Hk 45

[MoreIsLess]

I agree. While my HK45 was outstanding (I have since sold it, only because it was redundant and I could put that money towards other guns), my FNX 45 is just as good for a lot less money.

Either way you can't go wrong - both are fine pistols.

I had never shot an FNX until last Friday. I was at the range and had just finished shooting a Glock 21 and M&P 45 (rental guns) the guy at the counter hands me an FNX 45 and ask me to try it, so I did. I was quite surprised at how accurately I shot this gun, much better than the other 2 mentioned above and about as well as I shoot my 1911 Government model

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I had an FNP45 with major problems All my magazine springs went bad after about 4 months or so, so I replaced them. The gun would choke regularly on ball ammo, as in once or twice per magazine.

That being said, I believe those issues were resolved with the release of the FNX45. When it was working, my FNP was supremely accurate for a fighting pistol, was comfortable in the hand, and a real good time on the range.

I traded my FNP towards my HK45. I'm not ready yet, but I'll probably give FN another shot in the future if they come out with an FNS45, depending on what the VP45's capacity turns out to be. Likely it'll only be 10+1.

If it functions well, I think an FNX45 is a good gun to look at.

 

[sota]

one of the features of the HK45 is you can change variants at will, and keep the warranty. Most ship as a v1 (see chart below.) I personally converted mine to v3+4 (added ambidextrous controls, decocking only, no safety) in a couple minutes.

 

[HKGuns]

Out of that list the HK is the better option, assuming it fits your hand and you can shoot it accurately.

M&P's are fine pistols, but they're just not built to the same standards as the HK. The SIG220 is a great pistol, but more or less a brick when compared to the HK. The SIG has the advantage of being all steel if that means anything to you and if you run out of rounds you can always throw it at someone or use it as a club.

 

[Old Dog]

The SIG220 is a great pistol, but more or less a brick when compared to the HK.

Gosh, I'd never noticed.

Well, we were overdue for the HK fanboys to chime in ...

but they're just not built to the same standards as the HK.

Sigh.

 

[Chuck R.]

one of the features of the HK45 is you can change variants at will, and keep the warranty. Most ship as a v1 (see chart below.) I personally converted mine to v3+4 (added ambidextrous controls, decocking only, no safety) in a couple minutes.

This is actually a pretty cool feature. My HK45T started out as a V1; DA/SA with safety/decocker. For $12.00 I converted it to V9 SA/DA with safety only so I could ride the safety like a 1911.

Played with it that way for a while, then spent the $99 to convert it to a light "match" LEM hybrid V7.

3 different triggers to paly with.

Chuck

 

[HKGuns]

Gosh, I'd never noticed.

Well, we were overdue for the HK fanboys to chime in ...
Quote:
but they're just not built to the same standards as the HK.
Sigh.

You have no clue how my user name was derived. Next? If that is all you have, keep it.

 

[Old Dog]

Are you perhaps being deliberately obtuse? Actually, I have more ... much more.

It is always interesting to see how those wedded to a single manufacturer react when they find out that there are other makers out there whose products perform just as well, often better and are actually more well-known ... When one must resort to characterizing another widely-accepted and eminently worthy platform as a "brick," well, apparently ... that's all you have ...

Some of us acknowledged the HK45 as a worthy pistol; but upon further review, having been stuck with the HK USP as a duty pistol for quite a while, I'll go out on a limb and term that particular pistol as ... a brick. Next ...

 

[JDR]

I have been in the market for another 45. I currently have one, a Colt 1911 Government model. I have been considering a Sig 220 and an M&P 45. Recently I have decided to include HK into the mix since they are about in the same price range as Sig. How do you think the HK 45's stacjk up against the Sig 220 or 227

I have an HK45, it is terrific, I like it better than the P220 that I used to have. I think the P227 is every bit as good as the HK45. I also like my Gen4 Glock 21, but my Dan Wesson Valor is still my favorite!

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I think the P227 is every bit as good as the HK45.

The 227 really interests me too. I really want one. So many 45's and not enough money.

 

[Cee Zee]

lots of fluff about whatever - I think aFX45 is a good gun to look at

In a nutshell.

Personally I haven't seen how my Sig P220 is lacking in any respect. I don't know how they could have made it better.

 

[JDR]

IMHO, nothing beats a good 1911. But the Sig P227, HK45, Glock 21 and CZ 97B are also really good on their own merits!

 

[Zaydok Allen]

lots of fluff about whatever - I think aFX45 is a good gun to look at

In a nutshell.

At least the "Fluff" was actually relevant to one of the guns being discussed.

