iamkris
Member
"Define rapid fire"
2 20-round mags in <60 seconds is about rattle battle specs
2 20-round mags in <60 seconds is about rattle battle specs
How accurate is Loaded Std M1A?
- Thread starter Dmack_901
- Start date
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Mannlicher
Member
Dmack, my Loaded M1A, with iron sights, groups right around an inch at 100 yards. This is from a bench rest, with good ammo.
Standing on my hind legs, again with the iron sights, and using Portuguese Mil Surp ammo, the rifle will shoot two inch or better groups.
Standing on my hind legs, again with the iron sights, and using Portuguese Mil Surp ammo, the rifle will shoot two inch or better groups.
Damn right....The M1A/ M14 is a very good manhunter....the .223 is a very good paperhunter....
All of this obsession with "MOA" is well, what it is....If @ 500 yrds you hit a person in the torso with a 7.62 x 51mm he is DRT....PERIOD. Plenty of Marine Corps riflemen qualified "expert" with a rack grade M14 @ 600yrds with open sights BEFORE the AR/M16 series came into play.
NUFF said
MaceWindu
Steve Smith
Moderator Emeritus
iamkris: I like all the answers from our "regulars." The standard match Rapid Fire event is not going to cause accellerated wear on your barrel. Your buddy probably is just like me if he shoots NTIT (Rattle Battle). I have two guns I use for standard matches and then I have an NTIT gun. I usually rotate my oldest barrel to the NTIT gun before it starts getting flyers at 600.
I am positive that an NTIT (Rattle Battle) barrel will see a lot of wear. We push pretty hot loads and we will have 3-4 practice runs at a time before a break. That is 30 rounds in 50 seconds, 3-4 times in about 6-8 minutes total. You can definitely feel the heat in the barrel.
I would not use my normal match barrels for NTIT because it is abusive. I wouldn't say that any good match barrel is a prima donna, as they only get better the higher-end they are, but they are certainly not going to put up with abuse.
Here's the most important part I think: If you cannot RELIABLY CALL a bad shot or RECOGNIZE a flyer at 600 yards then all the throat erosion in the world doesn't matter. I can call a bad shot there and I can recognize a flyer, I care about my good barrels being treated well, but if I were a blaster and couldn't tell the difference anyway and was happy if all the bullets hit the paper at 600 yards, then I would have a different opinion.
My latest match rifle sticker: "It's not your rifle, you SUCK!" MANY more "bad" shots are blamed on poor equipment than should be. The culprit is more than likely bad shooting.
To the original poster and the M14 folks: Yes, the M14 is arguably a better hunting rifle for anything larger than 100 lbs to about elk size. Regardless, if one wants to really learn how to handle either, I personally believe that learning to do very well on the AR and then transitioning to the M14 is much easier. Not only does the high-end AR make a better match platform, but it also serves as an excellent trainer for the high-end M14 as it will teach all the fundamentals much better and will keep your ammo costs to a minimum.
Once you have lerned how to handle an AR REALLY WELL, you can pick up just about any .30-06 or smaller and perform quite well with it.
I am positive that an NTIT (Rattle Battle) barrel will see a lot of wear. We push pretty hot loads and we will have 3-4 practice runs at a time before a break. That is 30 rounds in 50 seconds, 3-4 times in about 6-8 minutes total. You can definitely feel the heat in the barrel.
I would not use my normal match barrels for NTIT because it is abusive. I wouldn't say that any good match barrel is a prima donna, as they only get better the higher-end they are, but they are certainly not going to put up with abuse.
Here's the most important part I think: If you cannot RELIABLY CALL a bad shot or RECOGNIZE a flyer at 600 yards then all the throat erosion in the world doesn't matter. I can call a bad shot there and I can recognize a flyer, I care about my good barrels being treated well, but if I were a blaster and couldn't tell the difference anyway and was happy if all the bullets hit the paper at 600 yards, then I would have a different opinion.
My latest match rifle sticker: "It's not your rifle, you SUCK!" MANY more "bad" shots are blamed on poor equipment than should be. The culprit is more than likely bad shooting.
