Home defense with cold steel

[Rufus Pisanus]

I wonder how many people in the forum employed a blade weapon in self-defense. I did it once years ago at my parents' flat in Pisa (Italy). It was a raised first floor flat and it was summer with windows open to ventilate. I heard a "thud" from the living room and took my Army officer sword from behind the door and went to investigate (we didn't have firearms in the house at the time, now my parents got a 12 gauge...).

A guy was trying to lift the blinds to get in. I unsheated the sword shouting something about his mother professional habits ...He jumped down the balcony and fled...In retrospect it wasn't a smart idea to sleep with windows open but it was a relatively low crime area at the time.

 

[mete]

Cold steel always requires close range making things more dangerous for you.In addition if the BG has a gun a knife or sword is useless.

 

[ChillyW]

I've got a bayonet hanging on the wall in my bedroom.

(I've since gotten a gun safe to put my Taurus in near the bed, so the bayonet is no longer my first choice.)

But if I'm going to go investigate strange noises in the house in the middle of the night, I figure a bayonet is a whole lot better than nothing.

 

[Rufus Pisanus]

I agree that against a firearm a sword is not very useful but it is indeed better than nothing and it was the only thing I had available.

btw in Italy where obtaining a concealed carry permit requires proof of need (like in Maryland...) I would often carry a knife. I never had to use it but a couple of times I had to show it to defuse an unpleasant situation.

Here I carry a knife (and pepper spray) when hiking but I wish I could legally carry. I had problems with dogs a couple of times and in one case it was two of them and big ones too. They seemed trained and I managed to slowly walk backwards without having to use the knife (unpleasant against two dogs, the Army actually thought me how to handle one). It is possible that I ended up unknowingly trespassing on private property bordering a state park. I suspect that their owner was not growing salad there...

 

[Byron Quick]

In addition if the BG has a gun a knife or sword is useless.

Only if the BG knows that I am there before he comes into range.

That's a might sweeping statement. One that ignores tactical advantage and sneakiness.

Tell you what: if you're ever in the area, let's do an experiment. I'll wrap my sharpened entrenchment tool's edge with a piece of split water hose, burlap, and duct tape. I'll wear goggles. You wear a helmet and goggles and carry a paint gun pistol. I'll soak the edges of the entrenchment tool's padded edges in paint.

Then I'll play homeowner armed only with an edged weapon. I'll hide in a closet in a house where you don't know the layout at night in the dark. You play the bad guy burglar who has to check out all the closets for valuables.

Let's see who get marked up. Oh, yeah, we better get a face shield on your helmet. Even padded, a lunge thrust to the face would really hurt.

If the other guy can get the right tactical advantage over you...it does not matter if you're armed with whatever whizbang weapon and he has a three pound rock. He'll kill you and own your weapon.

Weaponry is second. Tactical advantage for those weapons is first.

It's been said many times before but I'll say it again: There are no such things as dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous people.

What does this mean? Well, many people who are unarmed would say to themselves if they spotted someone in the house with a gun,"Wow, I'd better run, or surrender, or, or...or...eehh!" The dangerous human being will say,"I need to get within range of my stick, rock, nail file what ever as the first step." Then if it's a weapon of limited lethality such as the nail file..."Then when he steps by my hiding place, I'll grab his gun arm and stab him in the eye or face with the nail file-repeatedly. When I get the gun away from him then I'll go for slide lock."

 

[hso]

"if the BG has a gun a knife or sword is useless" :banghead:

Byron's dead on. To say that a gun trumps knife/sword is a sweeping statement that is just dead wrong. I've even proven it dead wrong to law enforcement officers when they thought the 21 foot rule was silly and the videos they saw in their training were just staged BS. Hardly any ever got their weapon on target (cherubic little me) and one loudmouth never even got his weapon out of the holster before I "killed" him. This applies to hatchet, club, etc. When you're almost in bad breath range you have NO advantage over someone with another deadly weapon and to think otherwise is naive or suicidally ignorant.

