Giving the "silent treatment" when pulled over

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Just out of my own curiosity I'm wondering what happens if someone is pulled over for a traffic stop and is asked if there are any weapons in the car and responds no while in fact there. Lets assume everything is legal and there is nothing about them the owner is trying to hide. For whatever reason they're discovered.
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Well, it depends on the placement of the weapons when they're found.

Example (and this only is the way I would treat it):

I contact you for going 20 over. I'm at your vehicle, and have made contact. I ask you if there are weapons in the car, and you reply no.

I secure your information, and are headed back to the car to run the info. I see what I recognize as a gun case--or even a gun stock--poking out from under some other stuff in the back of your vehicle.

I will take into account the totality of the circumstance--your demeanor, your information, the condition of your vehicle, the occupants of the vehicle, the location, your address--EVERYTHING.

At the very least, I will call for backup and get them there quickly.

I will then ask you to step from your vehicle. If you seem to be an OK Joe or Jane, and you're clear and current, I will ask you why you didn't tell me about the firearm in the back. If I have ANY reason to believe that you deliberately lied to me, you get the felony stop.

Example #2:

Same contact as above, only this time I see the gun on your person, or within your area of control. Now, remember that you just told me you didn't have any weapons in the vehicle.

If you're the only occupant of the vehicle, you WILL be staring down the barrel of my service weapon. You will then remove the keys from your vehicle, drop them outside, step out of the vehicle and assume the prone position. Once there, you will cross your legs, extend your arms and wait in that position until my backup arrives. You have no other option.

If you are NOT the only occupant of your vehicle, I will make small talk as long as you don't reach for the weapon. Then--as I noted above--I will return to my unit, break the AR15 out of its rack, chamber a round and wait for backup.

In summary--why lie? I can't speak for back East, but a good percentage of the cops out here are gun savvy, and don't mind talking about them. Especially here in WA State, we know that we have a good thing--a shall-issue state with very few restrictions to speak of. Why lie?

Please remember this--I am out there doing a job--just like every other man or woman who wears the badge. I want to do my job, and go home safely with a good feeling--just like everyone else who has a job of any kind. I do not want to be hurt, and I do not want to be shot on the job.

If I see a firearm and you have lied to me about its presence, what does that tell me about YOU? And, how do I know your frame of mind or intention?

Don't lie. It's stupid to lie--and stupid has a tendency to HURT. ;)
 
What wrong with...

"I'm doing fine, sir. How are you?"

and

"I'm just out for a drive." or running errands, or something else non-specific.

The officer doesn't really care about your personal life. If you've committed an infraction, then I believe he has the right to find out whether you are being a danger to the other motorists who have the same right that you do to be out on the road.

What the officer does care about is getting home to his family, and doing a good job so that he can get a positive review. Saying something to put him on edge is just counterproductive for both of you.
 
I stop answering questions when those questions have nothing to do with why I was pulled over to begin with.

If I have a trunk full of guns, which isn't rare, and I'm pulled over for speeding and he asks me if I have weapons in the car, then I will simply tell the officer that I won't answer that question because it has nothing to do with me being pulled over for speeding.

They're looking for a reason to search, that's all. If they had a reason, he wouldn't need to ask you.
 
If I have a trunk full of guns, which isn't rare, and I'm pulled over for speeding and he asks me if I have weapons in the car, then I will simply tell the officer that I won't answer that question because it has nothing to do with me being pulled over for speeding.

They're looking for a reason to search, that's all. If they had a reason, he wouldn't need to ask you.
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I do get what your saying on a basic level, but by responding with that type of answer you just might end up handing the cop exactly what he is after, reasonable suspicion you are up to something and therefore the greenlight to separate you from your vehicle, pat you down for weapons then search for weapons, even in a state where carriage is legal.
 
"I do get what your saying on a basic level, but by responding with that type of answer you just might end up handing the cop exactly what he is after, reasonable suspicion you are up to something and therefore the greenlight to separate you from your vehicle, pat you down for weapons then search for weapons, even in a state where carriage is legal."



