Hi-Points versus Barbeque Guns

[03Shadowbob]

Man do I love BBQ and guns! It's the perfect combination.

 

[briansp82593]

and beer? well no because there is always someone retarded that drinks too much and fires randomly

 

[Todesengel]

I've been a gun enthusiast for going on 40 years but I don't have a clue what a "Barbeque gun" is, or what "gnurled, pearled and squirreled" means.

Also, anyone who touts a magazine safety as being a valuable feature doesn't know much about guns or self defense, from that point on you lost all credibility with me.

And I hate to tell you this son, but NO ONE buys a Vette for reliabilty, gas mileage or low cost of maintaining it.

+1

 

[Todesengel]

Well boys, you seemed to illustrate the exact point I was trying to make, I.E. - You're saying that your gun is better than my gun because you paid more for it. You're telling me I'm a bad guy because I own a gun that will fire when I want it to fire. Hmm, my gun sounds exactly like your gun. Not as elegant or expensive perhaps, but it performs its essential function - it fires a projectile.

Yes, your gun may be prettier, more accurate, and certainly more expensive. But at self-defense distances, I can put 100 out of 100 rounds in an IDPA target without a misfeed or an FTE. Can you say that?

I see that some of you are getting pretty worked up over it. First of all, watch my lips - I never said Hi-Point was a better gun than anything. I just told you that it does exactly what it is asked to do. It does this at a price that is a fraction of what you paid for your gun. I also said that the people who criticize this gun likely don't use or own it. The stories of "my buddy" are just that - stories. Even Glocks and SIGs will occasionally jam out of the box - tell the truth now.

I've yet to see a single one of you who have disabused me of that notion. You've raised some interesting points, however, none of them stand up to water when you utilize the standard I pointed out.

Some of you have used foul language. Some of you have thrown insults. Some of you have attempted to use logic in a way that is kinda fun to watch. Go ahead, make your best argument. I'm a big boy, and it don't hurt my little feelers none at all.

Ya know, its really funny. A magazine disconnect, in some of your minds, makes a gun worthless. I have lost all credibility in some of your minds because of that point. Tell me, just exactly why is it you say that? Have you ever been shot because you can't manually load a round? Any of you? Have you ever heard of even a single, documented, report of this happening anywhere in the world in all recorded history? Nope, I didn't think so. Kinda deflates that whole argument, doesn't it?

Are you the same guys that think there's an international conspiracy because Smith & Wesson now has a locking trigger? I Haven't heard of a locking trigger ever failing because of the existence of that lock (Smith & Wesson hasn't experienced that either).

Answer one more question - What will your autoloader do that mine will not? Will your gun shoot a bullet mine can't? Do your bullets possess some magical properties that mine don't? Does your gun help you with the ladies? (Just kidding on that last one).

As to what I carry, it is a snub revolver in .357. It will work every time I pull the hammer. If it doesn't, I'll pull the hammer again. And you know something else? Its a modern design (Oh no, hide the kids, the world is ending).

Oh well, I'm tired of playing. E-mail me when one of you comes up with a decent, logical argument. In the meantime, go read the reviews about Hi-Point guns. You might be surprised.

Why don't you carry your highpoint? I smell a Troll...

either way, enjoy your highpoint

 

[GaryArkansas]

Dear Todesengel, I don't carry it because I have other guns I like better. Higher capacity, more accurate, etc.

Whatever you smell, consider this point. Folks who say its unsafe are wrong. Folks who say its a ripoff are wrong. Don't believe me? Here's what other people say:

"Costing us only $145 with tax, The HI-POINT met our every demand and more, this pistol has more safety features than any other firearm that I have encountered." http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/40934/hipoint_compact_9mm_pistol_review.html

"Hi-Point C9 9mm: A no-nonsense, no-frills sureshot you can bet your life on!" In his testing, Mr. Markel fired Federal 124-grain Hydra-Shok, Cor-Bon 125-grain JHP, and Winchester USA roundnose/hardball through the Hi-Point C9 with zero gun-related malfunctions. Combat Handguns Magazine - November 2006

" ...the C9 may just be worth taking a look at by those who need an inexpensive pistol in short order and simply can't get $500 or more together for those more expensive pistols..." Defensivereview.com

From Glocktalk.com forum, "At 7 yards this sub-$150 gun shot like a charm and was dead on. The funny thing is that at the 7 yard line this little gun shot just as accurate as $500 to $800 guns (kind of made me mad about all the stores that told me it was junk) At ten yards the gun was still dead on accurate and again I was thinking about all the bad things I was told about the gun (by dealers)..."

