Drew down on a Stranger in My Back Yard

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I don' t know, we don't have many police around here and I have no idea how long it would take them to respond. What am I supposed to do, sit inside and call the cops and wait around for them to show up? I think the situation requires I be a bit more proactive. That's the way I would approach it here where I live.
 
We must be miscommunicating, 280plus. I was agreeing with your 'Can I help you?' approach while holding a concealed handgun in your pocket.
That's just plain sensible.
Biker
 
I've said it before, but if someone has land vast enough that he's tempted to leave cover to walk out and challenge trespassers, perhaps at that point a megaphone is a sound investment for his tool set?

And a rifle to back it up.


.
 
I certainly think you're justified to go out and challenge the intruder, and to be armed while doing so. However I worry about the legailty of drawing on him and ordering him prone, etc. I think in most states this could get you into trouble.
 
To summarize, the dude acted outside the scope of his authority, and Mike didn't violate any laws in defending his home.
Click to expand...

In Mike's state what he did might be completely lawful. If so, so be it. I'll say it again... If it had been in NC, Mike would have been violating the law. You can't draw and aim at someone in NC unless you face an imminent threat of death or serious harm.

Oh, and I understand that Mike wasn't asking for our advice or a judgement of his actions. But here on this board, we do tend to respond to create discussion, disagreement, support, and even controversy. Ain't it grand? :D
 
Pebcac said:
IMHO, brandishing a weapon at him and demanding he "prone out" is a bit extreme, given that he's in the back yard and not actually in the house or some such. I would have been more inclined to hold my weapon somewhat behind and against my leg while we discussed just what exactly the hell he was doing there, and not actually covered him with the muzzle unless/until he demonstrated hostility. If he's not there for mischief, he'll be glad to wait while I phone the pool company to verify his credentials. If he's not supposed to be there, he'll either run away, which would be wise, or toward me, which would not be wise. But I see no need to scare the guy half to death and treat him like I'm initiating a felony stop when he's just made a silly mistake while coming to clean my pool. YMMV.
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Pebcac: +1 you hit the nail on the head here!;)
 
280PLUS said:
Yea, I missed your meaning back there. I spent time trying to figure out how I was wrong. :p

Thanks for the vote of confidence!

;)
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Nevermind. Apparantly, the smily function wasn't working for me yesterday and I didn't catch your sarcasm smily. I got it now.
We can go back to hatin'.
:neener:
Biker
 
Nevermind. Apparantly, the smily function wasn't working for me yesterday and I didn't catch your sarcasm smily. I got it now.
We can go back to hatin'.
Click to expand...
Somehow I still feel lost. There was no sarcasm intended anywhere. Just so's you know. :D

(what sarcasm smily?)
 
Well the real question here is will Captain Mike be demoted to 2nd Lt. Mike?

:)
 
280PLUS said:
Somehow I still feel lost. There was no sarcasm intended anywhere. Just so's you know. :D

(what sarcasm smily?)
Click to expand...
Jus' havin' fun, Bro.
:)
p.s.
Guess I oughta start puttin' some coffee in my Baileys.:neener:

Biker
 
Hi All-

Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier to call the police department and handle it this way:

"...This is Captain Mike from 1313 Mockingbird Lane just off Route 42 near the old hardware store. I'm observing a suspicious trespasser in my backyard who appears to be a Hispanic male about twenty years old standing 5'7" tall at about 140 pounds with black hair. He is wearing blue shorts, a white shirt, no socks and gray sneakers. I am afraid he is planning to enter my house via the rear door.

I am inside my home and armed with a shotgun. Please send police officers immediately to assist me with this trespasser. If they wish to come through my home, I can answer the front door when they arrive. I can remain on the telephone with you to advise you about what this intruder is doing. Do you need me to repeat my street address? Please tell the officers to hurry..."​

Now you've communicated your concerns and it is all saved on tape forever. You've given directions to your home and a description of the person in your backyard. By remaining inside, it doesn't cause any confusion to the police as to whom is the trespasser and whom is the homeowner. They will also come to see you as a solid and trustworthy gunowning resident and a true crimefighting friend. This certainly isn't "cowering in a corner" as some have said.

~ Blue Jays ~
 
280PLUS said:
To the best of my knowledge, if Capt Mike were to be demoted, it would be to CDR Mike. That's just a semi educated guess though.
Click to expand...

Ahhh yes, he did mention a pool so therefore must be Navy. Thanks.
 
Biker said:
Jus' havin' fun, Bro.
:)
p.s.
Guess I oughta start puttin' some coffee in my Baileys.:neener:

Biker
Click to expand...

