Has anyone had to sue UPS for firearms damage?

[stormspotter]

I mailed a Browning B92 to Alabama last month, had it in a padded gun case inside a mailer that a local dealer had received a firearm in and packing around the padded case, and it arrived with the stock broken in two behind the lever/tang. Receiving dealer said it didn't look like the lever/tang was bent or damaged.

Gun was insured, but their insurance carrier denied the claim because of "improper packing". When it was put in their system, the UPS employee at their receiving/distribution office, looked the box over, charged me the shipping and insurance rate and sent it on it's way.

I have disputed the insurance carrier's denial twice already, but keep getting the same answer. My calls to the UPS 800 number have only gotten promises to have someone call me back, but they never do.

I have asked the receiving dealer to return my gun and don't know if I have to start with my local office or go higher up the food chain. I told the local manager that a broken stock does not happen during normal handling it was strange that it was packed well enough for their own employee to accept it, with no questions asked. I did inform her that it was a rifle.

Local manager said he would contact his district manager and have him give me a call. Time will tell.

 

[PRE 64 JOE]

I feel your pain, remember the saying THE SQUEKIE WHEEL GETS THE GREASE, talk to a supervisor and if that doesn't work call back and tell another supervisor that you are not happy.

 

[Sheldon J]

Story time, a number of years back I was at a gun shop N UPS pulled up... The driver was unloading riffles... by simply dropping them off the back of the truck to the ground a good 5' drop, he was just tossing them out onto the dirt like cord wood no 3 had hit the ground before the gun shop owner was out the door like a bullet chewing the guy out.... He had several more he was getting ready to toss too....
UPS drivers make a very good wage so you think they could be more carefully with the stuff they have to deliver.... but some are not.....

 

[Nugilum]

When I worked at a gun shop in NM, we had a UPS guy that didn't care about anything he was delivering. One day he was doing exactly what Sheldon J said except this was rough asphalt.
My boss waited until he finished "throwing" everything out, and then denied acceptance of the delivery due to damaged goods. The guy threw a fit, and tried to deny any damage that was done, including saying that we opened up the boxes and then claimed damages.

The delivery guy was flabbergasted and suddenly speechless when my boss pulled out the security camera tape of the delivery to the guys supervisors.

 

[charliewood]

I had the same experience with U.P.S.. they dont pay!!!
i sent a collector grade browning a-5 shotgun through ups with insurance on it. i had pictures before i boxed it up . this is the setup i used-several wrap arounds of bubble wrap around the rifle , a hard plastic rifle case with the foam egg crate lining it,AND had the rifle case in a cardboard box! I brought it to the ups hub which is here in my city.When the package reached its destination, the outside cardboard box was wrinkled a little on one end of the box. when it was opened, the HARD PLASTIC CASE was busted and the gunstock had a series of hudge gouges in it . it must have fell off a big slide or conveyor belt to do that. UPS would not pay for a replacement stock as they said it wasnt packaged properly!! I DONT KNOW HOW BETTER IT SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEEN PACKAGED, good enough to survive a 20 ft fall on its end i guess. TO THIS DAY I WILL NOT USE THEM UPS SUCKS !!!!

 

[DHJenkins]

There not called "United Parcel Smashers" for nothing.

I've even gotten boxes with boot prints on them...

 

[damien]

"U.P.S.. they don't pay!!!"

Not that I am too litigious, but that is grounds for a class action lawsuit that would bend them over. Find another complainant, sue them, state your intention to go class action, get a list of every claim they denied over the past (insert statute of limitations here) years during discovery, and investigate how large the class is of bad denials. You could make some law firm very, very happy.

 

[nofishbob]

This was not a rifle, but may give you an idea of how UPS treats packages. I shipped a piece of stainless steel pipe with a flange on it, about a foot in diameter and a foot long. The pipe was about 3/16" thick.

I packed it in a double thick box mummified with fiber packing tape.

No way that even UPS could damage this, right?

I'll never know if they damaged the pipe, because they delivered the EMPTY BOX! What they had to do to destroy the box with all that tape boggles the mind.

Somebody does this kind of damage on purpose, and UPS lets it continue.

