Holder Tells Congress they want to reinstate the Clinton Gun Ban

[Pilot]

^^^^^^^


Sigh. I would have to agree with you. The government is all about their own growth, power, and control. All that seperates us from total controlis 2A. They know that, and they want to get rid of it. One more Supreme Court judge is all that it will take.

 

[Dr Dave]

I hear a lot about the botched Fast & Furious operation. Fast & Furious was not botched. It accomplished exactly what it was supposed to do; help get Mexicans killed with American guns. Their only botched part was getting caught.

 

[jaysouth]

So far obama has not let congress or the constitution get in his way when he wants something.

Witness his recent recess appointments of more of his kremlin syle czars while congress was still in session.

No one called him on that.

 

[Armchair Bronco]

If you're really a conspiracy theorist, you could even make the argument that Fast & Furious was the first salvo in this regime's attempt to re-institute the AWB.

I'll be buying my AK-74 and loading up on 30-round mags and surplus Commie ammo sooner rather than later.

 

[Mike1234567]

Any time people allow others just a little power over them to keep the peace, write/enforce laws, take care of unpleasant tasks, etc., those with that power will seek more. Over time that power, corruption, greed and control exceeds our ability to free ourselves from it.

 

[newbuckeye]

So far obama has not let congress or the constitution get in his way when he wants something.

I was just gonna say this......Executive Order and it's enforceable by HIS DOJ until we can vote him out and the next POTUS reverses the EO.

 

[Ignition Override]

Doesn't a Presidential Executive Order (not a pres. pardon) still require approval by both the House and the Senate?

As for Holder and Obama's campaign, knowing that this White House team was well-aware of how gun control comments cost Gore the election in the 90s, isn't there a decent chance that Holder's comments will swing some more Independents against Obama in November?

This W.H. team (Obama) never intended to pursue any new bans after the '08 election, because they needed their "political capital" (public support) to be spent on major bills such as "Pelosi Care" etc. They knew, at least back then, that they could not waste a chunk of it on secondary issues.
It was their intention from the start to pass a major bill Other than a gun issue, and their record proves it.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Anyone who recklessly suspends the Constitution may have gained entry into the "enemies foreign AND DOMESTIC" section.

 

[newbuckeye]

Doesn't a Presidential Executive Order (not a pres. pardon) still require approval by both the House and the Senate?

Nope. Thats why they can be UNdone by the next POTUS.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

there was a rumor that F&F was in part a pay off to the Sinoloa cartel for info and assistance against other cartels.

That is a view frequently expressed in Latin America. Whether it is true or not is another thing, but the US gov't has damaged its credibility for generations down there.

 

[sedona]

In 94 just a couple of months before the awb.I saw glock mags going for 80-90 dollars a piece.A year before i think they were 12-14 dollars a piece at the same gun show.A friend of mine that voted for clinton was outraged at the prices but took out 1000 dollars to buy 10 mags.I only had revolvers at the time so it didn't matter to me.

 

[Ford Prefect]

You have that turned around, Ollie North defended this country.

This post proves that the ATF will not only get away with this; but Holder, instead of fearing prison, will probably face a lucrative book deal, his own TV show, and being made a "hero" by those who supported his politics because the ends justified the means. Just like the post above.

Both North and "somebody" in the ATF (maybe Holder) smuggled weapons to our enemies in violation of ferderal law, thier oaths and our national security interests. Thier excuses are purely partisan. North sold IRAN high tech weapons including advanced radar, missles and computers specifically forbidden to them by law, not just some ak's to drug lords.
I don't care what color tie they wear. Officers of the US gov't who commit these kinds of serious crimes should do serious time in federal prison, but I doubt they ever will.

 

[HoosierQ]

I'm going to get flamed but here goes.

It is not axiomatic that these politicians want to ban guns. Sure...some do. Also not axiomatic is that what these politicians want is control. They don't want control...they want power...they want money...they want the perquisites (aka perks). If they had control, there would be control and somebody would be able to control them eventually...Soviet Union style...almost everybody who advocated control ended up controled themselves...controled to death.