While yer at it, pass it around! :neener:

Seriously, though, I think there is a bit of a culture clash here...some folks are in more rural areas, where the likelihood of an accidental "back yard unauthorized visit" is very low. Folks like me are in an area where such things, while still kinda rare, aren't unheard of. Been a couple of times the kids living on the other side of the back fence (teenagers,) have knocked balls over into my yard. Sure as :cuss: I kept an eye on them, (they DO dress like gangbangers) but never felt the need to go all commando/mall ninja on their collective ass.
In any case, I'd say you're definitely better off staying in your house, under at least some concealment/cover, than attempting to confront them outside. Worst comes to worse, they'll try to roll your pad, at which point, they wind up perforated. If it's innocent, they'll bail outta your yard, and nobody gets hurt.
 
First off, let me apologize for the "cower in a corner" remark. I was a little teed off at the dissing Capt Mike was getting and it is reflected in that remark. I'm tired of losing quality members here because of the attitudes of just a few. I already know a few that "don't post here much anymore". All worthwhile individuals to have around. IMHO that is detrimental to the board.

Second off, I understand the concerns of those who recommend staying inside. That probably IS the most correct response in regards to personal safety. However, if you are living in an area where break-ins have occured, (as do Mike and I) staying inside to let whatever is happening take it's course while waiting for the police to arrive only allows the thieves the advantage. What if they're not looking to break in. Maybe they're just casing the neighborhood for the next mark. IMHO I'd rather get out there, get a good eyeball on them and what's going on maybe get a license plate # and let them know that at least SOME of the people in the neighborhood ARE proactive in protecting their property. At the very least they may decide to pick another neighborhood. Maybe word WILL get out that the guy who lives in Capt Mike's house turns into a crazed gunslinger and the thieves working his neighborhood will probably, at the very least, skip his house for easier prey. Chances are they are locals who know the neighborhood and WILL hear this. Sometimes the best defense IS a good offense.

It so happens the houses all around me were hit one night, they even got away with a few CARS!! My house was skipped. I think it was because of the "veteran" plates on a couple of my trucks. My guess is they didn't want to run into some Vet that might have guns and knows how to use them. Around here people think that having a Vet plate means you've seen combat although ANY Vet with a DD-214 can get them. That MAY have worked in my favor. Or maybe they saw all the trucks lined up and figured quite a few people live here. :p
 
I have to agree that there is a cultural difference here. That may be the best way to describe it. I guess if you live in an area that has massive amounts of break-ins/home invasions, you would be prudent to be more agressive in your response.

For those of us that do not live in that environment, it is hard for us to imagine needing to take things to that level. Story, One day long ago, I was sick and at home from school. I see two guys run past the window with ropes. Finding this odd, I start looking out the window to see what is happening. I see tham just as the round the back of the house. Somone in a more crime-ridden neighborhood wold probably be freaking out and getting ready to go Rambo, me, I just walked to the other window and looked out. Sure enough, a horse had gotten out and they were rounding it back up.

So, should they have stopped and knocked on the door and ask permission to get thier horse?

IMO, no, first mission for them is to secure the horse before it gets hurt or damages somthing.

I live with a "trust thy neighbor" and "give the bennefit of the doubt" additude. Could it get my in touble, sure, did a couple of times in south El Paso and Kansas City. But here in Idaho, naw, No need to drop to DEFCON 1 at the fist sign of trouble.

If I lived in such a place where I couldn't trust people, I would move post haste.
 
Hi 280Plus-

By remaining in one's home, one hasn't sacrificed any tactical advantage as compared to needlessly going into their yard. If anything, if the numbskulls try and enter one's home, the homeowner is still at a distinct advantage. Walking from indoors to sunny outdoors (or vice versa) changes the amount of ambient light on the order of 3000% as measured by the human eye.

By observation, if the person looks at the swimming pool, opens the filter, dumps the debris, and starts to size-up the job in front of him...one can be fairly sure it is simply a new poolman getting ready to do some skimming, brushing, and cleaning. Just watch for another two or three minutes to be certain.

The goal as pro-RKBA folks is to get through our lives without ever having to resort to the firearms on our hips. My firearms have thankfully never been fired in anger and have only punched holes in paper or gone hunting for dinner. It is my sincere hope that it will remain that way!

~ Blue Jays ~
 
GOOD JOB CAPT. MIKE!!!

I have to say that I am very disappointed in the reaction of many of THR members here in this thread! I have been a dedicated lurker for 2 - 3 years now and this thread got me steamed enough to join up and post.

I am from TX I don't know much about laws outside of TX and I am no lawyer here either. However I do study my laws as I have a CHL and don't want to break the law. From what I understand and have been taught by my CHL instructor. CPT. MIKE did nothing outside of the law. 2 stories my instructor told: 1. A man saw 4 thugs in his front lawn trying to break into his SUV he did the natural thing and grabbed his AKM-47 and stepped out the front door 34 rounds of 7.62x39 and 3 dead and 1 fatally wounded bad guys later the problem was solved. no charges, no problems.
The other story is a sad one, a farmer / rancher was sleeping and heard his tractor start up he thought some one was trying to steal it so he grabbed his hunting rifle opened the window and picked the thief off of his tractor seat the guy was DOA but the problem was it was his son who came in to get on the plowing early. No charges, no problems except of course for the emotional and family problems that stem from something like this.