If you still think otherwise take Byron up on his offer or you have a second personal invitation to come over and find out. We'll sell tickets.

 

[Byron Quick]

I own two Samurai swords. One is a real one...made around 1590 according to the appraiser. The other is a Paul Chen reproduction.


One on One ine the lay out of my house...I would purely hate to be BG trying to go from room to room.

Even for professionals...you can't do the pie deal on the bedrooms in my house.

If I'm awakened before the first elite whatever makes it to my bedroom...you'd best use grenades before you come in. Use fragmentation grenades. I'm pretty sure that if I've got time to get to a weapon that I'll have time to cover my eyes and ears. I've practiced using edged weapons blindfolded...I'm confiddent of interdicting a confined space with a sword while blind. Flashbang...stamp....swish.

It would be interesting if I survived. I've seen a samurai helmet bisected by a modern
reproduction of a Japanese sword. Wonder how the PASGT would hold up?

Otherwise, send in the new guy that you don't like.

 

[Soap]

Byron and hso- You guys are dead on. People that don't respect the blade are just kidding themselves or ignorant. Give someone even a few weeks training doing Cinco Teros-derived drills and they will be deadly with a blade. For example, I trained my bro-in-law, who has ZERO martial arts experience but is in excellent physical shape some Cinco drills. After 2 weeks we were doing drills where I had to draw from concealment with a dummy gun, he had an A/F trainer...from across any room I didn't "win" a single drill unless I didn't go for the gun at all and did some more immediate action. He basically turned me into a filet before I could even clear my cover garment.

 

[Sunray]

"...took my Army officer sword...' A half nekkid guy with a sword would scare any criminal. Criminals by their nature are frightened by any show of force.
"...To say that a gun trumps knife/sword is a sweeping statement that is just dead wrong..." Nonsense. It's the willingness to use a firearm that trumps the blade. If a criminal opts to take a gun with him out of his fear of getting cuaught, no blade will deter him. He's already made the decision. Scare the criminal carrying a firearm and the guy with the blade gets shot.

 

[Don Gwinn]

I wouldn't test Byron on this . . . . the last guy who did one of these tests with him got tased.

In the face.

 

[hillbilly]

The single most deadly weapon on earth is a human brain equipped with the appropriate attitude.......win at all costs.

Check out the video of the liquor store robbery gone very, very bad for the robber. It's been on cop shows over and over and over.

The two middle-aged women in the liquor store are armed with nothing more than bottles of alcohol and the proper attitudes.

They beat the crap out that idiot robber.

Of course, he doesn't really have a gun, just his finger pointed through the material of his jacket pocket to simulate a gun.

But the two women don't know he doesn't have a gun until after the second bottle (fifth of Jack Daniels, I think it is) cracks him across the skull, causing him to pull his empty hand out of his jacket pocket.

Gun or not, those two women meant to take him down with heavy glass bottles full of liquor.

The worst spree killer in Arkansas history, R. Gene Simmons, who killed two people, and then also killed 14 members of his family went looking for more victims afterwards.

He stopped at a local convenience store. The men inside sucessfully repelled R. Gene Simmons, who was armed with a gun. Their weapon of choice? Cans of green beans. Those little cans of green beans tend to really cause damage when they fly through the air at around 40 mph.

R. Gene decided to go somewhere else to look for more victims, which allowed the police to find and subdue him.



hillbilly

 

[sakimoto]

defense w/ cold steel.

I have an assagai (I think that is how you spell it) by cold steel right by my bed, and I also have a homemade broad sword that I made form a leaf spring that is razor sharp. I would not hesitate to use them as to defend my home. It seems like one would have an advantage in their home because the criminal does not know the layout of the house and they usually strike at night. Of course a firearm would be better if and only if you are proficient at it. I have seen people miss small game with a shot gun at only ten feet away because they were so excited at the moment. I am glad you were able to repel the thug. A cool head and strategy will alway work to ones advantage.
Best regards,
Saki

 

[Gunz]

Say Byron, which Paul Chen repro do you own? I was looking at some Bugei stuff, which is also paul Chen, I believe.

