Gun myths: Kevlar "bulletproof" vests won't stop .22 LR

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By this theory the mighty .17 hmr is king. All hail .17hmr "vest buster" Now the law enforcement community just got a cold chill down their spines.
Yes a FMJ 17HMR has quite a bit of factors in favor of it defeating thin soft barriers.
Most rounds are designed to expand (penetrate even less) for use against rodents. In fact they are designed to practicly come apart as soon as they hit the rodent, so they would penetrate horribly.
A solid FMJ would have a lot of penetration of a thin soft barrier. A solid copper round even more (and bullets .22 and below are immune to the Federal Restriction on percentage of bullet jacket weight.)

Penetration does not equal penetration. There is many different types of penetration. Momentum penetrates some things better, and velocity penetrates other things better.
A shotgun slug will not penetrate many vests that a 5.7 (just a fast .22) will. Yet shooting something like a deer the same slug would go through one side and out the other, while the .22 would only go a few inches under the skin.

The smallest diameter and hardest round requires the least amount of energy to penetrate something like a vest. The larger the diamater or softer the round the more energy is required to defeat the barrier.

That is why an arrow or dart shape requires the least amount of energy for a level of penetration, and why something like precision designed steel flechettes have huge penetration for very little energy. They are hard steel, and the penetrating point is very small.


Consider that the FN 5.7 round from a pistol is just a .22 at speeds similar to a .22LR high or "hyper" velocity round from a rifle. In fact at 1800 FPS a hyper velocity FMJ .22 would be about the same as a FN 5.7 from a pistol.
Most 5.7 rounds from a pistol go 1500-1800 FPS from a ~5 inch pistol.

A .17HMR round goes 2300-2500 FPS from most HMR platforms, and has a peak velocity around a 18-19 inch barrel.
The .17 diameter requires less energy than the .22 diameter round to defeat a soft barrier just like explained above.

So yes the 17HMR FMJ is a soft body armor defeating round. Since most .17HMR rounds are designed for tiny rodents, the average round poses little threat with rapidly expanding bullets.

However just because a round defeats armor does not mean it will do much to the human body. A .17 or .22 inch hole in thier body (which will have no expansion) will not prevent the individual wearing body armor from drawing and returning a hail of lethal rounds. Such small holes often close up on themselves, further reducing blood loss. Without the rifle wound characteristics such a small diameter wound channel will not likely incapacitate.
So a .17 or .22 would only be effective against body armor from a full auto firearm.
The 5.7 rounds are designed to partialy compensate for what would be horrible terminal performance by bending and flipping in tissue. They only achieve that some of the time with the LEO only rounds.


So defeating armor does not mean the round becomes deadly against those wearing armor. It just means it enters thier body, and does so after losing a good deal of energy defeating the vest. A well trained individual should then be able to return fire with such moderate wounds. They may or may not survive the wounds, but that will usualy be decided long after the gunfight is over and hey have had ample time to return fire.
 
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You might be right about that. I have often wondered about the .17hmr. Checked out the "Box of Truth" guy and found nothing on it. but it would be neat to find out.
The box o truth usualy tests penetration in water, walls or other media. A thin soft vest tightly woven is a different type of penetration than a water jug requires.

A 5.7 for example has very limited penetration in tissue and similar things like water. Yet it defeates some levels of soft body armor.
A standard foster shotgun slug would go through numerous jugs, walls etc but would be defeated by the same armor (though it might still kill through blunt trauma transfer.)

One type of penetration does not equal another type of penetration.
 
Come again? What federal restriction?
This part of 18 USC sec. 921(a)(17)

(B) The term "armor piercing ammunition" means -

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and
which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other
substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass,
bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

The ATF has currently decided that it covers all rounds chambered in any handguns. That would appear to be incorrect as the statute says "designed and intended" but it is thier definition and what they enforce regardless. So essentialy all cartridges except those exempted chambered in any commercial handguns are included in the restrictions.
So every round chambered in any handgun, whether in a single shot thompson contender (which makes the law cover most rifle rounds) or anything else falls under these restrictions according to the ATF interpretation.

So only rounds that are not larger than .22 may legaly have jacket weights that exceed 25% of thier total weight.
Lead is soft, and jacket material must be fairly thick to resist rapid deformation. So a thick jacket made of hard material in front allows a round to penetrate thin barriers better. The softer the round the quicker it deforms. The quicker it deforms the worse it defeats thin barriers.

Think of it like your fist. Make a very loose fist and punch your other hand. Now with the same amount of force repeat with a tightly closed fist.
The loose fist deforms quicker, doing less damage even with the same amount of force.
The same happens with a bullet during penetration. Even though lead has more mass, giving more energy, it deforms rapidly on contact. So the forward energy and momentum is greater, but the actual application of that energy is different.
Also as it expands it inceases diameter, and the larger the diameter the more energy is required for the same level of penetration.
Since lead still has the best mass of a cheap material, the ideal penetrating round is one that has a very hard material for penetration in front, yet the BC benefits of lead.
Or more simply, a round with a very thick hard jacket material.
( Most actual AP rounds of course just use a sub-caliber penetrating rod, but that of course has even worse ballistic wounding potential because it has even less diameter which also means it needs less energy to penetrate.)
Since most soft body armor works by spreading the energy over a wider area, a softer bullet that can be deformed helps the armor defeat it. A hard bullet, or even a sharp bullet concentrates its energy on a single spot and is harder for the material to spread the energy to a wider area before it is defeated.