From what I understand of Texas law you can use lethal force to protect your property, you life, some one else’s property or some one else’s life. So Capt. Mike could have dropped that guy with no problems from the law as he was a perceived threat to himself and his property

Mike I wish I had a million neighbors like you! I think what you did was right, responsible and more than called for! I hope if anything like this happens again (God forbid) you post it and let at least me enjoy the proper dispensing of justice!

I think if the pool guy had pulled a shooting iron like some have suggested he do any rights or claims of innocence would have gone out the window along with part of your head as the home owner properly ventilates your head.

If you do stupid stuff like that and some one shoots you for doing it around them its your fault, If you break the law and some one shoots you for it then its your fault.

GOOD JOB MIKE!!!


-DR
 
Agreed on all that, but... :D

When I say the thieves have the advantage, I'm not talking tactical. I mean if they are allowed to roam and or case the neighborhood unmolested and are smart enough to disappear well before the police show up then they have the upper hand when it's time for them to come back. Plus by remaining unmolested in the neighborhood they get the impression the area is easy pickings. Which is what they are looking for. If, instead, they are challenged by a local who spots them as being out of place they may have second thoughts about hitting that particular area and move on to another. Right off the bat, they've been SEEN. If something occurs later the fact that they were seen in the neighborhood could come back to haunt them. Thieves are notorious for moving on to the next place if they think one job won't be easy enough or there's a chance of getting caught. Unless they KNOW you have something that they REALLY WANT they will pass up on you if they think the job is too tough.

Like I said, if whoever is doing the B&Es in Mikes neighborhood hears of his run in with the pool guy, I'd be betting they won't go anywhere NEAR his house.

FWIW, Remember, just because a guy goes into your backyard and fiddles with the pool does not garantee 100% that he is actually the new pool guy.

:)
 
Deathrider1579 said:
I have to say that I am very disappointed in the reaction of many of THR members here in this thread! I have been a dedicated lurker for 2 - 3 years now and this thread got me steamed enough to join up and post.

I am from TX I don't know much about laws outside of TX and I am no lawyer here either. However I do study my laws as I have a CHL and don't want to break the law. From what I understand and have been taught by my CHL instructor. CPT. MIKE did nothing outside of the law. 2 stories my instructor told: 1. A man saw 4 thugs in his front lawn trying to break into his SUV he did the natural thing and grabbed his AKM-47 and stepped out the front door 34 rounds of 7.62x39 and 3 dead and 1 fatally wounded bad guys later the problem was solved. no charges, no problems.
The other story is a sad one, a farmer / rancher was sleeping and heard his tractor start up he thought some one was trying to steal it so he grabbed his hunting rifle opened the window and picked the thief off of his tractor seat the guy was DOA but the problem was it was his son who came in to get on the plowing early. No charges, no problems except of course for the emotional and family problems that stem from something like this.

From what I understand of Texas law you can use lethal force to protect your property, you life, some one else?s property or some one else?s life. So Capt. Mike could have dropped that guy with no problems from the law as he was a perceived threat to himself and his property

Mike I wish I had a million neighbors like you! I think what you did was right, responsible and more than called for! I hope if anything like this happens again (God forbid) you post it and let at least me enjoy the proper dispensing of justice!

I think if the pool guy had pulled a shooting iron like some have suggested he do any rights or claims of innocence would have gone out the window along with part of your head as the home owner properly ventilates your head.

If you do stupid stuff like that and some one shoots you for doing it around them its your fault, If you break the law and some one shoots you for it then its your fault.

GOOD JOB MIKE!!!


-DR
Click to expand...

You should research the law a bit Deathrider. Does Captain Mike live in Texas and does the Texas law you're referring to apply during daylight hours?
I'm not really sure that the story about the farmer greasing his son really advances your argument, but to each his own.
Biker
 
Wow just wow!

At first I was hoping this would be just another mall ninja, joke thread.

Capt Mike, I think you really need to consider your actions a little better.

Our weapons are for preserving the life, you seem pretty anxious to take one.

A firearm is a tool of last resort to protect our life and the lives of people we care about. The man made a mistake by not ringing your bell and hopping the fence, no question about it. However, without seeing a weapon or an aggressive posture (i.e. he was walking toward the pool away from the house) why would you fear for your life.

I think the point when you crossed the line was when you pointed a gun at a man that you saw no weapons on and showed no aggression.

I would have stayed in the house, called the cops, enjoyed your cup of coffee, observed the guy and had my kimber and 870 ready to go.

Don’t point a weapon at something you do not intend to kill or destroy, and well, his actions up to that point would not have made me go outside and actively hunt him. Come in my house and all bets are off.

You shure were a real bad @$$, you had that person covered dead to rights! I shure hope you give the same response when the teenagers frisbee comes over the fence and the kid hops the fence to go to retrieve it. That'll teach them a lesson too!
 
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