Hi-Points versus Barbeque Guns

[GaryArkansas]

I was looking at a thread about Hi-Point pistols. Plenty of comments by people who've never owned or shot one, but claim to know everything about em.

I've owned and fired Smith & Wesson, Ruger, CZ, Savage, Rossi, Bersa, Marlin, and yes, Hi-Point. I have also used Springfields, STI's, Colts and Glocks. I'm a former US Marine and I was a reserve police officer in a larger city.

You want to know something? The Hi-Point is more reliable than most of the guns that are on that list. Its not pretty (its downright ugly) and its got average accuracy at self-defense distances. The trigger is not match grade, but its better than some others. But one thing that the Hi-Point DOES do - it goes bang when you need it to, every single time. My Hi-Point will happily digest any ammo that I feed it, and takes abuse as well as any gun I own.

Its got a manual safety, a magazine disconnect and its rated for +p ammo. Its also got a lifetime warranty that transfers to whoever owns the gun.

If you want to spend two grand on a custom gun that has gnurled, pearled and squirreled water buffalo grips, that's your right.

But if you bad mouth the Hi-Point because you think that its unsafe or unreliable, you'd be wrong. Don't get me wrong, I like shooting my other guns more, but the Hi-Point fulfills its mission more economically than anything else out there. For someone who can't afford better, its a good choice.

The situation reminds me of my car. I've got a cheap import that gets a zillion miles per gallon, is inexpensive to insure, and has a warranty that's unbeatable. It takes me from Point A to Point B and it runs like a Swiss watch. I know a guy who has a Corvette in his garage that hasn't seen daylight in two years - sure looks nice in the garage. I wonder what he says about my car?

 

[stolivar]

duh, bah humbug

That is straight BS..... period. I have shot my cousins hipoint 45. What a piece of crap. it would only feed fmj bullets.

It broke after only 200 rounds and had to be sent back. You must have received one of the good ones.

The on Hi-point that is any good is the carbine.


steve

 

[rustymaggot]

it has a magazine safety? thats the only reason i need to hate it. sorry, a gun can be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but a bunch of safety bull just ruins em. they build a idiot proof gun and we just build better idiots, and then we are stuck with stupid features on good guns.

for the record, i dont know if ive ever even seen the gun in question. i am biased against the magazine safety.

 

[stolivar]

I agree

A mag safety is the worst thing you can have on a gun. If the mag is just part way out you can't fire the weapon.


steve

 

[3rdpig]

I've been a gun enthusiast for going on 40 years but I don't have a clue what a "Barbeque gun" is, or what "gnurled, pearled and squirreled" means.

Also, anyone who touts a magazine safety as being a valuable feature doesn't know much about guns or self defense, from that point on you lost all credibility with me.

And I hate to tell you this son, but NO ONE buys a Vette for reliabilty, gas mileage or low cost of maintaining it.

 

[nwilliams]

I have to agree with Stolivar and 3rdpig on this one. My friend bought a Hi-Point once and I had the displeasure of putting several mags through it. That said I would never buy one, and my friend quickly traded it in along with several other handguns on a used Glock. We still joke about what a hunk of junk that gun was, felt awful to hold, was horribly inaccurate and just so ugly that its hard not to make fun of it. I will say that I don't recall it jamming, but that still doesn't put it in the S&W, Ruger or CZ category. I agree that you should experience something before slamming it, I can't argue with that logic. However I think just looking at it and holding it is enough to turn most people off from it. The way I see it if you want to trust your life with it over a decent gun made by S&W, Ruger, CZ or the such, thats your decision, I just think there are many who would agrue that logic. Hey its a free county, you can carry what you want, bash what you want, we're all entitled to our opinions and I'll respect yours also.

If you want to spend two grand on a custom gun that has gnurled, pearled and squirreled water buffalo grips,

Not sure what youre refering to? Who says you need to spend 2k on a decent handgun, I don't see very many 2k custom or commercial handguns on the market very often. For that matter what is a BBQ gun?