Guns are not a threat to the politicians in this country. There are millions of guns, millions of gun owners, and the politicians...of either stripe...continue to run their show...sock away their millions...they want to keep it that way. What is a threat to these politicians is cheesing off people who vote. No votes, no political office. No political office, no power, no money, no limos, no special treatment. Gun bans and gun control cheeses off voters...lots and lots of voters. God bless the NRA for keeping that in the forefront of everybody's mind. VOTE VOTE VOTE and make sure you know who to vote for.

Do I suggest the current administration is a friend to the gun owner? No. But the current administration is headed by the consumate professional politician. I think he has not pressed gun control because it would cost him an election. I think he will not press gun control if elected again because that would cost his political cronies elections. Remember Ronald Reagan? They guy hated abortion like poison and spoke against it at every opportunity. However, in the end, he lifted nary a finger against it (at least in terms of its legality) because a) there was a Supreme Court ruling, and b) a huge number of VOTERS would have turned against him. Now this is not exactly apples to apples here and I know that. What I suggest is that with politicians, WORDS and ACTIONS do not...seldom do...equate.

So support the NRA and Vote pro-2nd Amendment and I think we will not see gun control expand. State after state is expanding CC...Wisconsin just passed very reasonable CC laws leaving only Illinois.

Complacency is a bad thing and vigilance is always a good thing where our rights are concerned but I think it is simply not axiomatic that politicians have some inate desire to take guns away from us. I thik it is however axiomatic that politicians want office and office takes votes.

 

[gunsandreligion]

It seems as if "we the people" has left America, and now even if politicians believe in giving the citizens freedom, it is still has been given, it is not viewed as a unalienable right. Whenever I read through the bill of rights, it astounds me that anyone who has any idea of what America was founded on, as it seems all those elected to be a representative of the people should have, would ever dream of removing such a right as the 2A. And yet that is what many suggest and try. It has always been my opinion that the 2A is essential for the sustaining of the three unalienable rights endowed to us by our creator and our founding fathers. The life part, because it gives us the ability to defend our lives, The liberty part is rather obvious, and while it is probably not essential for happiness, as many on this forum know it can further that pursuit greatly. It has always been my belief that the ones who fight against the 2A do not respect those rights and are a great danger to us as a nation.
*

 

[JustinJ]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysouth
So far obama has not let congress or the constitution get in his way when he wants something.

I was just gonna say this......Executive Order and it's enforceable by HIS DOJ until we can vote him out and the next POTUS reverses the EO.

I agree. What boggles my mind though is why these compaints weren't being made about Bush from the people complaining about Obama.

 

[HoosierQ]

Per my argument above...Look what happened to Bush. He cheesed off his voters and he was out. Part of that was how he handled Iraq, part of it was his AWB...bad gun control moves get people tossed out of office. Which is why I tend to see professional politicians as anti gun-control, if not by nature then by inclination due to the fact that they want to stay in office and reap those benefits. Guns are not a threat to these politicians, we're not all fixing to rise up in armed rebellion over...whatever...they know that. What we will do is vote against them.

 

[Neverwinter]

Per my argument above...Look what happened to Bush. He cheesed off his voters and he was out. Part of that was how he handled Iraq, part of it was his AWB...bad gun control moves get people tossed out of office. Which is why I tend to see professional politicians as anti gun-control, if not by nature then by inclination due to the fact that they want to stay in office and reap those benefits. Guns are not a threat to these politicians, we're not all fixing to rise up in armed rebellion over...whatever...they know that. What we will do is vote against them.

Thay might be true if we lived in an alternate reality where Bush didn't get a second term after admitting to supporting an AWB in a debate with Kerry.

Sent using Tapatalk

 

[Husker_Fan]

^^ Exactly what I was about to write. R's and D's don't make much of a difference in this area anymore.

Thankfully the RKBA movement has become robust enough that we are pretty effective at preventing new restrictions and rolling back old ones. The only reason their hasn't been a big gun-control push is because the politicians will have their feet held to the fire and they know it. D's haven't had the will to push it, and R's haven't seen anything worth compromising in exchange for it.

But, that's probably enough polyticks for THR. Let's just all agree to push our representatives, regardless of their party affiliation, on these issues.

