Gold dot VS. 22 year old Kevlar vest

[KY DAN]

45 acp 185 grain gold dot from when they were sold in 50 round boxes.

I had a vest that I thought I would experiment with, I also fired 9mm fmj and he and copper bullets into this vest.

My observations were hits near the edge of vest made complete pass though and after 10 hits in same area a pass through was possible.

My vest was 22 years old and stopped 9mm and 45 acp rounds you might find in daily life.

 

[Rule3]

Where is the vest??

 

[KY DAN]

Where is the vest??

I will admit I did not take pictures, I have the Kevlar sheets and the shell I cut open to retrieve the bullets from.

I just got excited ahead of myself

It was an interceptor brand according to the manufacturer label

 

[GBExpat]

Cool.

 

[Pew-Pew]

We want pics of vest lol

 

[BigBlue 94]

also fired 9mm fmj and he and copper bullets into this vest.

...9mm fmj and he (High Explosive?!?) and copper...

Hopefully you shot the H.E. last, and probably why you have no pics of the vest

 

[thewillweeks]

I've shot old kevlar and pe plates, they've never failed what they were rated for even the stuff from the 80s-90s. When I buy surplus plates, even for decorations, I get an extra plate and pick the worst looking plate and shoot the daylights out of it.

 

[DustyGmt]

Was it like this?
PBI (Point Blank Interceptor). I've got it doubled up in Kevlar in the mid section along with ceramic plates.... I've never tested it out though....

 

[DustyGmt]

I also have an older Gulf War/Desert Storm Kevlar Frag vest, it came with a couple of shoulder pads, one of the pads was shot with 9mm, .45 and .44. No pass through...... stuff is tough. Definitely don't want to get shot without one on, but even with vest protection I just know, it ain't gonna be no picnic. You might almost find yourself wondering if a clean in and out might feel better, lol.

 

[wcwhitey]

I have multiple back from the early 90’s to present Level II up to IIIA. Kept them all in nice shape, clean stored flat (creases deteriorate the material I am told). Have upgraded all of them with Trauma Plates and appliqué Level III plates (front only as needed) should the need ever arise. I have seen some really nasty old Level II stop .38 and 9mm no problem.

An interesting fact about the level of Armor II, IIIA etc. you have to at least wear a level that will stop what your Department’s, Agency or Unit utilizes in its standard rounds. The idea being frendly fire is how most large agencies determine what level to issue or authorize.

 

[KY DAN]

Was it like this?
PBI (Point Blank Interceptor). I've got it doubled up in Kevlar in the mid section along with ceramic plates.... I've never tested it out though....
View attachment 1067356

That's the thing, is it military or police?

It was given to me out of a trash pile years ago.

 

[DustyGmt]

That's the thing, is it military or police?

It was given to me out of a trash pile years ago.

Couldn't say, got it from a friend of my uncle, guy reminds me of Burt Gummer from Tremors. Very eccentric fellow. Kind of guy whose place you don't show up to uninvited, wouldn't surprise me if there were trip wires and traps around his place... I've heard some interesting stories over the years, lol.

 

[KY DAN]

...9mm fmj and he (High Explosive?!?) and copper...

Hopefully you shot the H.E. last, and probably why you have no pics of the vest

I just caught that, it should have been HP for hollow point lol.

 

[Riomouse911]

The fibers are really amazing stuff, I’ve shot a few older vests too and they stop the bullets the vest level advertised.

I understand that ozone or other airborne compounds may weaken the fibers over time, but in all honesty I feel the “expiration date” is a worst-case situation date for those who abuse their stuff. Even after being worn in days of rainy weather followed by 100 degree desert heat I haven’t had a ballistic vest panel disintegrate, wilt or split seams.

Or maybe, like the 3,000 mile oil change, the five-year date is a way to get more repeat customers buying the product.

In any event, Kevlar vests are pretty dang tough.

Stay safe.

 

[trackskippy]

I took an old German flak vest I picked up back in the late 90's to the range with me a couple of years ago and shot it a couple of times with both 45acp and 9mm.

Nothing scientific here just wanted to see what was going to happen.

I seem to remember when I got them (had a three or four), these vests, while for "flak", rumor had it, they were also supposed to stop up to a 9mm NATO round, but I dont think they are/were "officially" rated for it.

The panels in the vest look like the basic soft armor panels you see in concealment-type vests. No plates, just soft armor panels. When I cut one open at the end to get the bullets out, there were 15 layers of what looks to be kevlar in them. All told, each panel is about 1/4-3/8" thick.

This particular vest has panels that were made in Germany, but one of the others I had, as I remember, had Second Chance panels in it.

I first threw the vest over the target backer with the back panel flat on the board. The first couple of rounds were 45acp. I meant to bring along some 230 grain fmj, but left them on the counter when I left. What can I say, CRS is setting in. What youre looking at here, are 200 grain SWC's running at 850fps.