Shootingtimes.com, "Hi-Point Pistols: Basic But Oh So Reliable!
After putting .45 ACP and .40 S&W Hi-Point pistols through a thorough shooting test, the author says you can call the Hi-Point pistols inexpensive, but don't ever say they aren't good shooters!"

From Gunweek.com about the 45ACP - "Overall, I find the JHP worth it’s modest cost. The gun may be angular and ugly, but beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. If the gun saves your life, it will be a beauty to you. The person behind the gun makes the difference. The Hi-Point .45 is reliable and accurate enough for home defense, and will not make a dent in your portfolio. It makes sense as a second gun or a truck gun. I think that makes it worthwhile. It is American-made, which means something to many of us."

Gun-tests.com, May 2006 - "...we couldn’t fault the Hi-Point for being anything but ugly. Fed a variety of ammo, the C9 kept on ticking, and it saves you money in the bargain."

Here's John Taffin from Guns Magazine - "The following results were obtained shooting the C9 at a combat-shooting distance of seven yards. All groups shot to point of aim and there were no malfunctions .... The C9 is definitely one of the all-time bargains ever offered to shooters ranking right up there with the old $15 war surplus firearms available when I was a teenager. Fifteen bucks was a whole lot harder to come by in 1956 than $149 is now."

Let's see - cheaply made, pretty rough on build quality, accurate at combat distances, and owned by both thugs and good guys. Hi-Point, yes, but the old AK-47 as well. And ya don't see a lot guys bad mouthing the AK-47. They say exactly what Hi-Point owners say - it works, its relatively safe and its not expensive.

 

[koja48]

Buy what you like & what you can afford. To each his/her own. I'm reasonably sure that none of us started out with higher-end guns (mine were hand-me downs, but fortunately they fit better than the clothes I received via the same route, which always fit me a mite too soon & these firearms did allow me to foster the passion & respect for hunting, shooting, & collecting that I have today.

 

[GaryArkansas]

Stage2 wrote, "Once again Gary, you are glossing over my post as well as the posts of other with 1st hand experience of the hi-point being a hugely problematic gun."

The reviewers who have objectively evaluated the Hi-Point would disagree with you as to it being "hugely problematic." Its easy to beat down anything if you're biased against it in the first place. For the 99th time, I'm not saying Hi-Point is better - just that you guys seem physically incapable of being objective. (I'd hate to have you on my jury if I got arrested.)

Some of the guys who have posted here are simply wrong. One poster said the Hi-Point has the magazine release on the bottom of the mag. Wrongo - its in the same place as everybody else's. People are talking out of both sides of their mouth, saying on one hand that it'll blow up in your face, then turning around and calling it a huge chunk of steel. Which one is it guys?

Jammomatic, wrong again. The reviewers (and not all of them gun writers) have uniformly discussed this C9's reliability.

Ya want hugely problematic? Hugely problematic would be Glocks with improperly supported chambers, that happen to explode unexpectedly. When you guys are bashing Hi-Point, you seem to forget little things like that.

Or perhaps the failures experienced bythe NYPD, which were sooo bad, that Glock flew engineers from Austria. Or the kabooms experienced by 1911 users. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock

In Handguns Magazine, 1994, Duane Thomas wrote, "Every time I go to a high-level handgun training class, there's at least one other class attendee shooting a customized 1911. I have yet to see such a shooter complete a full day's training without his or her gun choking numerous times. As a matter of fact, I've seen more jams -- and experienced them myself -- with the 1911 than with all other types of handguns combined. Why is that? In this article, I'll try to address what I consider the half dozen or so most common reasons why your 1911 auto won't work." Under your reasoning, since he's seen it and experienced it himself, its just gotta be true. Maybe we should hold the 1911 in the same standard? What cha think?

