Gun Show Curmudgeon

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Its called respect.

Yo, nut, respect works both ways. The dealer embarrassed the father in front of the son, IMO.

Not everybody deserves respect. Especially someone who is blatantly disrespectful of others.

And any dealer who is so incredibly stupid as to run off a customer in such a fashion is obviously too stupid to make it.

But you have a nice day, you hear?
 
That's really a pity. I'm always encouraged to see young shooters. I'm glad the other vendors didn't give the same problem.

As an aside, I'd go for the Buckmark over the Walther P22. I have both, and I love the Buckmark. Walther is unreliable and not a great firearm for marksmanship.
 
sometimes... there is more to life than 'making a sale'
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Not for a dealer at a gun show, who has sacrificed his weekend to stand around a bunch of bargain hunters and tire-kickers on the off chance he can sell something and earn money.

Yo, nut, respect works both ways. The dealer embarrassed the father in front of the son, IMO.
The dealer politely states his terms and you call this embarassing the father, who then calls the dealer "a turd" in public? Hello??
 
Plain and simple.... Not able to handle the gun = NO SALE. What does the dealer expect, for them to "take his word for it?" I sure wouldn't. There is always another dealer that WANTS to make that sale and will treat the father and son with some sort of respect and not a "I am better than you" attitude which I see all to often at gun shows lately.

That is like being forced to buy a brand new car without the option of a test drive.
 
JMHO, we see a LOT of unsupervised, unruly,undisciplined "adorable little tykes" (as another poster so eloquently put it) running around these days in public. They generally trash everything in sight, in order to get the only attention they can ever seem to get from their parents, negative attention.

Most of our rules regarding children in public are specifically imposed to address the PARENTS of these, to be blunt, poorly watched, he11-raising brats.

The most casual observer should have been able to see you with your son, OP, and tell the difference.

Maybe he has enough sales without your business that he can just spout regulations and insult you. Who knows?
 
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Not for a dealer at a gun show, who has sacrificed his weekend to stand around a bunch of bargain hunters and tire-kickers on the off chance he can sell something and earn money.

No. The dealers enterprise requires he work weekends. He has not "sacrificed" anything - this is when he works. "Bargain hunters and tire-kickers" are prospective customers. Part of any salesman's skill is CONVERTING a tire-kicker into a paying customer. It's called making a sale. If he only has an "off chance he can sell something and earn money", then he should consider another line of work. Long story short, he is not there out of the goodness of his heart, providing a public service for which we should be eternally grateful. He's there to sell guns and make a buck, which works out well, because we are there to buy guns with our hard-earned dollars, and provide the seller with some margin of profit.
 
Not for a dealer at a gun show, who has sacrificed his weekend to stand around a bunch of bargain hunters and tire-kickers on the off chance he can sell something and earn money.

IMO there is no sacrifice. the dealer takes the same chance as the buyer. the dealer pays to play and so does the buyer. period. after paying for parking, paying admittance and getting raped for a hot dog with no cilli and a coke yeah... i'm looking for a deal. 20 bucks deep and i haven't bought anything yet. impress me!
if the process annoys the seller then i would suggest the seller find another vocation. my guess is that will happen soon enough. oprah winfreh reruns go all day on Saturday. have at it.
 
You know, in case you haven't realized this or not, most of the guys at gun shows are getting older. A lot older. There are fewer and fewer youngsters at the shows. There are fewer hunting licenses being sold every year, and fewer youngsters at the matches every weekend. We need young blood in this hobby, and unless the dealers show a little respect for youngsters at the shows we're not going to get then interested in guns.

I have been attending gun shows as a dealer since 1963 and I think I've seen just about everything. I have no problem with a man with his child in tow asking permission to handle a pistol for the boy. That's how they get interested in guns. On the other hand I agree that loose youngsters should not be allowed to handle anything. Hell they shouldn't be running loose in a gun show at all anyway.