The first rounds were fired at 10yards. The first round, a 45, knocked the vest off the board, and also knocked a big chunk out of the Homasote board.

Same thing happened with the second. Neither penetrated the panel but did tear the inside of the carrier.

I put it back up and the next round I fired was 9mm. One of my 124 grain FMJ reloads running around 1150-1200fps. It too knocked the vest off the backer, and it did penetrate.

It didnt seem like it had enough "solid" behind it, so I laid it flat on the berm for the rest. These were fired from about 5', and I held the guns as perpendicular to the vest as I could. I fired two more 45's and one more 9mm, with the same results. 45's didnt go through, 9mm did.

I then laid the front panel under the back panel I was shooting, to see if it would stop the 9mm. I fired two rounds again from about 5', and neither made it out of the first panel. Nor did they tear the material on the back.

You can see where the round impacted on the second panel, especially on the back, where it was pushed into the ground.

This is the vest hanging on the backer....





Couple of rounds of 45 and one 9mm through the vest. Pretty boring.





Inside of the carrier. Two on the right are 45, and did not go through. One on the left, is 9mm, and it did.





Front of the panel. You can see the info, and if you look close, a couple of holes.





This is just a pic of the front panel. Nothing penetrated it, but it wasnt directly shot.





This is the backside of the front panel, that was under the back panel when it was shot. If you look just below the top edge in the pic, you can sorta see two lighter spots on the panel, in between the toe of my boot, and the piece of velcro at the left. Thats from the bullet impacts into the dirt. The two rounds that made those impacts, stayed in the first panel. (the couple of dark spots that look like holes on the front panel are actually sweat drop impacts. It was steamy the day I shot it, and the sweat balls were flowing free.





This is what I got out of the vest when I cut it open. 4 45's and two 9mm's.






This vest is dated 1988. Its 31 years old. Keep in mind too, its also just a "flak" vest, I dont think its "officially" rated for bullets.

While you're always told that they deteriorate with age, and they may well, I think a lot of that depends on how they were used and how they were stored.

Not that this one was really stored "correctly", its just been laying on top of a box in the cellar for about 15 years.

 

[wcwhitey]

I took an old German flak vest I picked up back in the late 90's to the range with me a couple of years ago and shot it a couple of times with both 45acp and 9mm.

Nothing scientific here just wanted to see what was going to happen.

I seem to remember when I got them (had a three or four), these vests, while for "flak", rumor had it, they were also supposed to stop up to a 9mm NATO round, but I dont think they are/were "officially" rated for it.

The panels in the vest look like the basic soft armor panels you see in concealment-type vests. No plates, just soft armor panels. When I cut one open at the end to get the bullets out, there were 15 layers of what looks to be kevlar in them. All told, each panel is about 1/4-3/8" thick.

This particular vest has panels that were made in Germany, but one of the others I had, as I remember, had Second Chance panels in it.

I first threw the vest over the target backer with the back panel flat on the board. The first couple of rounds were 45acp. I meant to bring along some 230 grain fmj, but left them on the counter when I left. What can I say, CRS is setting in. View attachment 1067499 What youre looking at here, are 200 grain SWC's running at 850fps.

The first rounds were fired at 10yards. The first round, a 45, knocked the vest off the board, and also knocked a big chunk out of the Homasote board.

Same thing happened with the second. Neither penetrated the panel but did tear the inside of the carrier.

I put it back up and the next round I fired was 9mm. One of my 124 grain FMJ reloads running around 1150-1200fps. It too knocked the vest off the backer, and it did penetrate.

It didnt seem like it had enough "solid" behind it, so I laid it flat on the berm for the rest. These were fired from about 5', and I held the guns as perpendicular to the vest as I could. I fired two more 45's and one more 9mm, with the same results. 45's didnt go through, 9mm did.

I then laid the front panel under the back panel I was shooting, to see if it would stop the 9mm. I fired two rounds again from about 5', and neither made it out of the first panel. Nor did they tear the material on the back.

You can see where the round impacted on the second panel, especially on the back, where it was pushed into the ground.

This is the vest hanging on the backer....

View attachment 1067503



Couple of rounds of 45 and one 9mm through the vest. Pretty boring. View attachment 1067501

View attachment 1067504



Inside of the carrier. Two on the right are 45, and did not go through. One on the left, is 9mm, and it did.

View attachment 1067505



Front of the panel. You can see the info, and if you look close, a couple of holes.

View attachment 1067506



This is just a pic of the front panel. Nothing penetrated it, but it wasnt directly shot.

View attachment 1067507



This is the backside of the front panel, that was under the back panel when it was shot. If you look just below the top edge in the pic, you can sorta see two lighter spots on the panel, in between the toe of my boot, and the piece of velcro at the left. Thats from the bullet impacts into the dirt. The two rounds that made those impacts, stayed in the first panel. (the couple of dark spots that look like holes on the front panel are actually sweat drop impacts. It was steamy the day I shot it, and the sweat balls were flowing free. View attachment 1067498View attachment 1067500

View attachment 1067508



This is what I got out of the vest when I cut it open. 4 45's and two 9mm's.

