Great Cartridges But NOt Popular

[steveracer]

I tried to have an M1a built in .250 savage many years ago, but ran out of money before I ran out of project. Maybe I'll do that again.

 

[helotaxi]

When you split hairs there's really nothing 280 does that 270 doesn't do better and did first with its higher pressure rating. There's only .007" difference in bullet diameter betwixt the two so in my book they're close enough to be considered the same.




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about

The biggest difference between the two is bullet availability. The .280 has the .270 beat soundly there. Using the .280AI chambering that has become increasingly common in modern "semi-custom" factory rifles the .280 is in theory, on paper the better cartridge. 99% of people would never be able to appreciate the small difference. I personally shoot the WSM versions of both.

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

Another vote for the 6.5 X 55mm Mauser. Why Remington saw fit to try to replicate it with their brand name on it is beyond me though. The .260 is indeed a niche cartridge that answers a question only a very few people ever heard. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it fits a short action, so what? First prove you personally can shoot well enough to have that make a perceptable difference in either your livelihood or ability to take game. Hmmmph! Didn't think so.

I owned a 5mm magnum back in the day. It was a big time WOW!! for me. I was a poor college student who missed meals & sweated blood to get it. It was worth it IMHO. Then Remmie quit making the ammo and I've never forgiven them for it. Would that I could find out who made that marketing decision & discuss it with them in a dark alley.

900F

 

[tahoe2]

the "not popular" I own

280 Rem

300 Savage

8x57 mauser

375 Winchester

I handload for all of these, and so they live on !!

 

[helotaxi]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it fits a short action, so what? First prove you personally can shoot well enough to have that make a perceptable difference in either your livelihood or ability to take game. Hmmmph! Didn't think so.

Easier to mount a scope on a short action in many rifles. That and the difference in bolt throw are my only reasons for a short action preference. The .260 is a very logical cartridge choice and the real question should be why it took so long for it to become a standard cartridge. At this point I would argue that a lot more people are shooting the .260 than the Swede. That would make which a "niche" cartridge? With most US rifle actions, to chamber for the Swede, you have to go to a long action. At that point why not take advantage of the full length of the action and go with a 6.5-06 or a real hotrod like the .264 Win Mag or 6.5 Rem Mag?

 

[R.W.Dale]

Both 6.5x55 and IMO 260 loaded "right" require a long action

6.5x55 goes up over 3" in col

In my experience "short" actions are kinda pointless. I have identical guns in 223 and 30-06 and if I was handed one or the other blindly I wouldn't be able to tell wich was wich.

Mini actions for 223 or shorter rounds make sense but IMO what we commonly refer to as a short action is just a marketing ploy.




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about

 

[R.W.Dale]

The biggest difference between the two is bullet availability. The .280 has the .270 beat soundly there. Using the .280AI chambering that has become increasingly common in modern "semi-custom" factory rifles the .280 is in theory, on paper the better cartridge. 99% of people would never be able to appreciate the small difference. I personally shoot the WSM versions of both.

What task specific bullet can you get in 7mm you can't for 270? Both calibers Max out at the same 180 grains

Folks like to get all hung up on the absolutely heaviest end of the bullet range for a specific caliber in these comparisons. YET nobody actually shoots these bullets at target or game with just about everyone selecting projectiles from the middle of that calibers weight range. A range where 270 and 280 are identical




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about

 

[musicman10_1]

I enjoy shooting my 7-30 Waters in a T/C handgun. I have found it to be good (maybe great) but it is not very popular outside of certain circles and based on factory ammo availability and variety I would say that it is unpopular.

 

[NWcityguy2]

I like the 6.5x55, my main centerfire rifle is a 6.5x55, but I think the cartridge is exactly where it should be popularity wise. It is easily available when buying online but people aren't buying it here in the states without actively seeking it out.

Unless you reload its two newest competitors (260 and 6.5 Creedmore) are simply better choices all around. They aren't tried to the 160gr RN chamber, have more powerful factory offerings and american companies sell people ammo with brass that is actually in spec for the cartridges.

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

If your top considerations for using a short action are bolt throw and scope mounting, I can't give creedence to the arguments. If bolt throw truly is a factor, then all I'm hearing is: I'm not sure about my first shot, but I'll take it anyway. As far as the scope mounting factor goes, it's about as valid as picking which set of gossamer wings to fly to the moon with. Are you kidding me!?