 

[Autolycus]

So GaryArkansas did you use it as a duty weapon when you were a reserve police officer?

 

[GaryArkansas]

Tecumseh, I used a Model 10 Smith & Wesson, and our cruiser guns were Remington 870s. I didn't like the idea of adjustable sights getting hung up on my jacket, so I stayed away from the K-frames. After I left, they transitioned to 40 cal. Revolvers made by S&W, Colt, Ruger and Dan Wesson were the only authorized guns allowed for on-duty carry.

As to the other comments, "gnurled and squirreled" is a humorous reference that apparently went a few feet over some of your heads. It refers to geegaws on a gun that add cost, but don't make it shoot any straighter or more reliably.

A Barbeque gun is a piece that you spend a bunch of money for, and gets showed to the boys around the barbeque.

Two thousand dollar Les Baer's, Ed Brown's, Wilson's and such are fairly common.

As to the carbine's reliability versus the pistol, its the same action. Makes me think that you've never used or owned either one. I agree, though, the carbines are pretty cool. Currently, some smaller police departments with limited budgets are allowing Hi-Point carbines in place of AR-15s.

Now - be honest. Have any of you ever owned that fancy gun that would only shoot reliably with a particular brand of ammo? Or maybe you blame your stovepipes or FTE's on limp wristing or bad springs? Anything to avoid the fact that your gun may look nice, but isn't all that darn reliable in a pinch?

Anyway, the responses pretty much prove the point I was trying to make - not so much about Hi-Point's bona fides versus Glock or Sig or anything else - just that some of you are pretty quick to condemn something you don't know much about.

Folks here talk about spotty quality control with little or no experience with the gun or the manufacturer. Taurus frequently gets bad mouthed for quality control, when the offending gun and its production line have been extinct for 20 years. Yet, we tolerated the fact that stock Colt 1911's couldn't feed anything but ball ammo for the first 75 years of the model's existence.

Some guys get glassy-eyed and feel faint whenever anyone mentions the M1 Garand or the Colt 1911. But folks, these guns were technologically obsolete 50 years ago. You put a thousand dollars worth of gunsmithing and match grade parts on any gun and you can make it shoot accurately.

My pooint is that maybe we could be a little open-minded about new things. We're pretty accepting of new powders and updated slugs, but we're slow to accept new guns. It took 15 years for polymer guns to make a dent in gun sales, despite their lighter weight and lower cost.

Heck, we can't even discuss 9mm versus 45acp without starting a religious war.

 

[STAGE 2]

Wow... just wow. I was taking you seriously up until you said this...

Some guys get glassy-eyed and feel faint whenever anyone mentions the M1 Garand or the Colt 1911. But folks, these guns were technologically obsolete 50 years ago. You put a thousand dollars worth of gunsmithing and match grade parts on any gun and you can make it shoot accurately.

Number 1, you cant polish a turd.

Number 2, the 1911 is far from obsolete. The garand's time has passed as a battle rifle, but its cousin the M14 is still in use today. As a weapon however, the M1 will still do the job as well as any plastic rifle out there.

For the 1911, you couldn't be farther from the truth. If its so obsolete, why is it more popular now than ever before? Why are there more aftermarket accessories for the 1911 than any other pistol? You'll find 1911's in the holsters of soldiers, LEO's and competition shooters alike. You won't find a SINGLE hi-point specifically adoped for use by any military or law enforcement agency on this PLANET. People who risk their lives on the reputation of their weapons do NOT carry hi-point.

As for me, I've shot them on several occasions. Out of the 3 I shot, 2 never mamaged to make it through a single mag without a failure. Hardly reliable.

The hi-point is a $100 gun. You get what you pay for.