In fact it is really no different than why a sharp knife of a hard material cuts better than a dull knife of a soft material. A knife edge is simply a wedge. The sharper the knife the more of the energy is applied to a smaller surface, wedging apart or "cutting" the material being cut better.
The harder the material the better it holds and uses that edge, resisting deformation (or dulling.)
The same principles, just at a much faster rate apply.
In ballistics though mass is also very important, making heavier hard materials preferable to lighter hard materials.
Things like hardened tungsten become more ideal than steel because of that mass resulting in a better BC.
 
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The reason a .22 is dangerous to a vest is because it exerts a large amount of force in a very small area. Effectively it is concentrating its force on only a few fibers of the vest rather than spreading out and applying it to many. That being said, any high-power rifle round is going to pretty much blow right through a vest. Even the army's best Interceptor armor is only rated up to 7.62x54R (30-06 equivalent, except steel core which means greater penetration), and many modern cartridges far exceed that. 7mm Remington Magnum, .300 Win. Mag., the list goes on.
 
So what about these "all copper" rounds from Barnes used in the 500 and 460 and many other calibers like the 45 and 357's?

How about a 45-70 in a BFR using some of the Solids that are available out there? Or even a contender in one of the large caliber rifle rounds with the same type of bullets?

What about a 30-06 with AP rounds out of the same? The list goes on...

So are these rounds typically "illegal" now because of their ability to be fired in a handgun?
 
When the LE Park Rangers were trying out their current vests, they put several on logs and put water jugs behind them. A 1 ounce slug knocked the log over, but did not penetrate. Their issue 180 .40 S&W Hydra-shocks didn't penetrate. The .223 went right through and the log barely moved. I'm not sure what the rating on that vest would be, but he said it is about like a heavy sweater.

-Polish
 
Well I sent him all the info I found and he insists that it's flawed.

He also said that the copper-washed or "plated" .22 LR rounds would go through.

He won't listen to reason... he apparently had watched some test in person. I asked him how the test was actually performed... was the Kevlar in a finished vest or just loose sheets? What was the material behind it, etc.?

No clear answers yet.
 
Wasn't there a guy who sold vests who would shoot himself with a .22?

I seem to remember seeing a video of it.
 
No documentation, and I have no way of knowing how old the vests were or what conditions they were stored under. All I can do is share my experience.
They could also have been milsurp flak jackets, which a lot of people seem to think are "bulletproof vests" but aren't. I'm sure .22LR will go through a flak jacket.
 
Wasn't there a guy who sold vests who would shoot himself with a .22?

I seem to remember seeing a video of it.
It was a .357. The first guy who popularized vests with the police. Huge brass ones hangin'.
 
Kevlar-maybe, plate-nope. But again my pet peeve, nothing is bulletproof there is always something that will go though it.
 
average round poses little threat

I still don't want to be shot with anything,

Bullets put holes in stuff, put a hole if the right place, you die.

Stopping isn't everything either, BFT, while a 500S&W might not "bust" a vest the Blunt Force Trauma, could still cause internal bleeding leading to death.

Wanted to add my .05
 
Wasn't there a guy who sold vests who would shoot himself with a .22?

I seem to remember seeing a video of it.
Richard Davis, founder of Second Chance body armor. I think he usually used handguns that were issue by whatever dept. he was demonstrating for. The NIJ said his lightweight zylon vests didn't meet their standards and thus wouldn't give them a rating so this was his way of saying "oh really??"
Velocity is king. That's why itty bitty 55gr bullets going 3000fps will zip right through vests that will stop 230gr bullets going 900fps.
 
Be aware that 5.7x28mm won't penetrate any vest rated to stop .357, given equivalent ammo.

All non-restricted 5.7x28mm and .357 loads are stopped by IIIA and most are stopped by II. Restricted police/military only loads (both 5.7x28 and .357) will penetrate II and IIIA, but not III.

2004ish Safariland IIa, II, and IIIa vests. Not flak jackets.
Do you know the testing protocol? You have to have a backstop of the right firmness or else the Kevlar gets pinched and cut. People are soft, and the vests are designed with that in mind; wrap a II or IIIA vest around a landscape timber instead of clay, for example, and you can get loads to penetrate that would never penetrate if the vest were being worn by a person.

That is one reason the NIJ specifies the testing protocols so closely, because the backing has to approximate the resistance of a person wearing it for the results to be valid.
 
Okay, I took out an old Aramid IIIa panel I had to use for today's test. Yes, it isn't a Kevlar panel, but I could not find any useful kevlar panels in the pile. This will have to suffice. It is 10+ years old - was part of an officer's vest for at least 5 years, sat in a garage for at least 3 years, and I have had it for 2 years. I have also used it in 10 other shooting tests in areas other than the quadrant in which I was shooting today.

I fired three .22 lr hypervelocity rounds into it from a distance of less than 1 foot from a Chipmunk bolt action rifle with a 16" barrel. The impacts were roughly 2" apart. As seen on the reverse side of the impact area, none of the rounds went through the panel. While I did not have the clay that NIJ uses for a backing, I did use a pile of rain-soaked dirt that was firm enough to walk on, but that I could push my finger into - in short, it had a high clay content.
 

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