900F

 

[Gtscotty]

Not sure where you got the idea that the 6.8 wasn't popular. The only cartridge more popular in the AR is 5.56/.223. More companies make rifles, barrels and ammo for the 6.8 than all the other "secondary" cartridges combined. It hasn't caught on in other platforms because it doesn't offer anything new or special like it does in the AR.

Being a DISTANT second in popularity on a single type of rifle does not a popular cartridge make.

While the 6.8 has developed a small following among a subset of AR owners who like to hunt with their AR rifles, it definitely does not belong in a list of "Most popular cartridges"..... It does however belong in a list of "Great cartridges that really should be more popular".

BTW, I think the 6.8 is a great candidate for use in small, light bolt action rifles like the mini-mausers or the CZ 527.

 

[lefteyedom]

308 norma / 30-338

Winchester should have been on the ball in the late1950'S and legitimized the 30/338 as the 308 win mag. Well could should would have.

256 newton /6.5-06
Mr Newton was sadly 30-40 years ahead of his time. If he had had slow burning powders... If worm had machine guns bird wouldn't mess with them...

 

[Kachok]

I like the 6.5x55, my main centerfire rifle is a 6.5x55, but I think the cartridge is exactly where it should be popularity wise. It is easily available when buying online but people aren't buying it here in the states without actively seeking it out.

Unless you reload its two newest competitors (260 and 6.5 Creedmore) are simply better choices all around. They aren't tried to the 160gr RN chamber, have more powerful factory offerings and american companies sell people ammo with brass that is actually in spec for the cartridges.

Yep the 6.5x55 is one tough customer. Factory loads are in the 30-30/243 level energy range but with better ballistics and SD then either, this is more then you ever need for any deer IMHO. My handloads are quite a bit faster then factory, OK well about 250fps over factory
My friends at the farm are always amazed at how hard a little 6.5mm can hit. They all use 270, 30-06 or magnums and I have tracked deer for all of them, all of mine to date went down right where I shot them Nobody talks trash about my puny gun anymore. That is my favorite hunting rifle.

 

[BoilerUP]

If your top considerations for using a short action are bolt throw and scope mounting, I can't give creedence to the arguments. If bolt throw truly is a factor, then all I'm hearing is: I'm not sure about my first shot, but I'll take it anyway. As far as the scope mounting factor goes, it's about as valid as picking which set of gossamer wings to fly to the moon with. Are you kidding me!?

There are many uses for a rifle...some of which can require quick follow-up shots like varminting or competition and the bolt throw of a long action (especially on a R700) requires breaking cheek weld and losing sight of your target, to say nothing of the speed of bolt manipulation or risk of short-stroking. Also, its perfectly reasonable for a person to want to mount an optic without using a one-piece base or extended rings.

Both of which are logical reasons for preferring a short action over a long action.

Then again, I'm the goofball who built a 223AI repeater off a Savage 110 long action just because I could. But I also limited the bolt throw...

 

[RPRNY]

Great but NO LONGER popular: arguably America's first wildcat cartridge, the 35-30/30.

Developed to salvage worn or pitted 30/30 and 32 WCF barrels, it is simply the 30/30 necked up to 35 caliber. Great with GC cast bullets and, in a 336 for example, can be loaded far in excess of .35 Rem factory loads to the edge of .375 Win factory levels. There's also an AI version and CH4D has dies for both.

 

[MCgunner]

The winner has to be 223. It packs a punch for as small and light as it is, has hardly any recoil, and has been known to stop an elephant with a single shot (heard it on the internet so it must be true). It is a rare cartridge and I don't personally know where you could possibly find one, but if you are lucky enough to shoot one, you'll be bragging about it too.

You KNOW why it's so good, don't ya? The bullet tumbles, ya know. It's true, heard it on the internet.

 

[Gtscotty]

You KNOW why it's so good, don't ya? The bullet tumbles, ya know. It's true, heard it on the internet.

psshh... That's only the half of it, the Inter-web told me that after the .223 tumbles it breaks at the cannelure... then the two pieces follow your bones until they find your heart and 'splode it!

 

[CowboyTim]

8x57, under loaded and unloved...

 

[WYOMan]

My answer to this is found in the chamberings listed for the Winchester High Wall and 1886 rifles, the Sharps and Remington Rolling Block rifles. I was going to say 38-40 and 44-40 but SASS took care to revive them.

