Guns no longer welcome at Starbucks

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Njal Thorgeirsson said:
He is acting very reasonably. HERE'S WHY: 1) Starbucks has previously had an entirely neutral stance on firearms. Having pro-gun rallies there is a blatant attempt to scare the antis. 2) It would have been smarter on the part of gun owners to ONLY open carry there if they normally open carry on a daily basis. We should have treated Starbucks for what it is, a gun-neutral business. The anti's could have tried to sensationalize it all they want, but we should have just ignored them by simply continuing to go about our daily routines, not by combating them.
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Well said.

I said the same basic thing in another forum.

I believe that if people had treated Starbucks the same as any other business, the memo would not have happened. Want to open carry? Fine. Also want to go to Starbucks? Great! ...get your friends together and make an issue out of going to Starbucks while you carry rifles? Please don't...well, they did...and this is where we are.

I'm all for open carry. I'm all for exercising Rights and Liberties. Regulars of this forum should know that. But we aren't talking about Rights and Liberties when it's a private business and private property.
 
Though I can't drink coffee for medical reasons - and wouldn't drink Starbuck's anyway - some of the responses in this thread make me want to buy more of my hot tea there.
 
They kill their own

The responses on this thread is a perfect example of how the Liberals keep winning.

When a conservative does something controversial fellow conservatives fall on him with pitchforks, condemn him and casts him from their ranks.

Compare that to the Liberals. When one of their own slips they close ranks around him, support and protect him. Need a example? Look at what they did with Bill Clinton sex affair.

A company stays in business by providing service it's customer base. When they forget that they run into financial trouble.

Starbucks’ primary target market is men and women aged 25 to 40. They account for almost half (49 percent) of its total business. Starbucks’ appeal to this consumer age group through hip, contemporary design that is consistent in its advertising and decor, and working to keep its products current as status symbols. Customers tend to be urbanites with relatively high income, professional careers and a focus on social welfare. This target audience grows at a rate of 3 percent annually.

Young adults, aged 18 to 24, total 40 percent of Starbucks’ sales. Starbucks positions itself as a place college students can hang out, study, write term papers and meet people. Starbucks appeals to this consumer directly through introducing technology as soon as it comes available, focusing on social networking and actively cultivating a “cool” image. The young adult audience grows 4.6 percent each year.

As you can see 89 percent of their customers are LIBERALS.

And most LIBERALS ARE ANTI-GUN.

SURPRISE! SURPRISE! SURPRISE!

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/starbucks-target-audience-10553.html
 
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A pretty reasonable and well-judged, business-minded response from Starbucks.

The CEO is getting beat up by the anti's because of their stance, and this is a GREAT opportunity to support their adherence to local laws with a vocal 'Thank You'.

This is an opportunity to gain another major supporter for our side. The response we give in the next few days/weeks will hopefully solidify our stance as the 'sane' group in this debate.

Let's not screw this up.
 
BSA1 said:
The responses on this thread is a perfect example of how the Liberals keep winning.

When a conservative does something controversial fellow conservatives fall on him with pitchforks, condemn him and casts him from their ranks.

Compare that to the Liberals. When one of their own slips they close ranks around him, support and protect him. Need a example"? Look at what they did when Bill Clinton sex affair.

A company stays in business by providing service it's customer base. When they forget that the run into financial trouble.

Starbucks’ primary target market is men and women aged 25 to 40. They account for almost half (49 percent) of its total business. Starbucks’ appeal to this consumer age group through hip, contemporary design that is consistent in its advertising and decor, and working to keep its products current as status symbols. Customers tend to be urbanites with relatively high income, professional careers and a focus on social welfare. This target audience grows at a rate of 3 percent annually.

Young adults, aged 18 to 24, total 40 percent of Starbucks’ sales. Starbucks positions itself as a place college students can hang out, study, write term papers and meet people. Starbucks appeals to this consumer directly through introducing technology as soon as it comes available, focusing on social networking and actively cultivating a “cool” image. The young adult audience grows 4.6 percent each year.