Yeah, in the dark, a tactically aware home owner with 29inches of sharpened steel arcing down on the wrists of an intruder holding firearm would win points for the homeowner.

Actually, an edged or pointy weapon will penetrate an intruder's vitals, even if the intruder were wearing soft body armor.

 

[Byron Quick]

I own the Musashi blade.

I wouldn't test Byron on this . . . . the last guy who did one of these tests with him got tased.

I was aiming at John's center of mass. One probe hit him in the chest. The other hit him in the right cheek. John reached me and collided with me. But he was flaccid during the collision, bounded off of me and went face first into the ground about twelve feet beyond me. He was up and coming back immediately but I would have had time to shoot him.

I've always been puzzled by the Tueller Drill. I'm just average in reaction time-if that. I've sparred enough and trained enough in martial arts to know this. Do the people just stand in one place waiting for the attack to arrive while trying to draw a weapon? That's the only way that I can explain it.

I've been attacked without warning from five feet distance. Man trying to connect a sledge hammer handle with the top of my skull. By the time he got the sledge hammer handle raised above his head, I wasn't in range anymore, had swept my cover garment, and hit the thumb break on my holster. He realized two things: 1)He was going to have to take a long step to get in range and 2)By the time he did that, I was going to be shooting him. If he had continued to attack, I would have gotten off of his line of attack again, while drawing and firing. He dropped his weapon.

People, beating someone who's brought a knife or club to a gunfight isn't that difficult. He's charging in. You take a BIG diagonal step to your right or left rear while drawing. Be prepared to take another evasive step. He's got a contact weapon. All you have to do is stay out of his engagement envelope. With proper timing and footwork, it's not that difficult. It does take practice and training.

 

[JShirley]

Sunray, old friend, it's doesn't matter how "willing" an assailant is, if he doesn't understand the manual of arms for his weapon- how to disengage the safety, for instance.

By the same token, it should be fairly obvious that, at the right distancing, someone with a high enough skill level vs. someone with a low skill level can be a threat with virtually anything.

John

 

[Powderman]

Byron's dead on. To say that a gun trumps knife/sword is a sweeping statement that is just dead wrong. I've even proven it dead wrong to law enforcement officers when they thought the 21 foot rule was silly and the videos they saw in their training were just staged BS. Hardly any ever got their weapon on target (cherubic little me) and one loudmouth never even got his weapon out of the holster before I "killed" him. This applies to hatchet, club, etc. When you're almost in bad breath range you have NO advantage over someone with another deadly weapon and to think otherwise is naive or suicidally ignorant

Dude.

Is that YOU in the training videos, that rushes across the room and "stabs" the officer at least 30 times before he can even get his gun from the holster?

 

[Don Gwinn]

Actually, Byron, I think it was actually part of the protocol in the Tueller tests that the shooter stayed rooted in one place. You're right, that wouldn't be smart in the real world, but as I understand it, Tueller was testing the theory of cops who did indeed say they could stop the attack by standing in one place and shooting back.

Footwork is SO important and yet I am SO very bad at it.

 

[hso]

Powderman,

Nope not me, but that's what it looks like when they don't understand the threat that someone who's unimpressive with a knife/club/axe suddenly at hand represents.

There's the "huh?" followed by the "what the F***!" followed by the "OH S***!!" phases when no one's explained the "rules" to the guy that thinks the gun in his holster is the magic boom stick that makes him immortal.

Byron and John and Daniel understand that someone with the wrong body language and attitude are telling you that they're up to no good. It doesn't matter what they're about to do, it's all deadly and you've got to get OUT OF THE WAY and take action. You have to move off center and out of range to buy time to draw a gun or club or big knife or you can move off center and inside if you're drawing a medium/small knife or going empty hand.