 

[daysleeprx]

Ya want hugely problematic? Hugely problematic would be Glocks with improperly supported chambers, that happen to explode unexpectedly.

The fact that you are using this as a basis for your argument is just hilarious. You accuse others for presenting THEIR PERSONAL BAD EXPERIENCE as being "unobjective", yet you use a wildly over exaggerated (mostly due to word spreading on the internet) "example" of the Glock KB. Have you personally experienced this? Or are you just regurgitating something you read somewhere?

You are so quick to believe what people in gun rags write about the Hi-Point, and there's nothing wrong with that. But when others who have responded to you saying that their PERSONAL experience with hi-points is bad, they're not being objective. What other experience are they supposed to go with?

Lets take HK as an example. They have a fine record as a quality firearm. But if my ONLY experience with an HK was a bad one, do you think I'd care what other people say? I'd find a new gun and move away from the HK brand.

People are talking out of both sides of their mouth, saying on one hand that it'll blow up in your face, then turning around and calling it a huge chunk of steel. Which one is it guys?

Why can't it be both? There's such a thing as different quality steel you know.

 

[obxned]

It is not the very best of guns, but it could very well be the best gun you can afford. In that case, it's a darn fine gun - load it, pull the trigger, it goes bang. Nuff said.

 

[gandog56]

Not if you were using the POS .45 cal Hi-Point I had the misfortune to buy.:banghead: If I was lucky I would only have TWO misfeeds per clip.

 

[115grfmj]

Um folks........

DON'T FEED THE TROLL'S They tend to get all worked up

 

[STAGE 2]

Stage2 wrote, "Once again Gary, you are glossing over my post as well as the posts of other with 1st hand experience of the hi-point being a hugely problematic gun."

The reviewers who have objectively evaluated the Hi-Point would disagree with you as to it being "hugely problematic." Its easy to beat down anything if you're biased against it in the first place. For the 99th time, I'm not saying Hi-Point is better - just that you guys seem physically incapable of being objective. (I'd hate to have you on my jury if I got arrested.)

So because the gun rags say one thing, that means they are right and everyone else is wrong? Does the real world experience of others not matter? I find a 66% failure rate to be problematic. The number of problem hi points isn't some mystical figure. Its readily acsertainable and is FAR larger than all of the other brand name gun makers.

Some of the guys who have posted here are simply wrong. One poster said the Hi-Point has the magazine release on the bottom of the mag. Wrongo - its in the same place as everybody else's. People are talking out of both sides of their mouth, saying on one hand that it'll blow up in your face, then turning around and calling it a huge chunk of steel. Which one is it guys?

Well, the hi-point is made out of pot metal making it extremely soft, so I don't think I'd be too comfortable with it, especially if it slamfired as some have been prone to do.

Jammomatic, wrong again. The reviewers (and not all of them gun writers) have uniformly discussed this C9's reliability.

And somehow these tests weren't biased or these test guns worked over than the regular factory production models. Were you there? I don't think so.

Ya want hugely problematic? Hugely problematic would be Glocks with improperly supported chambers, that happen to explode unexpectedly. When you guys are bashing Hi-Point, you seem to forget little things like that.

Ignoring the whole glock issue (which happens far FAR less than hi-point reliability problems) what in the world does another brand have to do with the reliability of the hi-point. We aren't comparing here. My 1911 doesn't make your hi-point any more or less reliable.

You dump on others because of their "arguments" and yet you have committed the most basic of logical fallicies.

 

[Marshall]

If Gary likes the Hi Point's, he likes the Hi Point's. Fine by me. They sure aren't my first choice, or 30th choice, but so what. Even inbreds produce a winner now and then, though far and few between.