Thats the problem.This person has done nothing illegal and doesn't deserve such treatment

If someone is pulled over for speeding and doesn't want to answer any questions,he should be given his ticket and be on his way.

fact is this is a normal occurrence and thats why there is more and more public hate toward cops
 
I do get what your saying on a basic level, but by responding with that type of answer you just might end up handing the cop exactly what he is after, reasonable suspicion you are up to something and therefore the greenlight to separate you from your vehicle, pat you down for weapons then search for weapons, even in a state where carriage is legal.
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It gives him a greenlight in his opinion. However, they are paid to enforce LAW not OPINION.
 
I guess my question to the cops around here is:

If you pull a guy over for speeding, what the hell do you care if he's carrying a dozen weapons? If he hasn't acted squirrely, why even ask about weapons? If asking just to size somebody up because, well, that's just what you do, why?

If all I've done is speed, it's none of your damn business what weapons are in my car. My transport of an inanimate object hurts nobody. Dependent on whether I am in a free state or not, of course.
 
"For all the police bad mouthing on the forums sometimes, I think thats a big part of it right there. Ultimately you're dealing with people trying to build a career and support themselves and their families. It seems like it would be downright foolish to risk that by trying to pull a fast one on someone. "




This is correct,police are trying to build a career

The incentive to pull a fast one on citizens and violate their rights is that the more arrest cops make,the faster they get promoted
 
The other day some LEO's found 18 MILLION dollars worth of cocaine in a van...


He didn't pull the van over for carrying cocaine... They probably asked some questions, got the wrong or no answer and searched the vehicle.

BTW, I see no rise in "public hate towards cops." That is a stupid statement and one that begs you to evaluate your own attitude. Did you personally take a survey or have some statistics to back up your claim?

Two officers were recently gunned down In Charlotte by some psycho-kid as they were walking back to their cruiser after a stop and the outpouring of grief and support for the CPD and the families of the fallen officers has been tremendous. Please speak for yourself, if you have the courage.


http://www.charlotteobserver.com/115/story/73472.html
 
From S&W910: "The incentive to pull a fast one on citizens and violate their rights is that the more arrest cops make,the faster they get promoted"

I dunno where you live, but it sure ain't Texas or south Georgia. Most cops I've known--and in the last forty years that's a fair number--hate the paperwork just way too darned much. Aside from the greater reality of basic honesty...

Art
 
if you haven't noticed the growing distrust and resentment toward cops over the years you haven't been paying attention or you simply choose to ignore it

so they found cocaine in a van,that doesn't make it acceptable to frequently violate citizens rights

i don't know the circumstances regarding that bust,but if those drugs weren't in plain sight and the driver refused to answer questions he should have been allowed to go on his way

that is the law and that is citizens rights.
 
"BTW, I see no rise in "public hate towards cops." That is a stupid statement and one that begs you to evaluate your own attitude. Did you personally take a survey or have some statistics to back up your claim?"


its easy to find alot of articles like this one

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2001-02-07-bush-cops.htm






Panel would study distrust of police

By Kevin Johnson, USA TODAY

WASHINGTON — The Bush administration is considering whether to create a national law enforcement panel to examine racial profiling, excessive use of force and a range of other issues that police officials say are undermining public trust in the nation's cops.

It would be patterned after a landmark panel convened more than 35 years ago under President Lyndon Johnson. That panel dealt with segregated police forces and dire needs in police training. The one proposed by one of the USA's largest police lobbying groups would address what it calls "a serious gap developing between police agencies and communities."

Bush aides will meet next week with leaders of the International Association of Chiefs of Police to discuss the group's plan. Bruce Glasscock, head of the 18,000-member group, says the talks are aimed at a "top-to-bottom review" of U.S. law enforcement.

"We look forward to meeting with the chiefs," Bush aide Scott McClellan says.

"These are individuals on the front lines in a very important fight."