 

[briansp82593]

i spent 600 on my beretta for: relibility, quality, fit and finish, and accuracy. now you cant put anyone of those qualities with a hi point.... hi points are throwaways, used in gangs due to the cheap price which thats all they can afford, or a starter pistol (by that i mean for a race i wouldnt dare put a deathtrap in a friend or relatives hand espically if they didnt know what they were doing) i would take a gun someone made in their garage and feel better about it than a hipoint. hipoint=

 

[nwilliams]

Two thousand dollar Les Baer's, Ed Brown's, Wilson's and such are fairly common.

I wouldn't say any of these are everyday common, Les Baer only has a few models that are 2k or more. Also youre saying that between Hi-Points and Ed Browns's there is no middle ground? Personally I'd rather trust my life to a used $200 RIA 1911 than a new Hi-Point.

nyway, the responses pretty much prove the point I was trying to make - not so much about Hi-Point's bona fides versus Glock or Sig or anything else - just that some of you are pretty quick to condemn something you don't know much about.

You have to remember that people also base their opinions on what they've heard, not everyone can go out and buy one of every gun to determine which is better than another. Its good that you liked your Hi-Point, but for many people Hi-Points are seen as "junk guns" like Jennings or any of those other $100 or less pistols, doesn't mean they are that's just how they are seen.

I have heard a lot of good things about Hi-Points and if you search the web you will find lots of people like them and have had good experiences with them. However to me I don't care for them, and since I have fired one I can safely say this pistol feels occward to shoot and hold, thus I don't like them, simple as that. As a plinker or home defense gun it may be fine, like I said I fired several mags through my friend's .45 and it seemed to operate fine. I just don't think many would trust their life to one, but its still better than nothing at all

Also I forgot to mention that one can't judge a book by its cover, the gun may be ugly as sin but that doesn't determine who well it works. However if you buy a gun with aesthetic value in mind then it places this gun low on the list. That's my last word on this issue!

 

[hotpig]

You are not going to find a Police agency that uses the pistol as a duty weapon. You are not going to find any, or at least very few who carry it for cc. Your not going to find it winning a bulls eye match either.


Why, because it is a piece of ****? The answer is no,it was not made or marketed for those purposes. It is big, heavy,awkward, and there is very limited holsters available.


The 45 seems to be picky about ammo. Well it is still a pretty new model and is not the only 45 cal handgun that is known to be finicky about ammo.

It is made for use on plinking, not match shooting and also home for defense. If you can not hit a man size target on the other side of your bedroom with a Hi Point the problem is not the gun it is the shooter.It is a outstanding gun in those roles for its price.

 

[RevolvingCylinder]

I have some experience with the model in question. The major weak point I've found is the poorly made magazine that wore out exceedingly quick. What makes me uneasy about the pistol is the design of the ejector(pushes on the primer). The only pistol I've found that has inferior ergonomics to it is the Glock XX(enter any number here). I'll never carry either pistol nor own them. I have no use for them.

The Hi-point is a crude pistol that isn't made with any real craftsmanship to speak of. The only thing I can say about them is that they generally work.

 

[ezypikns]

Like the man said.

None of you have ever owned one. Your "cousin did", or you "knew a guy who did", and, "it's a piece of crap". I happen to agree. Like the man also said, it ain't pretty. It's a low end firearm and it may have features you don't like. It IS 100% American made (Ohio). But if it's all someone can afford, it may be an alternative for them. Or if they need protection, should they just do without because it's a piece of crap? I guess a Browning Hi Power is a piece of crap until the mag disconnect is removed?

Some of them may be a piece of crap. Mine went bang for about 500 or 600 rds before I sold it. And never a failure. Can you say the same about all of your guns? We all have our own opinions on things, but shouldn't they be based on something? Like personal experience maybe?

Asbestos suit is on.

 

[Mad Chemist]

Wow, another High Point thread... yawn..

All of this has been hashed out before, use of the search function will reveal thread upon thread ad naseum.

I've fired the 9mm carbine. It wasn't anything to write home about but it was reliable. The handguns are cheap and ugly and they to seem to work for some people, not as well for others.