 

[BHPshooter]

Some of them may be a piece of crap. Mine went bang for about 500 or 600 rds before I sold it. And never a failure. Can you say the same about all of your guns?

5 or 6 hundred rounds. Wow, what an exhaustive test period. I've got almost 4,000 rounds through my BHP, and I thought that was weak sauce. The only hangup I had was a dead primer in some Winchester white box.

Answer one more question - What will your autoloader do that mine will not? Will your gun shoot a bullet mine can't? Do your bullets possess some magical properties that mine don't?

Actually, yes. You see, my pistols are locked-breech. Hi Points are blowback. Yours still shoots a bullet with the same name as mine, but inch-for-inch of barrel length, I'm going to be getting a good bit more velocity, which translates to more energy.

Yes, your gun may be prettier, more accurate, and certainly more expensive. But at self-defense distances, I can put 100 out of 100 rounds in an IDPA target without a misfeed or an FTE. Can you say that?

Yep, sure can. Every handgun I've owned has done that, and that includes two $200 guns -- an Argentine FM Hi Power and an FEG Hi Power clone.

FWIW, I sell Hi Points. We sell a lot of them. Most of the people that buy them come back and tell us how much they like them. We still have our occasional niggles with them, just like the recent little issues that have come up with Mossberg (cracked stock), Remington (cracked stock), Howa (cracked stock), Taurus (bent sheet-metal slide stop), etc.

However, you can't tell me that there's no difference. I play with the things all day, and there is a BIG difference. In no particular order: Looks, feel, balance, grip shape, weight, holster/accessory availability, capacity, looks, magazine availability and price (compare to 1911 or BHP mags), materials, looks, operation, design...

Why don't we just settle this once and for all? Let's get a Hi-Point pistol of Gary's caliber of choice, a 1911, a Hi Power, a Glock 17, and a CZ-75 -- the most prevalent military handguns in the world over the last century -- and let's do a mock military acceptance trials-type test with each of them. Does anyone really think that the Hi Point will hang in there like these, the heavyweights?

That's the biggest difference, Gary -- these are military pistols. They've serviced Hell's furnace and been home in time for supper and MASH reruns. They've been there, done that, through every weather condition and all manner of dirt and grime, water and blood. Will a Hi Point do that? Because if it will, you can sign me up for one.

*sigh*
Wes

 

[jlh26oo]

Guys, we've completely exposed this guy for a troll. He's lost. But you think he's gonna quit? No, he's just going to keep responding w/"hah you've proven my point!" whether it makes sense or not. This is lose-lose.

DON'T FEED THE TROLL.

 

[Monkeybear]

In responce to your listing of good Hi Point reviews

Gary- Reguarless of the firearm discussed, I have never read a bad review anywhere other than a firearm forum. I have never read an article where the author says anything worse than "could be better".

Lets just all agree that Hi Points have a tendency to work. Lets also agree that sometimes they dont work and that this is cause for people not to like them. Remember this is an enthuaist forum, we have very high standards. Try talking about Daewoo cars on a car tuning forum. Try telling them the Daewoo will get them from point A to B just as good as their tuned RX-8.

 

[4fingermick]

Don't get me wrong, I like 1911s and always have one, which is always a Colt in my safe (currently have a SS 38Super Govt). Why Colt, mystique at first I suppose, but the Colts I have had have always worked. One thing 1911s have in common is that to really get them percolating you gotta accessorise baby! The rugers, glocks, CZs and Berettas have worked straight out of the box without any sort of problem. The 1911 clones that I have had (all springers, but standard 1911A1 trim) were ok sorta, but only fed RN and could not be relied on 100%.

I think there might be a bit of bias in the way americans hold the 1911 in such high regard. It is a state of the art fighting arm in only one country in the world, a big country, but only one when it all said and done. The rest of the world seems to be able to get by without them.

 

[nelson133]

IMHO the real trolls are those who continuously knock Hi-Point guns, usually without ever having fired them or PERSONALLY tested them in any way. They are crude and ugly, but they work and the factory will back them 100%. Some people just need to get over themselves.