Recent incidents have drawn attention to increasing complaints about police actions. Corruption among Los Angeles officers assigned to anti-gang duties and the shooting of unarmed African immigrant Amadou Diallo by New York City police are among dozens of incidents that have contributed to an "erosion of public confidence and trust" in police, Glasscock says.

Four officers were acquitted on state charges in Diallo's death. Last week, the Justice Department declined to press federal charges, angering some black residents.

Officials say reviving the 1960s-era panel could ease such tension.
 
I've used one line for years and so far it's four for four in evading a ticket.
Police officer pulls me over (speeding).
I roll down my window and lock both hands on top of steering wheel.
Police officer says "Sir, do you know why I stopped you"?
Me "I've got a pretty good idea but before I incriminate myself why don't you tell me" and I grin.
Police officer says "you were going 250 in a 200mph zone"
Me "I'm sorry, I wasn't paying attention"
and so on and so forth and a "verbal warning" and a good day sir.
 
If you pull a guy over for speeding, what the hell do you care if he's carrying a dozen weapons? If he hasn't acted squirrely, why even ask about weapons? If asking just to size somebody up because, well, that's just what you do, why?
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Well, I guess the simple answer is because I don't make it a point to put "getting shot" on my daily planner.

"If he hasn't acted squirrely..." You really don't want to know how many people I've seen go from zero to a**hole in .03 seconds for no reason that I can fathom--that is, until I run a check on them and find the warrants in the system, or notice the bag of the Colonel's 13 different herbs and spices piking out of their pocket--or for a dozen other reasons.

Bottom line--if I contact a person during normal conversation, I usually--USUALLY--have no reason to be concerned.

If I contact that person because I must intervene, under the law--whether it's for a traffic infraction, a raised voice and angry gestures, a disturbance call, WNATEVER--I have NO way of knowing if YOU are going to be the "one" that I spend so much time training to prepare for...the "one" who might try your damndest to try to KILL me.

And if you can't understand that, I sure feel sorry for you. Many cemetaries have officers interred therein; whose fatal and final mistake was to become complacent and let their guard down--or never put it up at all.

Let me tell you a story about complacency. Maybe you'll understand.

There I was, my first week out by myself. I felt like taking on the world--here I was, a big bad cop--a Reserve Officer, but a cop nonetheless--out solo. I was taking calls and taking care of business!

An informational broadcast came on the air about a armed robbery that had just taken place at a Burger King--described the getaway vehicle, a black Ford Mustang. I filed the info away and continued patrol.

Now, I drove down a road in my jurisdiction. It is a dead end road, but rather long and secluded. At the end of the road, what do I see? A black Mustang!

I call the plate in, and it comes back confirmed! I had THE ONE! Wow! What a rush!

I saw no movement in the vehicle, so I decided to clear it. As I approached the vehicle, I noted a guy walking toward me from the end of the road. He was sweaty, and had on a T-shirt and pants. I, of course, was just focused on the vehicle.

The guy asked, "Do you have a phone where I can call a ride? I just got dropped off here." I told the citizen to "Stay back!!! I'm doing something here. Go back to my car and wait, please." He went past me, and I forgot all about him. When I got back to my car, he was gone. Oh, well, I had more important things to do!!!

The car was clear; another unit arrived to dust for prints and I cleared.

_______________________________________________

During my drive away from the scene, I had a nagging feeling that something was wrong, but I could not put my finger on it.

Then...

It hit me. Like a ton of bricks, it hit me. It hit so hard that I had to pull over, I was shaking so bad.

Why was the guy at the end of a dead end road, with no houses? Simple!

HE WAS THE ARMED ROBBER.

I HAD LET AN ARMED CRIMINAL GO BEHIND ME, NEXT TO A RUNNING PATROL CAR, WITH A SHOTGUN IN THE RACK, STILL POSSIBLY ARMED.