Personally I haven't seen how my Sig P220 is lacking in any respect. I don't know how they could have made it better.

Ammo capacity. All the models under discussion have a higher capacity than a 220. However, if I really wanted the 220, that wouldn't stop me. They are great pistols. I've never gotten to shoot one, but I've handled several and drooled over each one. Based on the happy reports of owners, I'd buy one for sure.

 

[Cee Zee]

At least the "Fluff" was actually relevant...

So was my post.

Ammo capacity.

Yeah well that's why I no longer carry that pistol but none of the .45's compare to the capacity of the .40's like the one I carry now, an SD XDm which is 16+1. I always had several extra mags with me when I carried the Sig though. It's not that time consuming to drop a mag and stick in another. But every bit does help. Not only that but I have a 10 round mag for my 220. So it isn't like the HK has it all over the Sig. 2 extra rounds in the mag helps. Sig makes 8 round mags for my 220. It's not that much of an advantage. Now if you're talking 10+1 in a compact pistol that starts to be an improvement. I have a Taurus that holds that many in a pistol that is considerably smaller than the HK45 or the Sig P227.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I have a 10 round mag for my 220. So it isn't like the HK has it all over the Sig. 2 extra rounds in the mag helps.

Indeed it does help. Personally, I'd be happy with either.

 

[Cee Zee]

I'd be happy with either.

Me too. And I am happy with the 220 I have. It's been a great pistol since day one and still is.

 

[d'zaster]

I have a hk p2000 da/as chambered in .40 and a P220 .45. I really like both guns but the hk is a better shooter. Smoothest trigger of all my pistols.

 

[Averageman]

I have an HK 45C in my rotation of EDC guns. I must have 2500 rounds through it without a hiccup.
I am very happy with it.
I also have Glocks and Colts and I must say I do think the H&K has a bit of an edge in my opinion in ergonomics, but perhaps that's just my hand.

 

[cslinger]

SIG VS HK generally speaking is a wash. The HK will be more robust overall owing mostly to the polymer vs aluminum frame and it will be more tolerant being run dry. SIGS should be run wet/greased. All steel SIGS are of course available but are heavy beasts and generally when talking SIG the gun in question is an alloy frame.

---Accuracy is a wash.
---Reliability is a wash. Well except HK guns will feed rounds backwards if necessary.
---Recoil is a wash
---Comfort is a wash and depends on user pref.
---Cost is close to a wash but a lot of the extra cost of HK comes from their R&D and quality control. HK in my opinion generally has exhibited better overall and more consistent QC then. SIG.
---Aftermarket no contest goes to SIG
---Magazine quality. Used to be a wash but since SIG started using Checkmate fore some of their products reports are not nearly as positive as the MecGar builds. HK mags are built in house and hell for stout.....and made of unobtanium and blessed by virgins and packed by Tibetan monks......hence there cost.
---Capacity SIG. generally platform to platform HK will be lower capacity or Sig has higher capacity options.
---Customer service. SIG has had much more consistent after purchase support than HK over the years. HK has supposedly gotten better.
---Controls are a wash/preference. I like how ambi HKs are and love paddle mag releases. Many hate them.
---Fit and finish. Edge to HK but nothing to bet the farm about
---Finish durability. HK. I don't think you could scrape the finish of an HK with a GLOCK. Seriously HKS finish is just like GLOCKS treatment.
---Trigger goes to SIG for TDA. HK LEM is better then DAK IMO. HK gives you a ton more options so they get the edge here. But feel for feel it's a wash really.

Honestly comparing a 220 or 227 to an HK45 comes down more to preference then actual superiority of product. I do think the HK warrants it's price as it seems to go to QC and controlling parts by not outsourcing but would that make a whit of difference in a real world civilian application? Probably not. How about a military application. Well since the SEALS are known to use P226s and HK45cs. Probably not.

At the end of the day plastic is easier to take care of and steel rails on steel slide is better then steel slide on alloy rails as far as durability and maintainence. There is your primary difference imo.

Shoot safe,
Chris

 

[cslinger]

All that said above. I will probably be buried with my P220 stainless.

 

[Cee Zee]

The HK will be more robust overall owing mostly to the polymer vs aluminum frame and it will be more tolerant being run dry. SIGS should be run wet/greased.

I never put any oil on my Sig. I never have. I've run about 15,000 rounds through it and I've never had a problem except when the recoil spring wore out. BTW I bought it used so it's hard telling how many rounds actually went through that pistol.