Bob

 

[Geno]

I worked for UPS in a seasonal capacity when in undergraduate school. The supervisors watched us like hawks...all except one, who was too busy drop-kicking Christmas packages into the closest truck. The packages were to be delivered to his supervisor's residence the following morning. Merry Christmas, right?! Well, someone blew the whistle and he was promptly terminated. There are fools everywhere. Follow protocol. Be patient. Be persistent.

 

[KBintheSLC]

The problem with UPS goes all the way up the corporate ladder. I friend of mine used to work as a top-level executive for the company. He said that the poor service is a result of a trickle-down effect coming from the top. It is a diseased firm with poor ethics, weak leadership, and low morale... resulting in very patchy service at the ground floor.

 

[jfh]

Based on my experiences a few years ago as an online VAR (We modified computer cases and shipped them), you are in for some hard work.

The loophole they used on us when case damage would occur was based on new --as in unused--packaging, and whether the related packaging material was undamaged. In short--even though the cases would arrive here on pallets--e.g., not individually shipped--if the internal packing material showed signs of damage (by their inspection) and / or the carton showed signs of having been previously used--they kissed us off. I worked my way up the corporate ladder, but the only satisfaction I got was talking to a vice-president well-trained in soothing feathers.

I never got any satisfaction, even with pictures of obvious shipping damage--i.e., to the packaging. KBintheSLC is probably on the right track.

Jim H.

 

[unspellable]

"Improperly packaged" is defined as any package UPS can manage to mangle.

Airlines are no better. You should see the beating some of my stuff has taken.

 

[Lurp]

I loathe UPS...Stick with Fed-ex. None of them are perfect, but the best so far for me has been Fed-Ex.

 

[stormspotter]

The FFL I sent it to is going to is going to email me pictures of it in a couple of days. I will post them then.

Until then, this is what it looked like before UPS got their hands on it.

 

[cjw3cma]

In my corporate life as a Director of Procurement for a Fortune 100 company, I had two (2) UPS employees fired for the way they handle our packages. The first time we had attached "Shock Watch" labels to each package of delicate electronics (labels that when subjected to X amount of pressure the vile would break showing the package was not handled according to contract). The UPS driver was throwing the boxes into his truck / I was informed of his actions / had Security train their surveillance camera on him and used the footage not only to have UPS pay for the replacements but his actions cost him his job. UPS paid our company, according to contract, over $250,000 for the damage and replacement parts.
Another time later in my career I saw a UPS driver dropping containers off of his truck that were each labeled fragile. I questioned his actions and he didn't reply so I had his exit blocked so he couldn't drive away and called his supervisor to our facility to question him on his actions, which he began to deny until I had four employees verify what I was saying. Again UPS paid for the damages and this driver was fired.

Make a big stink. UPS accepted the package as delivered to them and once they have accepted payment for the insurance they are responsible. Be prepared with the before and after delivery pictures and make sure that your story is complete / concise and does not vary at all. Also have a written estimate / contract for the cost of the TOTAL repairs to the firearm. Pictures of the package as it looked when delivered will also be of benefit.

They will end up paying but it may take more effort on your part than you would think. If they continue to stonewall you, get your local media involved, get on TV and tell your story. Picket their local facility with pictures of the damage. They will want you to go away but not until you get paid for all of the damage and repair costs.

You are in the right.

 

[.cheese.]

UPS throws packages over the fence at my house. They've even done it with ammo (how they threw something that heavy is a mystery). I've caught them doing it.

This isn't a 3 foot fence either. It's a good 7+ feet or so tall and on the other side is a brick driveway. So, the packages go up over 7 feet into the air, and then crash onto the driveway.

I've also found packages that were handled so poorly that the box had busted open.

Have I sued them? No. Have I yelled at them? Yes. I even called the cops on one, but that was because he was in plain clothes and driving his personal vehicle. So, to me, a guy in plan clothes, not a brown uniform, drives up to my house in his own car, rings the doorbell, and claims to be UPS with a package for me.

You'd have called the cops too I'm sure. The cops were appalled that UPS had sent the poor guy to my house like that. He didn't get in trouble, because he wasn't really the guy responsible. I think the police called the local UPS office and yelled at them though because it never happened again.