 

[helotaxi]

What task specific bullet can you get in 7mm you can't for 270? Both calibers Max out at the same 180 grains

Try finding a match grade target VLD in ANY weight for the .277cal. Sierra, Nosler and Hornady make HPBT in weights and lengths appropriate for the 6.8SPC and Sierra makes a midweight for the .270. That's it. Berger makes hunting bullets for it, but not one target bullet while they make more hunting bullet varieties for the 7mm and more target bullets in that caliber still. Hornady makes an AMax in .284 but not in .277. Sierra makes 5 different MatchKing bullets in .284.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Try finding a match grade target VLD in ANY weight for the .277cal. Sierra, Nosler and Hornady make HPBT in weights and lengths appropriate for the 6.8SPC and Sierra makes a midweight for the .270. That's it. Berger makes hunting bullets for it, but not one target bullet while they make more hunting bullet varieties for the 7mm and more target bullets in that caliber still. Hornady makes an AMax in .284 but not in .277. Sierra makes 5 different MatchKing bullets in .284.

You mean like the .277" Berger vld offerings in 130,140 and 150 grains?

Berger calls just about all their vld's hunting bullets now. Its just a marketing change the projectiles are the same


Its not like anyone offers or builds a match rifle in 280 either

posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about

 

[helotaxi]

If your top considerations for using a short action are bolt throw and scope mounting, I can't give creedence to the arguments. If bolt throw truly is a factor, then all I'm hearing is: I'm not sure about my first shot, but I'll take it anyway. As far as the scope mounting factor goes, it's about as valid as picking which set of gossamer wings to fly to the moon with. Are you kidding me!?

Regardless of how sure I am with my first shot, the animal might not cooperate. Heart shot on my mulie this year at 25yds and while I was perfectly sure, he wasn't. Put another one in him even though I knew the first one was right where it needed to be cause I'd rather ruin a little meat than track for hours or risk losing him. Add to that 3 coyotes in short succession on the same stand. An elk stand mind you.

And I hate having crap hanging over the action lower than it has to be on a hunting rifle. Just one more thing that brass can hit and fall back into the action when I need that quick follow up. Don't say that it can't happen because it did to me this year while elk hunting. Was sure of the shot until I slipped while taking it and missed completely. Brass didn't cleanly eject and I missed my opportunity at the other one in the herd trying to clear the action. I need the scope low to the action to get a good cheek weld and that rules out a full rail. I've tried with my one long action hunting rifle and even with the lowest rings of the type that I wanted installed, the scope was way too high. I have an extended front base on the rifle now but it wasn't my first choice and there are far fewer good options for a long action so it is a very legitimate reason to prefer a short action.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

I guess I'm a little partial to the .351 Winchester. It's really a pretty good cartridge for what it was designed for.

 

[helotaxi]

Berger calls just about all their vld's hunting bullets now. Its just a marketing change the projectiles are the same

Except that they did change the design of the forward portion of the jacket to help them expand better. Two of the 7mm offerings are the same shape, though the jackets are different and they wear different part numbers, but there are 3 7mm bullets that are completely unique within the target and hunting lines.

No one makes a match .280 because...well why? There are better options in 7mm to base a match rifle on and there are plenty of those out there. No one makes a match rifle in any .277 cal cartridge. The point remains that there is a much wider selection of bullets available in 7mm, especially with regard to long range use. In like bullet weights on the heavy end of the range where you would expect the .277 cal to hold an advantage in BC thanks to its higher sectional density, the .284 bullets actually hold an advantage because the .277 bullets are pigeon-holed into "hunting" bullets and end up with crappy form factors. Take the Nosler Partition for example. The .284 160gn is a spitzer style while the .277 is a semi-spitzer. The difference in BC is nearly 10%. In pretty much every style of hunting bullet, the .284 has higher BC bullets available. Not that big of a deal for some, but a very big deal for others.

 

[Swampman]

why not take advantage of the full length of the action and go with a 6.5-06 or a real hotrod like the .264 Win Mag or 6.5 Rem Mag?

Maybe because it's not needed for a particular application...?
Dead is dead and venison soup on the hoof isn't particularly appetizing.

Since when is the 6.5 Remington magnum a "real hotrod"?