I did put a little dry lube on a very small spot on the slide not too long ago. It was wearing the finish off a bit. But I've never put oil on the action even once. I just clean it every time I shoot it.

As for being robust I've seen some crazy torture tests but none top what they put a Sig P220 through. They did things like drop it from a helicopter, drop it from a building (forget how tall) onto concrete, put explosives under it and blew it up, ran a cherry picker over it and finally they shot it - with another pistol. It never stopped working. These are just a few of the things they did to it. Fire, ice, water, dirt, etc. etc. etc.. What they did to that pistol was insane. It used to be online but it's been taken down a long time ago. It might be available on the Internet Archive. Yep. You can read the story without the photos here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20070523114216/http://www.americanhandgunner.com/Lasermax.html

 

[cslinger]

Not saying SIGS need to be babied and I have owned a bunch but at the end of the day the aluminum frame rails are a known weak spot especially if the anodizing gets eaten through. Steel on aluminum will always be weaker then steel on steel. It is a good practice to run them with grease or wet even if they seemingly don't need it. Again. Just my own opinion based on my experience so not talking about a huge same size etc.

Now again that is really academics as both HK and SIG have been abused by militaries and police agencies world wide and both appear hell for stout. I have seen frame rails fail on SIGS. (Crack, abrade etc. not catastrophically come apart or anything but fail).

 

[JTQ]

Cee Zee wrote,
I never put any oil on my Sig. I never have. I've run about 15,000 rounds through it and I've never had a problem except when the recoil spring wore out.

But I've never put oil on the action even once. I just clean it every time I shoot it.

Just for clarity, you've never used lube on your SIG, with the exception of some dry lube once? What product are you using to clean your SIG?

 

[Cee Zee]

What product are you using to clean your SIG?

A brass brush and a nylon brush. Plus a bore snake. Trust me I pay close attention to any wear issues. I had at least 15,000 rounds through it plus however many the first owner fired before I noticed a very slight amount of surface wear on the slide rails. I did put some dry lube there. It hasn't even worn the lube off since then. Dry lube is lube. It just won't spread around and it doesn't collect residue. But the amount I used wouldn't cover the tip of your little finger.

I don't think I have a single handgun that's ever had lube applied. IMO you cause more problems with lube than you solve. It collects powder residue and whatever. I don't how it can be seen as a bad way of doing things considering how much I've shot over the years. I've been shooting for well over 50 years. My dad taught me how to deal with firearms and I have never had a problem following his advice. The only oil I use is as a rust inhibitor on the outside of my guns. If I have a gun that might rust in the bore I'll use a light film in the bore. Plus shotguns get a little bit of oil because they fire dirty powder and a lot of it. Even that is very, very light.. The only rifle I've ever lubed the bore on was a Yugo SKS which of course doesn't have the chrome lining and if you use any of the old corrosive ammo you will see some rust.

I can show you photos of guns I've owned for 35 years or more that I treat that way. They don't have a speck of rust on them. I did have a Mossberg shotgun that needed to be reblued once but it was only surface rust on the outside of the barrel and receiver that made me have it hot blued.

I know a lot of people here will think I'm crazy. That's why I never mention it. But I don't have any problems from doing things the way I do. Never have. I did have a know it all wannabe gunsmith fill my Norinco SKS with WD-40. If you want to see how a lube can collect residue try doing that. I've seen rifles like that get so gunked up they wouldn't even let the bolt slide forward if you pulled it back and let go. I cleaned the SKS after he got done with it. I've had that gun 23 years and have fired a whole bunch of corrosive ammo through it. You won't find a speck of rust anywhere on that gun. You won't find gunk built up like concrete either. BTW that kind of buildup can be deadly in an SKS. If you get lube in the firing pin channel and then it fills with residue you can find yourself with a machine gun that won't stop firing until the mag is empty. I see a lot of problems from too much lube and very, very few from too little lube.

 

[CoalTrain49]

How do you think the HK 45's stacjk up against the Sig 220 or 227

I've had this same dilemma for about 2 months. I have 1911's but really wanted a DA/SA to carry. I reload 45 acp so there was no question about the cartridge. I'm a big HK fan as I owned one previously. Also a Sig fan as I've had one of those also. I'm pretty much all over the board as far as brands go, I've owned or shot just about everything.

After doing a bunch of research I decided the HK 45 was what suited me best. I came very close to buying a new one and I found a very good deal on a used Sig 220. Agency trade in with low miles for $500. That's about half of what a new HK 45 will cost. I'm a sucker for a good deal.

PM me if you want to know where it came from. I'm not in the habit of advertising for gun dealers on a public forum.