View attachment 1067509




This vest is dated 1988. Its 31 years old. Keep in mind too, its also just a "flak" vest, I dont think its "officially" rated for bullets.

While you're always told that they deteriorate with age, and they may well, I think a lot of that depends on how they were used and how they were stored.

Not that this one was really stored "correctly", its just been laying on top of a box in the cellar for about 15 years.

I think they are worth keeping around for that reason. A cleanup and new carrier with a trauma plate holder and new trauma plate ($40) would give you a decent set or armor. Even if it was Level II originally, the 124 grain NATO is hot and that would be expected. Hollow points penetrate less. That old thing would certainly stop a stab or slash, sharp flying object. I wouldn’t go back on Patrol with and old vest for sure but worth cleaning, store flat or hang correctly with a few dollar upgrade it’s worth keeping in a closet.

Edit: looking at the pics again it looks like a Level II type, my IIIA’s are 7/16+ thick, 24 layers I believe. Just remember a rifle, any rifle will pass through those like a hot poker.

 

[wcwhitey]

https://bulletproofzone.com/blogs/b...otection-levels-choose-the-right-vest-for-you

Worth the read.

 

[DT Guy]

I was told years ago that sunlight and moisture were the only thing that degraded Kevlar's performance; hence my vest of many years back was built with a light/moisture-proof barrier on the panels.

I was also told that no Kevlar vest (to that date, at least) had ever failed to stop a round it was rated for unless it'd been damaged. This was from a vest distributor, however, so take that for what it's worth.

Larry

 

[Pat Riot]

An old friend of mine that worked as a Deputy for the L.A. Sheriff’s Dept showed me a vest he was wearing when he got shot with a 9mm FMJ (I do not recall details). It stopped the round. It hit him low and left of his heart. It broke one rib and cracked two more. He said “It was no picnic and sure as heck wasn’t like they show on TV”.

 

[bfoosh006]

His Doctor "made" him start putting a Phone Book under the vest

 

[C-grunt]

I found out early in my LE career that kevlar vests wont stop rounds shot near the edge. It doesn't have the flexibility there to catch the bullet. Had an officer take a 40 at the edge (about an inch from the edge) and the round penetrated. Slowed it down enough that the round didn't do too much damage, but he still took a bullet in the abdomen.

 

[sgt127]

Kevlar is amazing stuff. We shot vests that were 20 years past their expiration date. Stored in old Conex boxes. In the heat of Texas. That’s after 5 years of being drenched in sweat and humidity.

Never had one fail to stop a round it was originally rated for.

A wet vest loses much of its stopping power as the water acts as a lubricant for the bullet. However, once dry, the Kevlar seems to bounce back. Hence, the waterproof bag the panels are packed in.

Other “Next Generation” soft body armor wasn’t as durable.

Though lighter, Specter (as I recall) was made of laminated sheets. It was extremely stiff. Uncomfortable and, would begin to delaminate.

I seem to recall Twaron had issues with breaking down also.

Those old Kevlar panels rocked.

 

[CajunBass]

Thank you for funding my pension. I made Kevlar for about 30 years, give or take a few. Started off in the development plant, then helped start up the production facility. I don't know how many times we had it drummed into out heads by the marketing suits. NEVER say "bullet-proof." There is no such thing. If you make a bullet big enough, and/or drive it fast enough, you can shoot right through the center of the earth. What we make is "bullet resistant."

We had a lot of visitors come speak to us, who had some very interesting stories over the years. Unfortunately I don't remember any of them. "What? Go to a meeting? You're kidding? OK..."

I do remember a friend of a friend, who worked security for somebody. He bought a vest himself. It came with a little piece of the material the vest was made out of. He got the bright idea to "test it." Which wouldn't have been so bad an idea, except we at friend one's townhouse in town. He took it out back in her "backyard, lay the piece of material (about 3X5 IIRC) and fired a 38 revolver at it. The bullet impact drove that little scrap down into the ground an inch or more, but it didn't break the first fiber (of course the ground gave a lot). It did leave a really nice imprint of the material weave on the lead core of the bullet though. Surprisingly no cops showed up.

 

[Random 8]

I used to range master for our County Sheriff's department when they used my clubs range. Almost every session, they would have various bullet resistant materials and vests taken out of service to test with various rounds. They were very impressed/horrified with what my evil genius imagination could come up with to penetrate these materials. Since the discussion here is vests, I'll discuss that, and leave out some of the more unusual materials they brought.

The usual suspects, 7,62 Tokarev FMJ and rifle rounds were not especially surprising in penetrating class 3 vests. The surprise came in with hardcast RN .41 magnum (not an especially high velocity loading either), nickle plated 00 buck shot, High Velocity Steel BB shot (marginal penetration of a small percentage of pellets), and some field expedient modified projectiles I will not get into specifics on lest they be used for nefarious purposes.