To the original poster and the M14 folks: Yes, the M14 is arguably a better hunting rifle for anything larger than 100 lbs to about elk size. Regardless, if one wants to really learn how to handle either, I personally believe that learning to do very well on the AR and then transitioning to the M14 is much easier. Not only does the high-end AR make a better match platform, but it also serves as an excellent trainer for the high-end M14 as it will teach all the fundamentals much better and will keep your ammo costs to a minimum.
Once you have lerned how to handle an AR REALLY WELL, you can pick up just about any .30-06 or smaller and perform quite well with it.
iamkris
Member
Thanks Steve and others. Good info.
My apoligies for the thread hijacking.
My apoligies for the thread hijacking.
30Cal
Member
That pretty much stands for any sort of position shooting. A good smallbore shooter should be able to do pretty well across the course. I think the transition for M14->AR would be easier than AR->M14. The AR isn't as demanding when it comes to sitting rapid.
Ty
45R
Member
My standard M1A will shoot 1.5MOA with Port from the bench. I have a synthetic stock with a bedded forearm. With Aussie, she shoots 2-2.5 MOA if I do my part.
Steve Smith
Moderator Emeritus
Smallbore shooters do better at XC shooting than anyone else at the onset. Typically, the smaller your caliber, the easier it is to identify and eliminate shooter induced errors...hence the reasoning for starting with an AR in HP XC shooting.
Duke of Lawnchair
Member
My M1A Loaded cannot shoot any sort of surplus ammunition worth a darn.
It can, however, group fairly decently with off-the-shelf match ammunition in the 168gr flavor.
If it's between my M1A (a rest that's bolted to a granite block, match grade ammunition and a perfect day) and one of my AR15s (no rest, one of my Turner slings, Federal XM193 or Winchester Q3131A, my shooting mitt and an absolutely cruddy day), I'd pick the AR15 everytime. Gimme Black Hills .223 and I'll call it a day.
I'm THAT dissatisfied with MY M1A. Been debating on getting it rebarreled.
Despite my dissatisfaction towards the gun, besides the barrel, receiver, front sight and SA muzzle brake it's chock full of USGI components, and that is why I keep it.
Also, I have seen and used M1As that perform better than mine on paper.
-Jim
It can, however, group fairly decently with off-the-shelf match ammunition in the 168gr flavor.
If it's between my M1A (a rest that's bolted to a granite block, match grade ammunition and a perfect day) and one of my AR15s (no rest, one of my Turner slings, Federal XM193 or Winchester Q3131A, my shooting mitt and an absolutely cruddy day), I'd pick the AR15 everytime. Gimme Black Hills .223 and I'll call it a day.
I'm THAT dissatisfied with MY M1A. Been debating on getting it rebarreled.
Despite my dissatisfaction towards the gun, besides the barrel, receiver, front sight and SA muzzle brake it's chock full of USGI components, and that is why I keep it.
Also, I have seen and used M1As that perform better than mine on paper.
-Jim
spartacus2002
Member
I'm wondering if your loaded would do better in a GI synthetic or bedded stock. I had one that went from 4" to 1" at 100 yards with a bedded stock.
Steve Smith
Moderator Emeritus
Duke, I agree with Spartacus, it's probably the bedding (or lack thereof). Of coruse, a bed job on an M1A ain't cheap, but I'd guess that the barrel is better than that.
Also, are the sights solid? Does the rear wiggle around? How about the front?
Also, are the sights solid? Does the rear wiggle around? How about the front?
iamkris
Member
So I ended up getting a M1A loaded. Here's a benchrested iron sight group with Port surplus. It isn't typical though...usually shoots 1.5-2 MOA with surplus. With my homebrews of 168 gr SMK and 41 gr IMR 4895 2.80" OAL (info provided with no implied liability for your use) it is turning in sub-MOA groups, benched with irons.
I haven't scoped it yet to see what it will do.
I haven't scoped it yet to see what it will do.
Duke of Lawnchair
Member
The best it's done was in a bedded McMillan, and we're still talking about the same size groups.
The sights are rock solid.
My M1A just can't shoot surplus worth a darn, period. I don't expect it to, either. These days require that I have to be on a budget, so the gun doesn't get any use.
-Jim
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