Draw times - whoa!

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Anmut

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So I downloaded a free shot timer for my android phone. I went to the range this morning, it was nice and quiet, nobody else was there so the timer worked great. I also have recently purchased a 11"x 20" torso steel target. I put it out at 20 yards and had the shot timer go off randomly to practice drawing from my IWB holster.

Shooting with my hands in my coat, IWB holster tucked in under a tshirt: beep to first shot was about 3.5 seconds.

Shooting from a "hand-on-gun but still holstered" was about 1.5 seconds until the first shot.

I was doing six shot strings with three shots per mag so there was a mag change in the middle. I was shooting a g4 Glock 23. Mag changes were about 3 seconds too!

I was really amazed how much time passes between my brain hearing the timer "acknowledging threat", getting the gun solid in my hands, getting a sight picture and getting that first shot on target. When the pressure is on suddenly the simple act of raising one's coat, finding and drawing your pistol becomes a big fumble fingers event...

The other big thing I noticed was for the first dozen times I ran this drill my first shots almost always missed the steel, with all the follow up shots on target.

So my take-aways from this morning: I just found a seriously fun way to up my training - and holy heck drawing from a IWB with a winter coat on is slow! Also - I need to train MORE.

Anyone else practice drills like this?
 
Every one needs to practice drills like that if they are serious about carrying a firearm for self defense.

Draws and mag changes are by far the most lacking skills I see in my students.

Just make sure you don't start rushing it. That's when bullets and toes interact. Remember, slow is fast and all that.
 
Yep, I've seen the video of the guy shooting himself in the leg doing draw practices - I'll never be one to go for a super quick cowboy draw. Slow is fast - aim small miss small.
 
You've just discovered the truth of the saying that you'll never improve your skills until you put yourself on the clock.

A great draw and presentation actually feels slower than a rushed draw.

I must say that I've never tried the exact drills you've described, so a couple of questions:

1. If you are already concealing under your coat, why would you also tuck your t-shirt in over your IWB holster?
2. Why do you have the target placed so far away?

Observations:
1. Practice sweeping your coat out of the way, rather than lifting it. It is more natural and faster.
2. Study the optimal techniques for mag changes. 3 secs is a long time, 2 secs, much more acceptable and 1.5 seconds is pretty good. You can practice your reloads at home by setting your timer to a Par Time and working to beat the second beep
3. Misses don't count. You should only count the time from the signal to the first hit.
4. Be aware of not "bowling", bringing it up in an arc, you gun out toward the target. If you bring it up to eye level close to the body, you'll see the sights earlier in the presentation
 
1. Practice sweeping your coat out of the way, rather than lifting it. It is more natural and faster.
Click to expand...

YES. Most of the time I carry, a simple T-shirt covers my firearm. No coats/vests for me. Lifting a shirt takes more time compared to sweeping. Even with a closed garment like a T-shirt, you can still sweep it up and out of the way to draw. The only time I lift my shirt out of the way is when I have to tuck my shirt behind the holster or when talking it on or off.
 
I don't have any timer, but maybe I'll look around for that 'Droid app. It's not live fire but I do practice my draw stroke quite a bit at home. I will do some reps with my gun OWB and uncovered and more with clothing like I would normally be wearing. My focus isn't really on speed, but I'm thinking of the old saying, "slow is smooth and smooth is fast." I try to make sure I'm drawing correctly and efficiently, and flicking off the safety as I do.
 
I've do drills like this some, I never did it timed until I took a defensive handgun class, I did better than I thought and it was more fun! Another good one is, at ten yards you have six seconds to draw from concealment and fire three rounds, then you move up to the seven yards and have to fire four rounds in six seconds and finally you go to three yards and have to fire six rounds in six seconds, your target for all this is a idpa or other similar style target, the targets we used looked like real people.
 
I haven't found a timer for my blackberry, and haven't sprung for a shot timer yet. But we built a target stand with wheels and practice tueller (sp?) drills when we get a few people together. It's amazing how long it takes to get up and running with the target coming at you. Most of my pistols are sao, so clicking the safety adds another level of difficulty. We have had several people that let the target bump into them because they are so involved in drawing and firing, they don't remember that they can sidestep or move back. I have learned that 21 feet happens faster than you think it will.
 
@ anmut

Kudos to you for taking the time and expense to actually TEST yourself.

That is the only way to see how good you are,and not in your mind BUT in reality.

99% of shooters will not come close to testing themselves as they are fearful they wont be as good as they already know they are.

I tried that drill you did in winter clothing and on the clock = that is why I now coat carry in the winter with a weapon that I can access FAST.

From pocket to target is no more than 1.5 seconds [ S&W 340PD ] ,and if I shoot through pocket [ yes,need a few Salvation Army jackets to use up ] its faster but not as accurate.
 
Good thread. I usually conceal with an untucked t-shirt so sweeping that back usually doesnt work so well. I practice by lifting my shirt up with my support hand moving up the front right side of my chest. This keeps my support hand out of the way and lifts the shirt just enough to prevent a snag. I may be wrong, I am just doing that because it works the best after trial and error of different methods.

I would love to know the name of that shot timer app.
 
anmut ... if you are having trouble with the first shot missing the target - load just one bullet in the magazine. then practice that way. when you've only got one chance to get it right - you'll get it right.

CA R
 
Another shooter has "seen the light" shed by a shot timer!!