As you can see 89 percent of their customers are LIBERALS.

And most LIBERALS ARE ANTI-GUN.

SURPRISE! SURPRISE! SURPRISE!

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/starbucks-target-audience-10553.html
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Nonsense
 
I get my coffee from McDonalds (it's ok) and no questions. I won't pay Starbucks prices.
They probably did it for liability reasons.
 
I hate that it came to this, and I could probably armchair quarterback a "better" solution, but I understand it and respect it.

The place for open carry protests is on public property where you actually have the right to carry. Being on private property, particularly that of a business that wants to stay neutral while making money, you are a guest and should be respectful of them. This is akin to having a pro-life or pro-choice rally at McDonald's. It's stupid and irrelevant, and they will ask you to leave.

He made a tough decision, and it will inconvenience some people. He had to do something. We let the antis kick our butts on this one, and we will continue to lose these types of battles to them until we start educating the more "hot-headed" of our pro-gun community.
 
I visited SBux a few times over the past couple years due to their stance along with buying some pre-ground espresso roast at the store to feed my aeropress. I'll just stick to the local coffee shops from now on. Ultimately, they were painted into a lose-lose situation by both the antis and the OCers.

Look at the demographics of their customers - young workers, soccer moms, and college students. Generally not a subset of the population with an interest in the nuances of 2A rights, law, or integral necessity to retaining our freedom. Stick an OCer, even a calm, logical, likable person in the middle of the crowd and for every person who comes up to talk, there would be several who sit back quietly alarmed at something they're not familiar with. You have to wonder how many letters SBux received from the third party of this clusterf - customers who weren't interested in 2A one way or the other, but had Anti and Pro opinion basically stuffed in their faces while they were out to enjoy coffee. Is it right? No; it speaks to the poor situation that 2A proponents are stuck in. But I get why SBux, neither anti nor pro would feel compelled to say, "Enough - we want both of you out of here."

Unfortunately, we played down to the other side and everyone lost.
 
Perhaps it would be best of our members read the actual document in full.

Dear Fellow Americans,
Few topics in America generate a more polarized and emotional debate than guns. In recent months, Starbucks stores and our partners (employees) who work in our stores have been thrust unwillingly into the middle of this debate. That's why I am writing today with a respectful request that customers no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas.
From the beginning, our vision at Starbucks has been to create a "third place" between home and work where people can come together to enjoy the peace and pleasure of coffee and community. Our values have always centered on building community rather than dividing people, and our stores exist to give every customer a safe and comfortable respite from the concerns of daily life.
We appreciate that there is a highly sensitive balance of rights and responsibilities surrounding America's gun laws, and we recognize the deep passion for and against the "open carry" laws adopted by many states. (In the United States, "open carry" is the term used for openly carrying a firearm in public.) For years we have listened carefully to input from our customers, partners, community leaders and voices on both sides of this complicated, highly charged issue.
Our company's longstanding approach to "open carry" has been to follow local laws: we permit it in states where allowed and we prohibit it in states where these laws don't exist. We have chosen this approach because we believe our store partners should not be put in the uncomfortable position of requiring customers to disarm or leave our stores. We believe that gun policy should be addressed by government and law enforcement—not by Starbucks and our store partners.
Recently, however, we've seen the "open carry" debate become increasingly uncivil and, in some cases, even threatening. Pro-gun activists have used our stores as a political stage for media events misleadingly called "Starbucks Appreciation Days" that disingenuously portray Starbucks as a champion of "open carry." To be clear: we do not want these events in our stores. Some anti-gun activists have also played a role in ratcheting up the rhetoric and friction, including soliciting and confronting our customers and partners.
For these reasons, today we are respectfully requesting that customers no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas—even in states where "open carry" is permitted—unless they are authorized law enforcement personnel.
I would like to clarify two points. First, this is a request and not an outright ban. Why? Because we want to give responsible gun owners the chance to respect our request—and also because enforcing a ban would potentially require our partners to confront armed customers, and that is not a role I am comfortable asking Starbucks partners to take on. Second, we know we cannot satisfy everyone. For those who oppose "open carry," we believe the legislative and policy-making process is the proper arena for this debate, not our stores. For those who champion "open carry," please respect that Starbucks stores are places where everyone should feel relaxed and comfortable. The presence of a weapon in our stores is unsettling and upsetting for many of our customers.
I am proud of our country and our heritage of civil discourse and debate. It is in this spirit that we make today's request. Whatever your view, I encourage you to be responsible and respectful of each other as citizens and neighbors.
Sincerely,
Howard Schultz
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I think there's a very serious argument that his "policy" is only against open-carry not conceal-carry, when the one sentence that's being circulated is read in context with the rest of the letter:

We appreciate that there is a highly sensitive balance of rights and responsibilities surrounding America's gun laws, and we recognize the deep passion for and against the "open carry" laws adopted by many states. (In the United States, "open carry" is the term used for openly carrying a firearm in public.) For years we have listened carefully to input from our customers, partners, community leaders and voices on both sides of this complicated, highly charged issue.

Our company's longstanding approach to "open carry" has been to follow local laws: we permit it in states where allowed and we prohibit it in states where these laws don't exist. We have chosen this approach because we believe our store partners should not be put in the uncomfortable position of requiring customers to disarm or leave our stores. We believe that gun policy should be addressed by government and law enforcement—not by Starbucks and our store partners.

Recently, however, we've seen the "open carry" debate become increasingly uncivil and, in some cases, even threatening. Pro-gun activists have used our stores as a political stage for media events misleadingly called "Starbucks Appreciation Days" that disingenuously portray Starbucks as a champion of "open carry." To be clear: we do not want these events in our stores. Some anti-gun activists have also played a role in ratcheting up the rhetoric and friction, including soliciting and confronting our customers and partners.

For these reasons, today we are respectfully requesting that customers no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas—even in states where "open carry" is permitted—unless they are authorized law enforcement personnel.

I would like to clarify two points. First, this is a request and not an outright ban. Why? Because we want to give responsible gun owners the chance to respect our request—and also because enforcing a ban would potentially require our partners to confront armed customers, and that is not a role I am comfortable asking Starbucks partners to take on. Second, we know we cannot satisfy everyone. For those who oppose "open carry," we believe the legislative and policy-making process is the proper arena for this debate, not our stores. For those who champion "open carry," please respect that Starbucks stores are places where everyone should feel relaxed and comfortable. The presence of a weapon in our stores is unsettling and upsetting for many of our customers.
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And those people that say, "Well I will respect them and just carry concealed" are not doing that...
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I agree 100%.
They're not forbidding it, just asking people not to. It's still up to the individual, as it doesn't carry the weight of the law.
Personally, I would do one of two things. I would go through the drive through where it doesn't come into play at all, or stop somewhere else for coffee. But that's just me.
 
[QUO Pro-gun activists have used our stores as a political stage for media events misleadingly called "Starbucks Appreciation Days" that disingenuously portray Starbucks as a champion of "open carry." To be clear: we do not want these events in our stores. Some anti-gun activists have also played a role in ratcheting up the rhetoric and friction, including soliciting and confronting our customers and partners.
TE][/QUOTE]

That point is undeniable and frankly I don't blame him for his sentiments. They have been singled out wrongly by both sides and it is no doubt affecting business from both factions. If the patrons could have just honored the companies non political view of allowing what was legal in a particular jurisdiction this wouldn't be happening.
 
