JImbothefiveth
Member
The guy just had knee and heart surgery, and was lying on his side. I don't think he could get up easily, much less retreat!
Happened Saturday -- what would you do?
- Thread starter JMidJr
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Luckily. What would have happened had the villain come up with any firearm, or not been scared completely off by the miss? What if he recognized the derringer as a slow and limited capacity weapon and rushed the downed, recovering from surgery aging man before he could recock and fire his derringer?
Yes it worked for him in this instance, but if you are going to carry a derringer, you might as well just carry a revolver or autoloader. He lucked out.
loneviking
Member
I'd like to see a statute where you are pulling this conclusion from.
American_Pit_Bull
Member
My thoughts exactly!!!
I would have a long talk with my wife; telling her not to scream "kill him!" during a defensive situation.
Deanimator
Member
Years ago, my late uncle, was a cab driver in Chicago.
A guy with what appeared to be a firearm, attempted to rob him. He wrestled with the guy over the back of the seat, trying to take the "gun" away, during which time, the cab went up on the sidewalk and through the wall of a drycleaners.
After he regained his senses, the robber bolted from the wrecked cab. My uncle grabbed the High Standard .22 derringer he kept in the cab. He fired a shot at the robber, whom he believed to still be armed. He missed, and in the process, shot himself in the index finger, breaking it. He had pulled the trigger with his second finger, with his index finger in front of the muzzle. Returning to the cab, he found a water pistol on the floor of the passenger compartment.
I don't know if the wouldbe robber was ever caught. My uncle was not arrested or charged, this being in excess of forty years ago, when the Chicago PD was crooked, but not gratuitously malicious.
Lessons learned:
1. Derringers suck. Reserve them for contact shots.
2. Know your firearm and practice with it, at least SOMETIMES.
3. Being an armed robber is dangerous. Your water pistol can get you shot just as easily as a real gun could, and probably justifiably under the law. Your victim doesn't have to KNOW his life is in danger. He just needs to have a reasonable belief that it is. In most places, a realistic toy gun qualifies.
A guy with what appeared to be a firearm, attempted to rob him. He wrestled with the guy over the back of the seat, trying to take the "gun" away, during which time, the cab went up on the sidewalk and through the wall of a drycleaners.
After he regained his senses, the robber bolted from the wrecked cab. My uncle grabbed the High Standard .22 derringer he kept in the cab. He fired a shot at the robber, whom he believed to still be armed. He missed, and in the process, shot himself in the index finger, breaking it. He had pulled the trigger with his second finger, with his index finger in front of the muzzle. Returning to the cab, he found a water pistol on the floor of the passenger compartment.
I don't know if the wouldbe robber was ever caught. My uncle was not arrested or charged, this being in excess of forty years ago, when the Chicago PD was crooked, but not gratuitously malicious.
Lessons learned:
1. Derringers suck. Reserve them for contact shots.
2. Know your firearm and practice with it, at least SOMETIMES.
3. Being an armed robber is dangerous. Your water pistol can get you shot just as easily as a real gun could, and probably justifiably under the law. Your victim doesn't have to KNOW his life is in danger. He just needs to have a reasonable belief that it is. In most places, a realistic toy gun qualifies.
If I am a bystander and see this, I might not catch the first part and might not know exactly what is going on, but I am going to address the aggressor, in this case it would be the younger guy digging around in his rig. I yell "stop" "freeze" add explicitives where needed. If the bg turns with a pipe/weapon, I draw and make it real clear to him that I have the upper hand. If he stops/drops the pipe goes along with my commands I make sure someone is on the line with the cops and tell them exactly what is going on, let the cops figure out who is the bg. If he bolts I dont have the need to fire so I dont. If he makes a move for either me, the old man or his wife I yell one more time, then let S&W do the rest of the talkin. Most gas stations have video outside, so that will help the good guy in court. I am sure this has holes in it, but I think it would be the best actions. Hopefully.
I'm just curious.
What is the thought process behind not taking the shot on an attacker when his back is turned? In this situation he is NOT leaving, in fact he is obviously looking for something in the truck which is worrisome . Why do some say shooting the guy in the back would be illegal?? Really, just curious on perspective....is it a state by state thing perhaps?
ALSO
Was any reason determined for the attack? I wonder in what context his past record of violence took place?
What is the thought process behind not taking the shot on an attacker when his back is turned? In this situation he is NOT leaving, in fact he is obviously looking for something in the truck which is worrisome . Why do some say shooting the guy in the back would be illegal?? Really, just curious on perspective....is it a state by state thing perhaps?
ALSO
Was any reason determined for the attack? I wonder in what context his past record of violence took place?
Vern Humphrey
Member
What if he was just looking for his car keys? Or for a first aid kit?
If you've got a gun -- and I'd have an M1911, not a derringer, I'd let him turn back before firing -- just to be sure I could legitimately make a self-defense case in court.
If you've got a gun -- and I'd have an M1911, not a derringer, I'd let him turn back before firing -- just to be sure I could legitimately make a self-defense case in court.
JackBurtonJr
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1) He's already left you and your wife laying, bleeding on the street. I don't think you'll have a problem persuading anyone that you've been attacked by him.