Now about two years ago I was at a gun show, with a dealer badge on, and stopped at a table to look at a nice Smith. The tableholder had a sign saying "Do not handle without permission" so I asked him if I might look at the gun as I was looking for that model. He looked up from his conversation with a buddy behind the table and rather curtly snarled "The sign says don't handle the gun!" Well guess who I didn't buy a gun from? If you won't let the customer look at a gun, you aren't going to sell a gun.
 
It might have been best to say to the seller that you were looking for a pistol for your son and then ask his opinion.........and then ask for permission to handle the firearm. A little small talk goes a long way to establish yourself as an interested buyer. Be friendly, conversational and let the seller do his job.

Thanx, Russ
 
bp cowboy

When it was time for my kids (around 13 or 14 years old), to move up from a .22 rifle to a .22 pistol, I took them to the local gunshop. They always have a great selection of guns for them to try out. I tried to take them at a time when traffic at the store was slow so that we wouldn't tie up any of the salespeople with our selection process. This procedure has always worked great for us and may be a viable alternative to dealing with some of the less personable dealers you might find at your local gunshows.
 
The difference between a kid running loose and handling guns and a boy next to his father are two entirely different things. I would have walked away in a minute and probably called him a lot worse than a turd. In fact even if I had just witnessed the event I would walk. I have been to about 6 shows in my lifetime. All in this year and I figured out that one dealer isn't any different than the other in terms of merchandise. Oh sure they have the rare gun guys, but if your selling new I have a lot of choices. There are only 20 tables selling AR's and every model Glock, again I have choices.

Besides, doing your part to encourage young people to get into guns is good for all of us. In 7 years that boy will be a voter. So if a dealer wants to get an attitude, which as a new gun enthusiast I have seen many times already, then I walk. Oh and even though I was ignorant at first and the dealer had to take extra time with me I have bought a G17, a Remington 700 and a Ruger Mini in 3 months. Plus thousands of rounds of ammo, mags, sights, range fees etc. All because one dealer showed me respect.
 
It is an odd fact of life that gun shop owners and dealers at shows (even more) tend to not feel some of the pressure of more -- how to say? -- mainstream salesmen to make the customer feel welcomed and appreciated.

When a dealer starts speaking of not wanting people to touch "his" guns, it shows a very stilted perspective that I don't see from other retailers.

One way of looking at gun sales would be, "The more guns I get into more sets of hands, the more sales I'll make and the more product I'll move." In other words, you gotta swing if you want to hit the ball.

The other seems to be, "People should have to earn the right to handle my wares. If they don't look the way I like, talk the way I like, don't look like they've got the money, or seem to be price-shopping, they ain't touchin' MY guns. And they'll get the message pretty darned quick that I don't want their type in my store!" And, to be fair, a lot of these guys have been in business for decades. 'The customer is always wrong' must be a valid business model for them

Now, if the appliance store treated their refrigerators and high-end ranges that way, we'd all applaud as they went right out of business. But gun shops have a certain odd hold on us. We almost expect a real gun dealer to be a crusty old jerk who is extremely annoyed to be bothered with our inquiries. Pat McManus' character Henry P. Grogan fondly immortalizes the type. Becoming a customer -- bearding the lion in its den, so to speak -- is (or was) a distinct rite of passage for most of us.

The odd thing is that gun sales are through the roof, even in a bad economy. Someone is selling them. Maybe hundreds of thousands of new buyers are learning to appreciate the hazing ritual of buying a gun from the traditional old coot. Or, perhaps, there's a certain class of dealer that is learning to say, "yes ma'am, no sir, and I'll be VERY glad to help with that!"

As W.C. Fields once said, "Ahhh, the good old days. I hope they never come again."
 
Lemme guess, you're not a dealer.
No, I'm not a gun dealer. But I have done shows and encampments as a sutler, selling all kinds of stuff including guns. My family ran a small business from the time I was 14, and I learned a few things from those experiences.

I learned that I am there to serve my Customers - without them I have no job and no chance of making any money.
I learned to be patient with tire-kickers and bargain hunters - because they were potential Customers and it was my job to "woo" them into being buying Customers.
I learned from other sellers that if they were terds I got their business, so I decided it was best not to send my business someplace else by pulling the same act.