 

[HoosierQ]

Sorry...I am talking about Bush the elder...Bush 41. He was the one who sent up the AWB...people forget that. We tend to call it the Clinton Gun Ban but it really was the G.H.W.Bush AWB. And he's also the one who stopped Schwartzkopf from crushing Iraq in 1991 thus making the 2003 - 2011 war all that much more likely to happen.

And HE lost his bid for re-election because he angered the voters he needed to stay in office.

I agree completely...gun control is not a D vs R thing. There is some tendency there...an imbalance between the two parties in terms of 2ndA friendliness if you will...but there are plenty of friends and foes on both sides of the aisle.

Power is about votes...votes are about making constituents happy. At the end of the day (election day if you will) the people in power are those who have made the most people happy and pushing gun control makes a whole lot of people unhappy.

 

[awgrizzly]

Good stuff here. It's not simply a dem=bad / rep=good type of thing, and it's good to recognize this in order to support our second amendment. The president and congress don't need to strip us of our guns to control us... they do a good job of it now and our guns mean squat. But their policies largely depend upon whom they are trying to play to... that is what special interests they want to curry favor from.
* There are some anti-gun lobbies afoot, such as radical progressive movements (which I like to call crackhead liberals... excuse me mods) that promote policies based upon blind ideology.
* There are international players that would like nothing better to see Americans disarmed, such as the UN and George Soros.
* There are progressive state powerhouses that wish (or wished =o) to inflict their own brand of gun control on the entire nation, such as New York, Illinois, Washington DC, and California (thank you Supremes).

What eventual affects the President, congress and perhaps even the Supreme Court depends upon what group is most advantageous to their election, positions of authority (like committee assignments), and/or special favors such as a lucrative post term job. Unfortunately we the people often have the least influence because they can simply lie to us to get our votes.

Something that demonstrates this on the Democrat side is the abandonment of far left priorities by President Obama, and on the republican side the sudden resurgence of libertarian like priorities by party hardliners who suddenly smelled the flowers. Few of them did anything to reduce the government or cut spending in the decades some of them have been in office, and now they sound like Ron Paul wannabes.

Know your candidates and cast your votes wisely.

 

[ErikO]

Also, there are those of us on 'the left' who are pushing a Pro-RKBA stance on as many Dems as we can. With luck, gun ownership will be as devisive as car ownership.

Holder and Nepalitano both need to go. With any luck, they'll both get 'thrown under the bus' no matter who wins in 2012. That'd be a big win for America. With more luck, their replacements would undo the damage they have done.

 

[baylorattorney]

I am an official HOLDER HATER.

 

[Ford Prefect]

baylorattorney I am an official HOLDER HATER.

Do we know of evidence against Holder specifically? My understanding is that it's the lawyers at the ATF who have been running things there for years. The revolving door in the directors office is just for the stooge to catch all the political flak for the actions of the Office of Legal Council to the ATF, and the FBI lawyers who work with them.

I suspect they are the true culprits here, just as they have been for years. This dates back through several administrations. Not just this one.

Those lawyers have avoided getting any blame for all things they have done over the years.

 

[Pindarslight]

The government is the government....we as a free loving country have lost our way. The founding fathers are probably:banghead: in their graves. None of what we deal with now was ever intended to happen...but what they didn't consider is reverse evolution.

As I walk the stores, watch the news, go on forums I see how retarded the human species has gotten. Think about it for a second look at the evolution of our country and what we have accomplished. Now look at us now. Our government has control because we let them, most people re more worried about Kim kardash is doing then the government, more people know about celebs then they do about the different parts of our crap government.

We are heading back to our roots as single cell bacteria. It's pathetic how one group uses on right to crush another fundamental right. It makes me sick

 

[awgrizzly]

Do we know of evidence against Holder specifically?

From what I've heard, the issue with Holder right now isn't if he was responsible for F&F, knew about it, or lied to congress. He says he doesn't know who's responsible, but refuses to turn over documents that would likely validate his ignorance of it or disclose who approved it. So for now it isn't an issue of proving he was involved but charging him with contempt if he doesn't comply.

I think it's important that he be slapped down for no other reason than to let those bums know that they will be held accountable and are not untouchable. The sheer arrogance of the administration should be considered a crime.