I sure get tired of braggarts that "know" they are faster than a rattlesnake.....just don't expect them to prove it to a peon like you...

Or people that dismiss the value of knowing how fast it takes you do execute this or that at different ranges, etc.

Or people that default to the oft-cited: "slow is smooth, smooth is fast" mantra. No, it's not. I can show you the slowest, smoothest draw ever....and it'll never be considered fast.

Or the "Economy of motion = fast." No, it's not.

To be fast, you must move fast, smoothly and efficiently.

Many people, not confident in their skills, grasp at the "speed is fine, accuracy is final" malarkey, as if you must choose between the two. You don't! Speedy accuracy is possible, AND achievable with a little practice. You'll improve in less than 50 rds...with the right attitude, a timer and ideally, proper instruction. But I've found that not many seem inclined or able to teach the Art of Speed.

So congrats to the OP for taking the step 99% of shooters don't or refuse to take to revealing and tracking his progress with a shot timer.
 
1. If you are already concealing under your coat, why would you also tuck your t-shirt in over your IWB holster?
What I meant was that my shirt is over my gun, like I carry everyday.
2. Why do you have the target placed so far away?
Basically I figure that it's safer for shooting steel and that shooting a smaller target at a distance under pressure is going to do nothing but improve skills at closer distances.

Observations:
1. Practice sweeping your coat out of the way, rather than lifting it. It is more natural and faster.
My coat is a Carhart, zipped up, heavy duty WI weather coat, lifting it is the best I can do...
2. Study the optimal techniques for mag changes. 3 secs is a long time, 2 secs, much more acceptable and 1.5 seconds is pretty good. You can practice your reloads at home by setting your timer to a Par Time and working to beat the second beep
Agreed - I was doing mag changes from my pocket, like I normally carry. I don't currently use mag holsters, but I plan on it in the future.
3. Misses don't count. You should only count the time from the signal to the first hit.
Agreed
4. Be aware of not "bowling", bringing it up in an arc, you gun out toward the target. If you bring it up to eye level close to the body, you'll see the sights earlier in the presentation
That's good stuff right there I'm going to make a note of that for my next session.
 
bainter1212 - the app is on android and it's simply called shot timer, it's the one with the circle clock face icon. The app isn't as good as some other free ones out there but it's the only one with a random start delay option beep.
 
anmut ... if you are having trouble with the first shot missing the target - load just one bullet in the magazine. then practice that way. when you've only got one chance to get it right - you'll get it right.

Thanks - that's a good way to maybe start the sessions. After I burned through about 60 rounds I finally recognized I was not focusing on the front sight on that first round. I was more focusing on getting both sights on target and getting that first shot off. After I made the adjustment in my mind, first shots became hits.
 
Placing the target so far away, in and of itself, isn't a bad thing. However, thinking "if I can hit far, then I can hit close" can get you killed, since the whole context of this is about defensive skills.

If you can hit far, of course you can hit close.....but can you do it fast enough? Not very likely. You're accustomed to your first shot being X amount of time, so you'll take that amount of time regardless of distance. If your first shot at 5 yds is the same time as your first shot at 20 yds, one of them is wrong.

Hand on gun start with a 5 yd target should be .7 or less for first shot/hit. Do NOT attempt this speed unless your draw stroke is PERFECT! IE; finger off trigger until sights are on target. Once you get the hang of it, you'll break 1/2 second routinely.

As I said, Speed is an Art - there's a way to do it. Shooting targets at distance won't translate much to hitting targets up close fast.

As far as reaction time, move on the very first note of the beep. Don't wait for it to finish before you begin to move. A 1/4 second is the average reaction time for someone anticipating an impending signal. (Think of a runner in the starting block waiting for the shot) so anything under .25 is very good.
 
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I played 3rd base in a softball game once when I was still active duty. The ball was hit to me and I scooped it up, got my hand on the ball the way I wanted (and in the process taking three steps), then gunned it to First. The pitcher was somewhat indignant that I had held onto the ball so long before throwing it. I explained that it was better if the ball got to First late but on target, than on-time but wild and over his head. Since it was both on time and on target, he had nothing about which to complain.

I will look for that app. Good on the OP for thinking about his draw more realistically.
 
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Anmut Thanks for sharing. I dug through the appstore & found this was available for my Iphone for free. I am going to try it out next time I get to go to the range.
 
I have the Surefire shot timer app on my iphone, works great. I have even dialed up the sensitivity to max and used it for dryfire draw practice.
 
try your drill on paper At 5-7 yards. This will help you with the speed aspect, and is more applicable to general self defense skills. When I practice, everything is from the holster, even slow fire. I start and finish with 10 rounds at 25 yards, to reinforce basic marksmanship. In between, I practice one shot draws from concealment, sighted pairs, shooting on the move, multiple targets (transitions), reloads and adjusting speed for near and far targets (throttle modulation).
 
It's been said many times that you can't really improve without a timer, because things that feel fast often aren't, and what feels slow may not be. Of course, it's also one of those things that people rarely believe until they see the results.
 
Back in the day of shooting 1000+ rounds a week and just finishing the GLOCK LE Shooter/Instructor school I had average times of .5 second out of the holster and a round fired downrange,including the .25 second for reaction time from when the timer beeped. That was with hands up or at the side.

I wasn't the fastest either..................
 
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