I came VERY close to driving back to the station and turning in my badge. Fortunately--for me--I talked to my supervisor, Lieutenants and Chief. They were all very understanding, and they taught me about the survival mindset. They could have kicked me off the force--after all, I was just a Reservist! But they saw something in me, I guess, and they emphasized that I had learned a valuable lesson--one that is often paid for in BLOOD, and is usually the last lesson the officer learns.

Getting comfortable and complacent is a mistake few officers survive without injury or serious harm. I WILL NOT MAKE THAT MISTAKE AGAIN.

Hope you all can learn something about the cop's mindset from that. Drive safely now, and obey the law. :)
 
Just like there is a small percentage of bad people in the world that cops see everyday that make them suspicious of everybody they come into contact with,there is a small percentage of bad cops that make citizens suspicious toward all cops.and the more people hear about police abuse and violating citizens rights,the more the resentment grows towards police

just look at all the threads ,posts,and discussions on this board about how to deal with police.people discuss these topics because of distrust of police and expectations that they will be mis treated by police
 
K3 said;
I guess my question to the cops around here is:

If you pull a guy over for speeding, what the hell do you care if he's carrying a dozen weapons? If he hasn't acted squirrely, why even ask about weapons? If asking just to size somebody up because, well, that's just what you do, why?
Click to expand...

It's called criminal patrol. The automobile is the primary means of transportation in our country. Everyone uses them, including criminals. Traffic stops are one way we make contact with the public. There are many good criminal arrests made from contacts during traffic stops. Just yesterday an officer I work with stopped a young man who was riding a lawnmower down the street. The officer intended to warn the subject that it was illegal and unsafe to ride a lawnmower in traffic. The officer suspected the subject gave him a false name. A few other questions about the subject's true identity and where he was going on the lawnmower and it was established that the subject had stolen the lawnmower from a garage about a half mile away. It also turned out that the subject had given him a false name. Turned out the subject was wanted for burglary in an adjacent county under his real name. Several burglaries were cleared because an officer decided to give a verbal warning to someone for driving a lawnmower on the road.

If you don't wish to have contact with an officer on a traffic stop, don't break the law. It's really that simple. I've made quite a few good arrests because someone decided to drive 10 or more miles over the posted speed limit, ran a stop sign, drove with a burned out headlight or taillight......

S&W 910 said;
if you haven't noticed the growing distrust and resentment toward cops over the years you haven't been paying attention or you simply choose to ignore it

so they found cocaine in a van,that doesn't make it acceptable to frequently violate citizens rights

i don't know the circumstances regarding that bust,but if those drugs weren't in plain sight and the driver refused to answer questions he should have been allowed to go on his way

that is the law and that is citizens rights.
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Seeing as you admit you don't know the circumstances of that arrest, I don't understand how you can be so certain that someone's rights were violated.

You are aware that there are strict time frames for conducting traffic stops? Detain someone too long and you lose the evidence because you've expanded the investigation from a simple traffic traffic violation into a drug, gun, burglary, robbery investigation without probable cause. A K9 alert is probable cause to conduct a search, however if you keep the person you just stopped for a traffic violation sitting on the side of the road for more then 20 minutes waiting for the K9 to show up and you have expanded the contact from a traffic stop into a drug investigation without probable cause and you will most likely lose whatever evidence you recover in a motion to suppress.

It might be a good idea to do some research before you make blanket condemnations of the police violating people's rights. There isn't any other place on earth where there are so many constraints on how the police may conduct an investigation. The rules literally change daily as the courts write opinions in these cases.

Jeff
 
A couple of years ago, I got popped in MI for 65 in a 45 zone. The statie asked for my license and registration, and asked who's car it was. I replied it was a company car (true). He didn't ask anything else, and I didn't say anything else. He wrote me up for 55 in a 65, otherwise could have cost a lot more.
 
"Nothing personal, but I won't be answering any questions or making any further statements."
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My response to that would be, "No problem. I'll be right back with your summons and you can quietly be on your way." No breaks for that guy...if he did it, it would be on the ticket. He can negotiate with the city attorney/DA after he gets his summons.

