

P.S. Don't be a slave to COAL dimensions. The placement of the crimp groove on a bullet can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. Let the placement of the crimp groove on the bullets you are using be your guide. A few thousandths plus or minus of COAL should not matter much.

DJ,

Thanks for sharing your pictures. The crimping looks good and gives me an indication what to shoot for.

I definitely check against over crimping. I assume a good straight edge ruler should do the trick.

I assume if you have your dies set then crimping in one step makes a lot of sense. I just always adjust my dies on a single stage based on the length of the case and the bullet I seat. I also am used to crimping in a separate step, so for now I am ok doing my seating and crimping in two steps. A one step process is something I will try at some time. Thanks for the suggestion.

You are correct. I should not be a slave to the COL dimensions. I normally set my own COL, but in this case I just wanted to see where the crimp would be in relationship to the crimp groove if I follow the COL/trim data.

 

[Walkalong]

The bullet on the left. Is that a seated bullet that you shoot, or just placed on top of a case so we can see what the crimp groove looks like.

Yes, just the same bullet placed on a .38 Spl case to show the crimp groove in the bullet. I didn't get enough light in those pics. Argh.

 

[vaalpens]

Yes, just the same bullet placed on a .38 Spl case to show the crimp groove in the bullet. I didn't get enough light in those pics. Argh.

Thanks Walkalong. Now it makes sense to me, since I have been asked to show a picture of the bullet to show the crimp groove. Just include both in one picture.

 

[vaalpens]

driftwood- it looks like you might be damaging your brass. I am seeing a sharp ring at the bottom of the crimp. picture isnt super clear so i cant be certain and it may also be due to new dies that havent worn in leaving a sharp edge.

Dudedog's first post pretty much covered it.

For 38spl I use mixed brass and don't really crimp any, just remove the belling. case lengths vary a bit so some may have zero crimp and others may have a hint of a crimp. my 357 mag loads are always starline brass, full tilt w296 or lil'gun loads(that is the point of a magnum, right?) with a moderately heavy roll crimp- right about where op ended up in post 13. I don't shoot them in any light guns so there is no issue with bullets walking out of the case

Thanks. I will probably back off on the crimp for my 38special loads since all you need really is just removing the bell.

I am definitely going to push the 357mag at some point so I can compare the feel between the 357mag and my 357sig. I think my Ruger SP101 has plenty weight, and it is one of the reasons I went with the SP101.

 

[ljnowell]

Thanks. I will probably back off on the crimp for my 38special loads since all you need really is just removing the bell.



I am definitely going to push the 357mag at some point so I can compare the feel between the 357mag and my 357sig. I think my Ruger SP101 has plenty weight, and it is one of the reasons I went with the SP101.

Since you were just beginning I wasn't going to go too far into the crimping debate. However, let's venture a little deeper.

Applying a full roll crimp(though not excessive) is perfectly fine in a 38 special. That's how it's been done for years. If you are looking for max accuracy, however, that's not the way to do it.

I load semi wadcutters for use on the 50 yard line in Bullseye shooting. I actually seat the crimp groove fully in the case along with half of the forward driving band(the flat above the crimp groove). Then I apply a taper crimp to remove all flaring from the case and just a touch more.

Why? Because on a lightly loaded target level 38 a roll crimp can be detrimental to accuracy. With a fast burning powder it simply isn't needed for combustion at all. I can't explain 100% of the physics behind it but I can tell you that myself and many others have tested it, and it's true.

Now, as a beginner to this cartridge I'm not necessarily advising you go this route but when you feel comfortable enough to experiment with it, I suggest you give it a try.

 

[vaalpens]

Since you were just beginning I wasn't going to go too far into the crimping debate. However, let's venture a little deeper.

Applying a full roll crimp(though not excessive) is perfectly fine in a 38 special. That's how it's been done for years. If you are looking for max accuracy, however, that's not the way to do it.

I load semi wadcutters for use on the 50 yard line in Bullseye shooting. I actually seat the crimp groove fully in the case along with half of the forward driving band(the flat above the crimp groove). Then I apply a taper crimp to remove all flaring from the case and just a touch more.

Why? Because on a lightly loaded target level 38 a roll crimp can be detrimental to accuracy. With a fast burning powder it simply isn't needed for combustion at all. I can't explain 100% of the physics behind it but I can tell you that myself and many others have tested it, and it's true.

Now, as a beginner to this cartridge I'm not necessarily advising you go this route but when you feel comfortable enough to experiment with it, I suggest you give it a try.

ljnowell, thanks for the insight into crimping for 38 special. I always wondered when to apply the roll crimp vs the taper crimp.

I will be comfortable just using a taper crimp, but I also understand I will have to verify each of these loads for pullback of the bullet. Even for autos I had to learn to not overcrimp, and for 357sig the learning curve was even higher.

Initially I will apply the crimp I have used in my dummy rounds, and then through evaluation decide how I want to adjust it. For me the most important thing is obviously safety, but I also want a process that is repeatable since I use a single stage press and always adjust my dies. Repeatability also add to the safety.

 

[ljnowell]

ljnowell, thanks for the insight into crimping for 38 special. I always wondered when to apply the roll crimp vs the taper crimp.



I will be comfortable just using a taper crimp, but I also understand I will have to verify each of these loads for pullback of the bullet. Even for autos I had to learn to not overcrimp, and for 357sig the learning curve was even higher.



Initially I will apply the crimp I have used in my dummy rounds, and then through evaluation decide how I want to adjust it. For me the most important thing is obviously safety, but I also want a process that is repeatable since I use a single stage press and always adjust my dies. Repeatability also add to the safety.

It sounds to me like you are on the right track, keep loading!