Gun myths: Kevlar "bulletproof" vests won't stop .22 LR

[PTK]

Short barrels = less velocity, less velocity = less penetration. Most common .22lr pistols have shorter barrels.

 

[Pulse]

is this only for Kevlar or also for other, more mordern, materials like Dyneema or Spectra?

i am asking because i used to wear a Kevlar west and inside those vest we where preaty secure against most "proper" handgun rounds, but even a junky with a needle could punch a hole in to them, let alone if they had a Knife or Icepick.
after a while we where issued west made from Dyneema, wich not only was a tiny bit lighter and more confortable to wear, but they also claimed that Needles and most knifes could not penetrate them and even with a Icepick you would need a very high amount of force to punch a hole in to it.

 

[Robert]

When I worked as a Trooper the Second Chance rep told us that our IIIA vests would stop anything up to and including a .44 mag. Now thankfully I never had to try this out, but if it were true that a .22 would pass right on through a vest I would venture a guess that they would have mentioned this when they wanted me to buy trauma plates. At least as a selling point...

 

[1KPerDay]

Everything credible I can find says that Type I will stop .22 LR lead round nose. So I can't imagine why the 'higher' grades wouldn't.

Almost every occurrence of the following seems to be copied from the same source, I believe. Example here:
http://www.njlawman.com/Feature Pieces/Body Armor.htm

Armor Level Protects Against
Type I
(.22 LR; .380 ACP) This armor protects against .22 caliber Long Rifle Lead Round Nose (LR LRN) bullets, with nominal masses of 2.6 g (40 gr) impacting at a minimum velocity of 320 m/s (1050 ft/s) or less, and .380 ACP Full Metal Jacketed Round Nose (FMJ RN) bullets, with nominal masses of 6.2 g (95 gr) impacting at a minimum velocity of 312 m/s (1025 ft/s) or less.

Encyclopedia > Kevlar vest
A bulletproof vest – also called body armour (U.S. body armor) – is an article of protective clothing that works as a form of armour to minimize injury from being hit by a fired bullet. They are commonly worn by police forces and the military.
The above name is somewhat of a misnomer since most such protective vests are of little or no protective value against rifles regardless of the type, style, materials or caliber of the rifle ammunition (ammo) or even against handgun caliber ammo fired from a rifle. (The exception is the common .22 LR, which can usually be stopped by these vests even when fired from a rifle.) These vests are generally protective against handgun ammo fired from handguns--again, regardless of type, style, materials or caliber of the handgun ammo.

Here’s a guy shooting 5 rounds of .22LR into a vest, followed by 9mm FMJ. None penetrate. I don't speak Dutch so I don't know if it's Kevlar or not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j5AzJP0ANA



This is a 20-year-old Kevlar vest.
http://www.tarafore.net/KevlarResults.html
“There's an "urban legend" going around that a .22 bullet will go right through a bulletproof vest.
Myth busted. It didn't even penetrate the first layer of Kevlar.”
http://www.tarafore.net/Kevlar/22Rifle.jpg

“The outdated, pre-1987 manufacture Kevlar panel stopped all of the edged weapons and pistol-caliber ammunition we threw at it [INCLUDING .22 LR]. It did what it was supposed to do, better than I had anticipated. The only thing that got through that I thought would not was the M1 Carbine round. Even the outdated vest stopped the threats it was designed to stop, and more. “


This guy shot a kevlar vest with a bunch of stuff (EXCEPT the 22 LR). The 22 MAGNUM went through.

http://fateoflegions.blogspot.com/2008/03/part-3-ballistic-vest-live-fire-test.html

 

[Geronimo45]

PTK - how did you test the vest(s)? Did you set it up against a hard surface? I think NIJ testing puts the vest over jello/ballistic clay/soft stuff.

 

[NG VI]

9 mm 147 GR, Winchester Ranger +P JHP, 4.5 inch barrel 1325 ft./sec. + 50-0

Where can I get some of this 147 grain @ 1325 FPS Ranger? I'd rather have it in HST, but whatever, 147/1325 seems like a hell of a combination. Typo maybe?

I still have some of the legal "nuclear" rounds, though. Damn things are ABSURDLY powerful.

Is the SS190 really noticeably hotter than the two "sporting" rounds, and also was the bullet itself any better in terminal performance or was it just the whole soft-armor defeating thing that got it bad press?

 

[PTK]

PTK - how did you test the vest(s)? Did you set it up against a hard surface?

Wet phonebooks.

Is the SS190 really noticeably hotter than the two "sporting" rounds, and also was the bullet itself any better in terminal performance or was it just the whole soft-armor defeating thing that got it bad press?

It's hotter, better penetration (steel plate, Kevlar is a joke, etc) but WORSE than SS192LF for damage to soft tissue. It's just better at piercing.

 

[Pulse]

Here’s a guy shooting 5 rounds of .22LR into a vest, followed by 9mm FMJ. None penetrate. I don't speak Dutch so I don't know if it's Kevlar or not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j5AzJP0ANA

ha!
those are the exact wests we got issued after one of the the guards got stabbed by a Junkie.
that company, Engarde, only makes Dyneema wests, wich they claim is better then Kevlar.

 

[Wolfebyte]

Level I has defeated .22 LR since the 70's... That was one of the first rounds that a "Bullet Proof" Vest was designed to defeat.

I've heard the same thing, for years, also heard that it was the 22 caliber rounds (.222, .223, 22-250, etc) that they were referring to.