For the 13+ years I was a cop the people who passed the "Attitude Test" were the ones I went out of my way to: 1) not even write a ticket, or 2) when they really deserved a ticket but I wanted to give them a break I'd write a chicken**** ticket that could be handled with a phone call to the city attorney's office (expired proof of insurance or some such thing) or a minor fine (no seat belt, $10 fine).
 
"My response to that would be, "No problem. I'll be right back with your summons and you can quietly be on your way." No breaks for that guy...if he did it, it would be on the ticket. He can negotiate with the city attorney/DA after he gets his summons.

For the 13+ years I was a cop the people who passed the "Attitude Test" were the ones I went out of my way to: 1) not even write a ticket, or 2) when they really deserved a ticket but I wanted to give them a break I'd write a chicken**** ticket that could be handled with a phone call to the city attorney's office (expired proof of insurance or some such thing) or a minor fine (no seat belt, $10 fine)."






so in exchange for allowing you to snoop around my car and helping you try to find some reason to arrest me i get a lighter ticket,no thanks

why should a honest law abiding citizen have to pass your attitude test and let you investigate them when all they were doing were speeding?

the law says when you speed,you get a ticket.but unfortunately most traffic stops are not that simple with cops wanting to know where you are going,where are you coming from?,do you have weapons in the car ?,can i search your car ?,wait here while i call a drug dog,i will search your car anyway because i thought i saw or smelled something

i have no problems with tickets and respectfully don't answer any questions during traffic stops.if i was speeding give me my ticket and let me be on my way
 
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I'll take a ticket or summons before letting a LEO lead me into an irrelevant conversation about my personal business or effects.

I will not be coerced by "carrot and stick" psychology...the hope (based on threads like this and shows like Cops) that I'll get favorable treatment for answering irrelevant questions, or the fear of unfavorable treatment for being (COUGH) "uncooperative".

The grain of salt with which I take some LEO postings here is big enough to choke a horse. If I were subjected to a felony stop at gunpoint while obeying all laws, civil suit would be my next move.

Anyway, the premise of the whole thread is pretty extreme, but some good points of clarity were made...Politely decline further questioning when it becomes unrelated to driving.
 
its easy to find alot of articles like this one

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...-bush-cops.htm
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Ummmm, that's not a study nor a link to any poll of public opinion. AFAIAC, after 9-11 there was quite a love affair between the public and public safety officers and if this thread is any indicator, that sentiment still exists, for I see only a few posters here who ran out of gas on their first post and are now repeating the same argument.

Why would anyone condemn the entire criminal justice system or society at large based on the actions of a single LEO? Some people, mainly politicians, love nothing more than to crucify some poor LEO who was in a life or death situation, with a split-second to react. Then there are the DA's with political ambitions who will more than gladly drive in the nails by putting a LEO on trial just to satisfy "the community." It's amazing we still get good people to choose a career in law enforcement.

The griping on this thread smacks of someone who has something to hide. The complaining also seems to suggest someone thinks they have a right to do something that is against law and may be PO'ed the LEO may stiff them for it. There was good advise back in this thread, if you want to make a political statement, write your elected representatives. If you are going to give a LEO an attitude, make sure your backside is clean and you have some time to kill, otherwise, don't bitch about what happens. There is no payback for annoying a cop.

If you're that concerned about whatever issue you have, you should stand up and become politically active instead of hurting yourself.

BTW, the last two times I got pulled over, (twice in a 3 months in WV back in 04) I had a nice friendly conversation with the State Trooper. He cut me a break by writing the ticket for 9 MPH over the limit and I was on my way.

The second time, like I mentioned was less than three months from when the first WV Trooper got me. I mentioned this to him, I told him the last time I got a speeding ticket was twenty years ago and now I got two within 3 months. When he handed me the ticket, he said he hoped I was good for another twenty years and we both had a good laugh. He also cut me a good break. They never asked me if I had anything in the van, where I was going or where I was coming from. They seemed like good men, I treated them like that and they returned the favor.
 
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