 

[scott.cr]

That's a might sweeping statement. One that ignores tactical advantage and sneakiness.

The word as it applies to the guy defending himself is ELUSIVENESS. ;-)

When the BG has the knife, then it's sneakiness.

I mean really, the main thing that scares the heck out of me as it applies to knives is that a blade is elusive: Hard to defend against.

 

[50 Freak]

In addition if the BG has a gun a knife or sword is useless.

Wrong Wrong Wrong!!!!

At close range (bad breath range as some of you have called it). A drawn knife or sword is a better weapon than a sword. I had a class once where the instructor had me pull a plastic gun from my holster and try to shoot him. Even gave me first opportunity to do so. Before my gun even left the holster, my instructor closed the 10 feet distance between us and stabbed me right between the eyes. Was a very big wake up call.

I'd hate to go up against a guy with a sword within a 15 feet distance. Past that, bring it on.

 

[mete]

I'm glad that so many of you know exactly how it's going to happen !! For me it's not going to be a game and certainly not a 'fair fight' .I'll take every advantage which includes having the best weapon - a firearm!

 

[Rufus Pisanus]

Originally posted by mete:

I'm glad that so many of you know exactly how it's going to happen !! For me it's not going to be a game and certainly not a 'fair fight' .I'll take every advantage which includes having the best weapon - a firearm!

Hey, I didn't say I wouldn't want a short barrel 12 gauge loaded with buckshot and a 44 mag in my holster. It just happened that I didn't have a firearm available right there. As it was already stated by others, with surprise and knowledge of the layout a guy armed with a sword has a chance.

Now I gave up surprise to try and scare him off and if the guy had been armed and determined it would have been a serious mistake on my part. Still, I could see both his hands fiddling with the blinders and if he had tried reaching for a gun I would still have had a chance to create a hole in his torso...As it happened he simply fled. (edited for typo)

 

[JShirley]

mete,

there's absolutely no need for sarcasm. It's just simple logic that, at extremely close range, something that barely needs to press harder than a simple touch to cause damage, is dangerous.

It's also simple logic that the firearm has two advantages over other weapons: distance and ease of use. If you don't have distance, someone with Stone Age weaponry can clean your clock.

Distance is your friend if you have a firearm. That is why those with little training especially benefit from having one*, but by the same token, it doesn't take much training to be dangerous at close range with a foot of sharp steel or a 1-lb rock in your hand.

*Firearms initially became so prevalent not because of their superior lethality or range, but because it was so much quicker to train users on them than with previous weapon systems.

John

 

[50 Freak]

For those of you that rely on a firearm to be your one and only tool. You are in for a rude awakening. When that happens, hope it's one of those situations you can walk away from.

As for me. I used to think "if I had a firearm, I don't need to do anything except draw and shoot".....WRONG....If a guy is attacking me with a knife, first thing I do is evade, then draw, then shoot. (preferably doing all three things within a nano second of eachother) Not stand there and shoot. Good way to end up dead.

 

[gripper]

sakimoto, I like the tools you've chosen!!Years ago when I was living in less hospitable surroundings,I had occasiion to "repel hostile boarders"in th edoorway of my apartment at 03:00am;they were looking to rough off the gram guy down the hall,and got the wrong room.My dog woke me(elderly,harmless Pitbull named King) as they were forcing the door;all I had handy was an old E-tool.When I chopped into them(shin and shoulder) they realized their mistake and departed post haste.Truthfully,I lucked out;they had a large kitchen knife and a carpet cutter,but no guns.Considering the guy whose leg I chopped was in front of and at an angle fromt theguy whose shoulder got opened;the trail guy could have had time to draw and shoot.
Next day?New digs,bettter locks and my old GP100 in closer reach.Oh, and a bowl of steaktips for King I really loved that dog!