If a dealer doesn't want me "tire kicking and bargain hunting", I move along someplace else. Somebody else does end up getting my business, just not the curmudgeon - I shop hard before I buy, and I feel no obligation to buy from a given dealer just because he has the kind of gun I want (I do have a favorite dealer I am loyal to - I pay more in his shop for guns I could get on line, because he's a nice guy, an old fashioned customer-first businessman, and has treated me right). If a dealer has a "don't handle the guns sign", I move along. If there is a sign saying handle them, I do. No sign? I ask politely.

And if I brought my son to a table at a gun show, and the experience was anywhere close to that the OP had, I would enjoy purchasing the gun someplace else, and then making sure Curmudgeon saw me walk by with my purchase for my son (I don't live in CA or NY).:D
 
Most places I've been to the sellers were at least passing polite.

I vote with my wallet. A lot.

Vendors get to be rude to me ONCE...

...then I cast my "ballets" elsewhere.
 
It is an odd fact of life that gun shop owners and dealers at shows (even more) tend to not feel some of the pressure of more -- how to say? -- mainstream salesmen to make the customer feel welcomed and appreciated.

When a dealer starts speaking of not wanting people to touch "his" guns, it shows a very stilted perspective that I don't see from other retailers.

One way of looking at gun sales would be, "The more guns I get into more sets of hands, the more sales I'll make and the more product I'll move." In other words, you gotta swing if you want to hit the ball.

We almost expect a real gun dealer to be a crusty old jerk who is extremely annoyed to be bothered with our inquiries.

Unfortunately I have seen this attitude a lot. I have also seen some workers at gun shops who were very cordial and eager to please, both young and middle aged. I don't recall seeing a younger worker who had the stilted attitude, but I don't see many younger workers in these shops.

Unfortunately, the attitude and the prices some gunshops try to charge are all caused by the laws. It isn't easy to get an FFL, and people often don't have many places to go. If a gunshop is the only game in town, then people don't have much of a choice of who they want to patronize. We can get great deals online, but then we have to have it shipped to an FFL, who might charge such an astronomical transfer fee, that we may as well have bought it from them to begin with.
 
I would not have bought anything from that dealer either.

You can't buy a gun without handling it anymore than you can buy a pair of shoes without trying them on. I have found that the chances of running into a butthole dealer like this are greater at gun shows, than if you just go to your local gun store.

I am guessing that a lot of the FFL who have chimed in here are gun show dealers.
 
Back before getting an FFL I helped another dealer out at shows. He kept his guns in display cases on the table so that people couldn't just reach out and grab one off the table - they had to ask first. He said that before he got the cases the people at the show would take them off the table, then drop them onto other guns so you'd end up with 2-3 new guns that were now scratched up.

Also, his rule was that only one gun was out at a time as he didn't want to risk having one stolen, and every time a gun crossed the table it was checked to make sure it was unloaded.

That said, if a parent was there purchasing a gun for a child we had no problems with having the child handle the gun to make sure it would be comfortable to shoot.
 
Not everybody deserves respect. Especially someone who is blatantly disrespectful of others.
Exactly.

As an aside, I'd go for the Buckmark over the Walther P22. I have both, and I love the Buckmark. Walther is unreliable and not a great firearm for marksmanship.

My girlfriend got my a P22 for Christmas. It's the first .22 pistol I've owned and I like it. Although... It can be kind of picky on ammo. Has loading issues if it is not cleaned/oiled properly. But, since I didn't pay for it, and it looks cool. I like it :)
 
We have one of those crusty old curmudgeons in my town too... He runs the shows and has a shop front. He and all but one of his counter staff are of the same cut of disrespectful, unwelcoming, "don't touch my stuff" mentality, both at the shows and in the shop. The shop's been on the market for over three years now... He's slowly loosing his butt...

I go by and browse every once in a while, and stand around for a while, and smile a lot, and say things like "wow! they don't treat folks like that over at _____" and "really? you expect people to buy things when you treat them like this? You do know that _______ is right down the road, and not only are the prices better, but the folks are nicer too!" .