Our Own Worst Enemy

http://www.thebangswitch.com/our-own-worst-enemy/

Most of you probably remember when we (we being the pro 2A community) organized a day to visit Starbucks en masse while open-carrying, to show our support of their neutral stance on firearms. Starbucks has shown their appreciation by responding with the publication of an official, corporate-level policy on firearms. From the linked article:

A memo that appears to have been circulated internally to partners (Starbucks employees) that outlines a new corporate policy of “No Weapons in our Stores” has appeared online. The memo explains once again that the company is neither pro-gun nor anti-gun however due to recent events, and the actions of activists on both sides of the issue, they are instituting a new corporate policy of not allowing weapons in their stores.
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The author explains that the memo says this is not an anti-gun policy, but I can't see how that's true. Thoughts on this?

I also find the author's approach to be interesting. In the last paragraph, he says he will be sure to write a letter to the corporate office expressing his disagreement with the policy, but he also says he'll continue to support Starbucks financially, by getting his morning pick-me-up from them. Is this really the right approach?

I don't post in activism often, and I've never started a thread here, but I found this really interesting, and remembered the threads about Starbucks Appreciation Day in the past. Hope this update isn't off topic.
 
PJSprog said:
I never liked their coffee anyway. It's certainly not worth what they charge for it, in my opinion. This doesn't affect me at all, as I already don't patronize that place.
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No, it may not affect your coffee buying habits, but it could certainly impact your 2nd Amendment rights if this type situation keeps coming up with us on the losing end.
 
hso said:
Perhaps it would be best of our members read the actual document in full.
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Oh now where's the fun in that? Far better to stay ignorant of what the CEO actually wrote and get all angry.


Starbucks wanted to remain neutral on the issue. Unfortunately certain segments of the gun-owning population wanted to pull them into it, just as much as the anti-gunners did.

There was really no reason for us to do that. Their position was fine just the way it was. But no business wants to see it's establishment become a lightning rod of a location for protests, and counter-protests, and upset customers passionately arguing with other customers.

I guess it's not really all that much different from certain bars and rallies insisting that bikers not wear their colors at their business or event.


Starbucks spends a considerable amount of energy and effort trying to promote a certain image about itself and its coffee bars. It's totally within their right to ask that their customers not use them to launch gun rallies, pro or against.
 
They are changing nothing (but threatening to in the future) and are throwing away 4 years of goodwill with a stroke of the pen.

They might have asked for people to refrain from gun-themed meetings and rally which has nothing to do with ordinary customers wearing their guns but they did not which I think is very foolish.

They had the exact right position when they were neutral and deferred to state and local laws.

Mike
 
I saw this on another forum and have to say it certainly doesn't paint responsible gun owners in a very positive light

Ten seconds of google searching reveals some people you all should be pissed at. What's the mentality of someone who thinks that Starbucks would appreciate you taking a selfie with your gun in their store?:

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1014189_602901839732697_1599059858_n-2.jpg

707E3O9MIIG94SCH.jpg
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Really, you normally carry your shotgun or rifle when walking around...or you pull your guns out, place them on the table and take a selfie?
 
It is far from speculative to say that this request would not have been made but for the actions of so called "pro RKBA" activists who took it upon themselves to conduct rallies and demonstrations and undertake the display of firearms at Starbucks locations.

As the saying goes, "hindsight is 20-20", but it would certainly seem that the potential for this outcome was not unlikely, and that it was probably foreseeable.

In our metropolitan area, open carry was rarely addressed in the laws, but after concealed carry became lawful, open carry activists decided to publicly "exercise" their rights, strapped on firearms, and walked around in various urban municipalities. The only variation among the outcomes was the number of days that passed before open carry was outlawed.

When one considers the usual clientele of the Starbucks stores, that many such people would resent demonstrations of the carrying of firearms should not come as surprise.

Nor should the likelihood that a concern such as Starbucks would assess the numerical importance of that part of their clientele as significant to their business.
 
If I saw someone with a shotgun at port arms in a Starbucks, I'd be calling the cops too. Same as for those guys brandishing their sidearms.

This is not 'open carry', but plain stupid.

We got off light with that CEO's letter.
 
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