The 5.56 caliber is not defeated until you get to a Level III vest.

http://www.nlectc.org/Lists/JUSTNET Resources/Attachments/370/selectapp2001.txt

NIJ Standard-0101.04 establishes six formal armor classification types, as well as a seventh special type, as follows:

Type I (.22 LR; .380 ACP). This armor protects against .22 long rifle lead round nose (LR LRN) bullets, with nominal masses of 2.6 g (40 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 320 m/s (1050 ft/s) or less, and against .380 ACP full metal jacketed round nose (FMJ RN), with nominal masses of 6.2 g (95 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 312 m/s (1025 ft/s) or less.
..............

http://www.nlectc.org/Lists/JUSTNET Resources/Attachments/1281/stnd0108.txt

Type III (High-Powered Rifle)

This armor protects against the standard test round as defined in section 5.2.5. It also provides protection against most lesser threats such as 223 Remington (5.56 mm FMJ), 30 Carbine FMJ, and 12 gauge rifle slug,

 

[Eagles6]

I think a lot of this comes from data showing that .22 caliber bullets will defeat a vest. 22 Hornet, .223, .222 Rem, .222 Rem Mag and it was confused from there.

 

[1KPerDay]

That's what I assumed. But he was very clear that it was .22 Long Rifle rimfire rounds. Said he saw it go through.

I say he was drunk.

You will note that none of the info posted here specifically states that level I (or any above) will definitively defeat high velocity plated .22 LR rounds. Just that the kevlar vest was originally intended to defeat the most common rounds encountered by police, the .22 LR and the .38.


And I can't find anything that says that it ever actually did and does stop the .22 LR.

Some of the sources say Level I will stop .22 LR lead round nose.

Does that mean it will stop the lubricated lead rounds but possibly not the plated ones? Or should I assume that lead round nose means all variants of .22 LR since they're all essentially lead, though some are plated?
I'd appreciate any additional info anyone has.

 

[CajunBass]

I made Kevlar from 1976 until March of this year, when I retired. We had a ballistic testing lab on site. I'll have to give the boys in the lab a call and see how the poor people are doing.

I'm sure they'll get a kick out of this one.

 

[1KPerDay]

Thanks, I'd appreciate that.

 

[CajunBass]

Does that mean it will stop the lubricated lead rounds but possibly not the plated ones? Or should I assume that lead round nose means all variants of .22 LR since they're all essentially lead, though some are plated?
I'd appreciate any additional info anyone has.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no such thing as a "plated" 22 LR bullet. Long rifle bullets are all lead. There are copper washed bullets, but the copper washing is so thin that it can be scratched off with a fingernail. 22 Magnum bullets are jacketed the same as many other bullets.

 

[1KPerDay]

Yeah, I realize they are all lead. Wouldn't 'plated' describe the 'copper washed' ones? A thin "plating" of copper? Or is there a different process where some other bullets are plated?

I didn't know the .22 mags were jacketed, though... thanks.

 

[Bad Penny 03]

22lr defeat kevlar?

BS.

soft lead slug at so-so velocities.

BS

no Class II or IIa or III vest.

 

[tsidorus]

the only way I can see this as true is if someone mistook the old flackvest made of balistic nylon as a kevlar vest... And thos were never meant to stop bullets...

-Tsi

 

[PTK]

I was getting almost 1400 FPS out of CCI ammo (round nose MiniMag, I believe) when it defeated the vests of unknown quality. FWIW, anyway...

 

[akodo]

.22 40 GR, LR FMC, 22 inch barrel 1850 ft./sec. + 50-0

From the http://www.pinnaclearmor.com/body-armor/ballistic-chart.php that .22LR is listed under what the type II vest will stop. The list is of stuff that type II-A WON'T stop, but that type II WILL.

It makes a small amount of sense. 158 grain 357s are defeated by lower classes of vests than 125 grains, yet most 158 grains will penetrate deeper on flesh (and treelogs) and have more energy and momentum. I guess velocity is the key, which is why the 5.8 FN round works even with less energy than a 45 acp.

It would be interesting to clock exactly how fast you have to get the 22LR going before it could penetrate.

and I guess when oyu think about it, ANY bullet could penetrate a vest if you get it going fast enougn.

 

[Firethorn]

Wet phone books were probably too stiff. And/or the vests were worn/defective.

I don't see there being that big of a velocity difference in 3" of barrel.

A type 1 vest might not work against a high velocity round, at close range. They're also out of standard production. Probably partially as a result of people to trading up in round size, combined with advances in technology making better protecting vests lighter.

 

[f4t9r]

Well, why not have a "chip in" for a brand spanking new vest, and someone can shoot the crap out of it and post the results..?

I will shoot it up. Send me the vest. Could you make sure it is a XXL

 

[fingerbanger]

By this theory the mighty .17 hmr is king. All hail .17hmr "vest buster" Now the law enforcement community just got a cold chill down their spines.

 

[PTK]

Actually, if you could get a FMJ .17HMR, I'd bet it would go through a vest quite easily...

 

[fingerbanger]

You might be right about that. I have often wondered about the .17hmr. Checked out the "Box of Truth" guy and found nothing on it. but it would be neat to find out.

 

[woodfiend]

Ummm. On this website below, it shows that the "ballistic blankets" that they have will stop fragments and .22LR. I imagine a full-on kevlar vest is more protective than a "ballistic blanket".


http://bulletproofme.com/Ballistic-Blankets.shtml