They get hot, and I offer to buy the shop again, but only if he will sell the inventory for what it's appraised at... It's funny how I almost always get the chance to make that offer in an almost empty shop. (I've offered full asking price plus appraised inventory 4 times now, but the deal always breaks at the brokerage because he's such a curmudgeon, and worse yet, he thinks "his stuff" is special, so he won't sell it at appraisal. He's trying to sell the inventory of his business at full retail in the sale of the business... sigh....


The bottom line is that some of these dealers think they are special because they are a GUN DEALER. What a load of crap. They are salesmen with a product that sells to a limited demographic. If they survive in the market with that kind of an attitude it is an oddity of gun buyers that will tolerate that behavior. I, personally, won't tolerate it, and I simply vote with my wallet, and let as many others as psossible know why I vote that way. It's my way of opening up the market for decent men and women to make a living without having to compete with jerks. (or turds, for that matter!)
 
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Ugh. I hate crusty old dealers, and there are a lot of them and quite a few on these boards. I've managed a retail pet store for 10 years and have learned that making a good impression on a kid is almost as good as a sale that day. If the kid likes you, the parents like you and you have a customer for life. Even when we have booths at reptile shows I do my best to let people handle the merchandise so they leave with a smile. Is it a pain? Sometimes. But at the end of the day there's more to life than money. Making a lasting positive impression on a young kid is a pretty good thing.
As long as permission is asked, it should be granted or you're a crusty old "turd" who needs to find a nice rocker on the front porch to sit in while you curse at all the "hoodlums." Better yet, find a cabin in the sticks somewhere and spare the rest of us your misery.
 
bp cowboy
By your statement, you walked over to another man's firearms, picked them up without permission and then called over an 11 year old child to do the same. I am a male in my 60s who has handeled firearms since I was around 10. I never saw my father touch another mans firearms without asking specific permission, and neither have I. Nowhere do you state you cleared the weapon you picked up without permission, or instructed your son to do so. I have been an armorer in the Army, a civilian range master, a scout instructor and I find your conduct reprehensible.
1 It is not your property
2 You are exposing and training a child (your son) in unsafe procedeures
3 You are teaching a child to blame someone else for your incompetnce
Call that dealer anything you want, the weapons are his, not yours, and any call on handling or safety is his to make not yours. I have been at funerals for people I have trained with in the armorer course who were killed by unsafe actions of others. They never got to VietNam, they were killed in the states by idiot GIs who called them a lot worse than turds because they insisted on proper handling. Call me anything you want, I will still tell you to put down any weapon I own and stand back if I think it is necessasary to do so. And last, BEFORE YOU PICK UP ANY FIREARM FROM ME, OR THAT I OWN I WILL CLEAR IT BEFORE I LET YOU NEAR IT.

blindhari
 
It is an odd fact of life that gun shop owners and dealers at shows (even more) tend to not feel some of the pressure of more -- how to say? -- mainstream salesmen to make the customer feel welcomed and appreciated.

When a dealer starts speaking of not wanting people to touch "his" guns, it shows a very stilted perspective that I don't see from other retailers.

One way of looking at gun sales would be, "The more guns I get into more sets of hands, the more sales I'll make and the more product I'll move." In other words, you gotta swing if you want to hit the ball.
You might want to try going into a high end antique store sometime with a child and letting him run around and see what happens.

The more guns you get, the more wear and tear you get. What is the point of putting a gun into someone's hands who has no ability nor desire to pay for it?
 
hari, your post speak volumes of a mentality like the curmudgeon.

The guns are all cleared and locked open with zip ties. I am not aware that I needed permission to handle the firearms, since there were no signs or cards indicating as such. As I mentioned, I used to have an FFL and worked numerous gun shows. The gun show mgmt specifically informed us that if you did not want people touching your gun, then put up some placards. For one the issue was not "Permission". The issue was my son handling them, even after I conveyed I was interested in the purchase for my son.

I had set a budget of 400.00 for a nice quality .22 and was ready to buy, but due to mentality like yours he lost a potential customer.
 
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