 

[rdhood]

Don't know how much the damage is, but there is always small claims court. Usually $25 to file. Get an estimate of the damage from an expert. Sue UPS AND the insurer, if they are not the same. Nothing like getting a higher-up from your local UPS office in court without an attorney. It helps if you had before/after pictures (you need to prove they did the damage).

 

[stormspotter]

I have the before pictures, posted above, and the dealer that received the rifle is supposed to take pictures of the damaged stock and email them to me in a day or two. I will post them when I receive them.

I have contested their denial of my claim and will wait for their reply to that. If that is denied then I will probable take them to small claims court. I have mailed a few guns thru the local office and the employee has never had a problem with the way they were packaged.

More later.

 

[unspellable]

More UPS adventures

UPS didn't bust my rifle, but they left it in the bushes in front of the house.

 

[kludge]

If you buy insurance on an item at UPS it's worthless unless you make them pack it.

They deny EVERY claim, is SOP.

 

[Oro]

How to get their attention and make them pay:

I have been through this with UPS, and auto insurer, and also a health insurer for my GF. When an insurer thinks they can just say "no" and you go away for an expensive bill, they will. So don't go away. But don't pussy foot wasting your time spending hours making phone calls;

1) Get an estimate for repair from a nationally known fire-arms restorer. Better yet, get two or three. Take the two high ones, average them, then make that your claim. It makes you look good that you shopped around.

2) Go to your local court house, and for $25 to $50, file a suit against them in "small claims" court. Usually the maximum in most courts is like $2500 to $5000, so we should be well within that.

3) The way you know who to sue is to go to your state's AG office (web site or call) and they will have the corporate address or secretary on file for UPS in your state. This is the only person who can legally receive a service for a law suit. Have this in hand before you even go to the court to file or you will just have to go back and find it again. It may be a UPS office, it may be an attorney they have on retainer. Either way, that is who you put on the paperwork for the suit.

4) Sit back and wait. They will come to you to settle as they know they will loose in court.

Their whole strategy is out-waiting you and tiring you down. Just skip that step and go straight to small claims court - they've already denied your claim. Also, in most small claims courts, attorneys are not allowed. Thus, they can't send a lawyer, only a corporate officer or manager. Believe me, when they do the math of his lost work time vs. the $450 to you, then they wise up and pay.

This is the way to get them to pay. And if along the way you want to go and find an ambulance chaser to make a class-action out of it, then that might really get their attention. But that is not a realistic outcome here, I don't think.

Good luck. You've learned a lesson many of us have - never use UPS for firearms, or anything else, really. I use them only for ammo, which the USPS will not take. Everything else is done more safely and cheaper through the USPS.

 

[jkingrph]

UPS throws packages over the fence at my house. They've even done it with ammo (how they threw something that heavy is a mystery). I've caught them doing it.

This isn't a 3 foot fence either. It's a good 7+ feet or so tall and on the other side is a brick driveway. So, the packages go up over 7 feet into the air, and then crash onto the driveway.

I've also found packages that were handled so poorly that the box had busted open.

In that case I would wait a while and claim the packages were never delivered, after all they did not get a signature for receipt.

 

[stormspotter]

Oro, I filed a complaint with the state AG today. They, the AG office, said that the Small Claims court would want that done first, to try to get it resolved. If nothing comes of that then I will go to court with them.

 

[KBintheSLC]

Oro made sound advise. Sometimes suing is the only option these sour grape firms leave us.

 

[Deanimator]

Their whole strategy is out-waiting you and tiring you down. Just skip that step and go straight to small claims court - they've already denied your claim. Also, in most small claims courts, attorneys are not allowed. Thus, they can't send a lawyer, only a corporate officer or manager. Believe me, when they do the math of his lost work time vs. the $450 to you, then they wise up and pay.

That's the route that I took when S&W ruined the barrel on the Model 29 that I sent to them for repairs. They thought they'd stonewall me. My lawyer told their corporate counsel that I'd take them to small claims court if they didn't make a reasonable effort to make things right. Shortly thereafter a VP got involved and the situation was resolved about as well as it could be without replacing the gun.