2) And what if he's going to turn with a gun? Your 1911 doesn't fire magic bullets that guarantee that he's not going to live long enough to kill either or both you and your wife.
3) The question really isn't about the odds that he'll turn with one thing or another... the real question is: Considering his immediate past 30 seconds of behaviour are you willing to risk yourself/your wife on those odds regardless of whatever they may be?
Vern Humphrey
Member
But you might have a problem persuading them he was still attacking you when you shot him.
The only reason to not shoot is if not shooting the derringer gives you time to retreive the shotgun you have in the truck.
Apart from that, bang bang
Look, a deadly conflict is underway. The attacker is NOT fleeing.
Just because there is a lull in the fight does not mean the attack is over.
Second, what if the guy turns around with big wrench, tire iron, or whatnot. What if he just turns around with a big killer grin on his face? You going to let him punch and choke you to death simply because he is unarmed? What if he turns around with a first aid kit...which he then smacks you in the head with, or from which he retreives a scalpel, or from which he retreives a gun
No, if the guy regrets his actions, turning to the truck and getting a boquett of flowers to appologize or a first aid kit to fix his own burns or help repair the damage he inflicted, no way in hell to tell the difference between that and him getting a weapon, or just taking a breather before continuing the attack with fists.
If the attacker wants to end the conflict, he better start yelling 'I surrender' while laying flat on the pavement, hands out, nose touching the ground. Anything less, and lethal force is appropriate.
Then later tell the wife to keep her yap shut
Apart from that, bang bang
Look, a deadly conflict is underway. The attacker is NOT fleeing.
Just because there is a lull in the fight does not mean the attack is over.
Second, what if the guy turns around with big wrench, tire iron, or whatnot. What if he just turns around with a big killer grin on his face? You going to let him punch and choke you to death simply because he is unarmed? What if he turns around with a first aid kit...which he then smacks you in the head with, or from which he retreives a scalpel, or from which he retreives a gun
No, if the guy regrets his actions, turning to the truck and getting a boquett of flowers to appologize or a first aid kit to fix his own burns or help repair the damage he inflicted, no way in hell to tell the difference between that and him getting a weapon, or just taking a breather before continuing the attack with fists.
If the attacker wants to end the conflict, he better start yelling 'I surrender' while laying flat on the pavement, hands out, nose touching the ground. Anything less, and lethal force is appropriate.
Then later tell the wife to keep her yap shut
JackBurtonJr
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This ain't the World Boxing Association where you get a "breather" between bells and you and your opponent both acknowledge in advance that you won't hit one another in that period.
Let's look inside the mind of a reasonable person and see what who he thinks has a more "persuasive" argument...
Elderly victim: "There I was, with my wife, attacked without warning, laying on the ground bleeding, stunned, and I thought he was reaching in the car for a weapon so I shot him"
Attacker: "Well, after I beat the crap out of this old man and his wife I was just minding my own business, leaving to go to Bible study. I don't know why he shot me."
Reasonable man: "Hmmmm... now that's a tough choice as to whom to believe." [I think not.]
neviander
Member
Absolutely I would shoot. Now I'm glad I chose to get an Elite match .45 for my main carry piece...now I just need a dang holster for it 
jahwarrior
Member
i would shoot the second he was reaching for something hidden. that's the point i'd be in mortal fear for my life. well, when i took the beating, and saw him break my wife's nose would the real moment, but going for a weapon is going to get a man shot.
deerhunter61
Member
Only problem with what he did...
Was that he missed! Too Bad...We need fewer BGs!
Was that he missed! Too Bad...We need fewer BGs!
doc2rn
Member
Shoot and reload until out of ammo!
Dr. Peter Venkman
Member
How the heck is shooting the bad guy even up for debate? SHOOT.
RocketMan
Member
Careful reading of the OP seems to indicate the bad guy was reaching inside the victims truck door, not his own car door. Only one poster appears to have noticed this distinction.
I am making the assumption the victim was driving a truck based on him towing a boat.
If true, the bad guy might have had robbery on his mind.
It still does not prevent the victim from being able to legally shoot the bad guy from behind, for all the reasons listed by previous posters.
I am making the assumption the victim was driving a truck based on him towing a boat.
If true, the bad guy might have had robbery on his mind.
It still does not prevent the victim from being able to legally shoot the bad guy from behind, for all the reasons listed by previous posters.
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If it were me I wouldn't wait for him to turn; he was obviously going for a weapon. I would have had the right to end him. I would put 4 rounds of .357 mag jhp center of mass and see what he did. If he didn't fall, I would fire those last 2 rounds then draw the .380.
I don't carry a derringer, but I have thought about it for a third weapon.
I don't carry a derringer, but I have thought about it for a third weapon.
American_Pit_Bull
Member
If you wait for him to turn around, you may be lucky to be "persuading" anyone from above ground...
Even if he just grabbed an open pocket knife... You are in such close proximity, that he could lunge toward you (.45acp in chest) and slit your throat.
Flagal
Member
Shoot him in the arm and when he turns around shoot him in the chest or head.
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