 

[RevolvingCylinder]

I agree with you, ezy. I've put around that much through one. Most people who call them "junk" have no real experience with one and they're a viable option for those that can't afford anything better. As I said, they're generally reliable. Only problems that were experienced were related directly to the magazine. After some use it could only reliably carry and feed 6 rounds out of the 9 that it is intended for. Not very accurate but I could hit a man-sized target at 25yrds. Not bad for such a crude and unrefined pistol. Yet again, $250-300 can get you something worlds better.

And I thought "BBQ guns" were nickel-plated revolvers.

 

[Monkeybear]

None of you have ever owned one. Your "cousin did", or you "knew a guy who did", and, "it's a piece of crap".

Well I imagine that if one of my friends had a Hi Point I would likely end up shooting it. If after shooting it I thought it was a piece of crap I wouldn't buy one. Basically it makes perfect sense for someone who has fired any pistol and thought it was garbage to not have owned one.

 

[STAGE 2]

None of you have ever owned one. Your "cousin did", or you "knew a guy who did", and, "it's a piece of crap".

Never owned one, but I've used several as I stated above. How many rounds does one have to put through a gun to be able to have an opinion?

But if it's all someone can afford, it may be an alternative for them. Or if they need protection, should they just do without because it's a piece of crap?

When the justification for buying a gun is being destitute that tells you alot about the gun. Not saying the reason isn't valid, I'm just sayin.

Some of them may be a piece of crap. Mine went bang for about 500 or 600 rds before I sold it. And never a failure. Can you say the same about all of your guns?

Yes, I can.

We all have our own opinions on things, but shouldn't they be based on something? Like personal experience maybe?

Personal experience is relative. Ownership is not the be all end all of things. Thats why we test drive cars and rent guns. However a person doesn't even need to shoot a gun to test its reliability. I can stand next to my buddy and watch his gun jam all day long to know its not reliable. The same applies here.

I'm not saying that every single piece of hearsay is valid, but the hi-point has issues from such a large percentage of people that its reliability is suspect at best.

 

[glocktoberfest]

The Hi-Point is more reliable than most of the guns that are on that list.

that's funny , even for a "bait" thread .

 

[jlh26oo]

Wow what a crazy coincidence: another brand new member who goes straight for the "hi point vs $2k POS" thread right off the bat. Well, congrats, you sure know what'll stirr the sherwood. But I can agree with this much at least:

For someone who can't afford better, its a good choice.

So true, so true. And obviously, then, you feel that there ARE BETTER CHOICES (even by your standards) for those who CAN afford to spend more than $200 on a tool to which they trust their lives. Othewise, you'd have not qualified "good choice" with shoppers who cannot afford better.

So GaryArkansas did you use it as a duty weapon when you were a reserve police officer?

Tecumseh, I used a Model 10 Smith & Wesson, and our cruiser guns were Remington 870s. I didn't like the idea of adjustable sights getting hung up on my jacket, so I stayed away from the K-frames. After I left, they transitioned to 40 cal. Revolvers made by S&W, Colt, Ruger and Dan Wesson were the only authorized guns allowed for on-duty carry.

As to the other comments, "gnurled and squirreled" is a humorous reference that apparently went a few feet over some of your heads. It refers to geegaws on a gun that add cost, but don't make it shoot any straighter or more reliably.

A Barbeque gun is a piece that you spend a bunch of money for, and gets showed to the boys around the barbeque.

Two thousand dollar Les Baer's, Ed Brown's, Wilson's and such are fairly common.

As to the carbine's reliability versus the pistol, its the same action. Makes me think that you've never used or owned either one. I agree, though, the carbines are pretty cool. Currently, some smaller police departments with limited budgets are allowing Hi-Point carbines in place of AR-15s.

Now - be honest. Have any of you ever owned that fancy gun that would only shoot reliably with a particular brand of ammo? Or maybe you blame your stovepipes or FTE's on limp wristing or bad springs? Anything to avoid the fact that your gun may look nice, but isn't all that darn reliable in a pinch?

Anyway, the responses pretty much prove the point I was trying to make - not so much about Hi-Point's bona fides versus Glock or Sig or anything else - just that some of you are pretty quick to condemn something you don't know much about.

Folks here talk about spotty quality control with little or no experience with the gun or the manufacturer. Taurus frequently gets bad mouthed for quality control, when the offending gun and its production line have been extinct for 20 years. Yet, we tolerated the fact that stock Colt 1911's couldn't feed anything but ball ammo for the first 75 years of the model's existence.

Some guys get glassy-eyed and feel faint whenever anyone mentions the M1 Garand or the Colt 1911. But folks, these guns were technologically obsolete 50 years ago. You put a thousand dollars worth of gunsmithing and match grade parts on any gun and you can make it shoot accurately.

My pooint is that maybe we could be a little open-minded about new things. We're pretty accepting of new powders and updated slugs, but we're slow to accept new guns. It took 15 years for polymer guns to make a dent in gun sales, despite their lighter weight and lower cost.

Heck, we can't even discuss 9mm versus 45acp without starting a religious war.

So. Many. Words. But that is a NO, correct? Because while you mentioned what you DID use, you did so w/o denying that you wouldn't trust a hi point as a duty weapon.



BTW, do you know what some might say the following statement makes you?

Anyway, the responses pretty much prove the point I was trying to make

(hint: it rhymes with "Trucking FOAL")

 

[pete f]

You stayed away from K frames because the sights snagged on your jacket, yet you used a model 10? how about a 13? or a 63, 64 or 65 ? HMMM?

WE quit selling hi points after we could no longer sell them with good faith they were going to go bang when needed. For the same money we could find good solid used S&W cop take backs, and other well made, safe, used guns we could sell and still sleep at night.

I have shot maybe twenty, IIRC, one shot a full mag without a hang up.

 

[pete f]

Definition. Barbeque (BBQ) gun.

The phrase BBQ gun is an older term often associated with Texas and Political BBQ fundraisers. It now is applied to any eye candy gun which is worn for dress purposes, like big silver belt buckles and silver bolo tie clasps. In the Pre Shall Issue era, both carry permits and the level of political clout needed to ignore such legalities bred a certain level of elitism in what constituted such a gun. Often carry permits were just a letter from a sheriff or a Mayor or Legislator, often written on the back of a business card, saying, __________ is to be accorded all due considerations. signed__________ They were and are (although much rarer) a get out of jail free card.

Often worn by politico's or wealthy political sponsors both to show off their connections in having the ability to carry a firearm in public and to show off wealth or influence in the ability to own such a firearm. Heavily engraved 1911's, SAA's and S&W N frames seem to have been the choice starting point. The more ostentatious the better as time wore on.

I believe the illustrious LawDog had a post at one point describing BBQ guns, Witness guns (lower keyed but still trying to impress) and some other levels of guns.

 

[SKM&P9]

For me being a "newbie", I gotta tell ya, I'm in tears after reading all the posts on this !!! Stage2, " You can't polish a turd. " LOLOLOL. I'll admit, I haadn't owned any gun, and I bought a Hi-Point 9mm to see if I even liked shooting. And it did go bang, and was fairly straight, and got me hooked on this stuff ! But I also sold it after 1 week, got a new M&P 9mm, a .38 revolver, and a .22 rifle for my son. So yes, I'd say as a "starter" type gun, it fit the bill. Just my 2 cents.

 

[jfernett119]

I shot 2 different Hi-Point pistols and a carbine. The carbine shot and functioned well. I was in no way impressed with either of the pistols. The ones I shot had the mag release on the bottom of the grip. That feature cause a few problems. They also only fed FMJs well enough to trust anywhere but the range. I do see the point SKM&P9 is making about them being entry level pistols. I think they only belong on the range with someone with a lot of patience.

 

[fattsgalore]

Don't let the gun snobs beat you down. Look them straight in the eye and say $100 guns kills the same as a $1000 guns. Good day sir!