How involved is bp revolver cleaning?

[TheOutlawKid]

Only use the synthetic grease. Dont use petroleum based grease. Although ive never had rust problems with Mobile1 grease used alone...i add lanolin as a rust preventer along with very little Barricade. Gives me peice of mind. I also use a mix ofanolin with, mobile1 grease, and canola oil as an arbor lube. Works great. I used to use mink oil in my mixes but noticed it would cause rust, light surface rust that didnt go deep but you could wipe it with a rag and it would stain the rags. I did many tests and saw that anything that used mink oil would stain my rags brown. At first i thought maybe it was the mink oil oxidizing or something but when u smelt it all u could smell was rust. Makes great vold weather patch lube but not good for rust prevention or a metal to metal lubricant

 

[mustanger98]

Considering the discussion here on grease packing, which in some ways sounds like a good idea, I'm reminded of stories like Hickok (and probably others in his era) who shot/cleaned/loaded the guns every morning. You'd think surely they didn't detail strip two guns every morning before breakfast. I got to wondering how they did handle it.

 

[LaneP]

Do you tend to keep your percussion revolvers loaded? I am tempted, but then I would be transporting loaded guns to the range, which can be upsetting to peace officers in my neck of the woods.

I loaded my Lyman New Model Army .44 in August 1989 and finally got it to the range to shoot it during the summer of 2017. It stayed uncapped and loaded in my safe for 28 years.

After capping it at the range, 3 out of 6 shots fired right away. On the remaining 3 chambers the cap went off but no discharge. After recapping them, they fired on the next go.

 

[woodnbow]

Do you tend to keep your percussion revolvers loaded? I am tempted, but then I would be transporting loaded guns to the range, which can be upsetting to peace officers in my neck of the woods.

Yes. I reload when I finish cleaning. In most states the muzzleloader is not considered loaded if the nipples are uncapped. I don’t know about your state.

 

[mustanger98]

Yes. I reload when I finish cleaning. In most states the muzzleloader is not considered loaded if the nipples are uncapped. I don’t know about your state.

Georgia is that way.

 

[Ironhand54]

I use an ultrasonic cleaner to clean up the action. Solvent and water mix. Followed by a air gun to dry and a spray in oil to lube. Works great for barrels too, if you can find a cleaner that is long enough.

A question for those who grease pack. Do you have problems with grease staining the leather if the gun is left holstered? What about leaking on hot days?

IronHand

 

[45 Dragoon]

Ironhand54, qood question! The Mobil 1 grease maintains consistency to 350 deg. That said, I haven't had any "leaching" and haven't heard any problems from anyone. I would be careful mixing too many things with it as this could/ will change the temp.rating and cause the problems you are asking about. I think the temp rating was a deciding factor in selecting Mobil 1, of course the main reason was because it "plays well" with black powder!

Mike

 

[Enfielder]

The same way I clean my deer skulls after boiling. Take it to the all night DIY car wash. Chuck it on the ground and hit it with high pressure soap and rinse. Take the grips off, of course, unless you're using synthetic.

Really, though, the dishwasher does the trick.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Really, though, the dishwasher does the trick.

Good idea but I'm not sure how my other half would feel about it.
I disassemble and clean in hot water. It doesn't take more then a half hour.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

I have small 2 oz spray bottles (found in the travel section of the hygeine aisles in walmart) that i fill with a cleaner and distilled water. I have one with dawn and distilled water, and one with LA Awesome and distilled water, one balistol and distilled water. You would be surprised how little water and cleaner is actually needed. These spray bottles last a long time before they need refilled. Im finding myself using the LA Awesome (found at dollar stores) and distilled water the most now. This stuff gets things really cleaned yet is gentle on bluing. Ive had some guns that were cleaned with Balistol and water or Dawn and water...yet when i run a patch with the LA Awesome and water it comes out with a bit of grime that the other cleaners couldnt lift. I hear some of the pro competative shooters are using it now too. These little bottles last quite a while...its surprising how little water and cleaner it takes. There are so many different methods and cleaners to use and its all just a matter of preference. But if any of you members have a dollar to invest then id ask you to head on over to a local dollar store and get yourself a bottle of LA Awesome. Heres what it looks like..its a darker yellow liquid but mine has been diluted. Says no acid, no ammonia, no bleach etc.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

That's an interesting question.
For those of us who have not ever fully stripped a revolver, adding grease would require it to eventually be stripped to clean out the grease.
But by just washing the frame out with soapy water means that stripping it can be delayed for a long time.
That's how the choice of powders can make a difference.

Washing it in water means it DOES need to be stripped in order to make sure everything is dried out and relubed.

I never take the action apart but about once a year or so depending on how much I shoot that gun and if it looks like it needs it. I wash the barrels and cylinders on old style Colt with hot water.

On my SAA revolvers I clean the barrel with windex followed by ballistol and wash the cylinder with hot water followed by ballistol. The rest of the frame I wipe down with a rag and some ballistol, on my main match revolvers that get shot a lot I might take them down this winter since it's been a couple years or more since they've been completely tore down, cleaned and inspected.

I only shoot real bp, if shooting Pyrodex you have to go through much more pains or the gun will rust with our humidity levels.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

lubriplate # 105 works great on internal packing and arbor lube

That's what I used for gun lube, been using it for years. If it will lube an engine well enough for start up then it will last a really long time in a firearm.

I will say it will dry out and turn to a cakey white crust after a while especially on a gun not in use so needs to be cleaned every two or three years or so.

 

[bigstick6017555]

That's what I used for gun lube, been using it for years. If it will lube an engine well enough for start up then it will last a really long time in a firearm.

I will say it will dry out and turn to a cakey white crust after a while especially on a gun not in use so needs to be cleaned every two or three years or so.

If you can get you hands on Lubriplate 1240 it is better yet and does not dry over time. Problem is, the smallest amount you can buy is 35 lb pail. It is used a lot in mining and construction on automatic dispensing systems. I got my hands on some years ago when i worked in an iron ore mine. Stands up to heat and water pressure, takes wiping or solvent to get it off. It uses lithium as a thickener instead of calcium like 105, but the 105 is better in lower temps

 

[arcticap]

Washing it in water means it DOES need to be stripped in order to make sure everything is dried out and relubed.

You may be right but I'm gambling that the little bit of APP residue that enters the Remington frame is being washed and rinsed away.
I use just about scalding water that requires using latex dish washing gloves to handle submersing the frame.
Then I'll use cotton swabs in the openings as far as I can reach and usually don't find much of any residue, basically only trace amounts within reach of the openings.
After a short drying time I liberally apply mineral oil with saturated swabs until the oil leaks out which should help to dissolve and remove any left over residue that can't be reached with swabs.

With the grips off the water basically evaporates.
Some dry their gun in the oven but the only time I did that I got some flash rust.
However alcohol, WD 40 or compressed air can also help to dispel water if it's not scalding hot enough to evaporate with help by shaking it out.

I'm also gambling that I'll be able to just wait until something breaks before tearing it down.
If I tore it down I would just break something or booger up the screws because I'm not really competent at it.
We've had posters who either can't get their guns apart or put them back together properly, and then they needed to buy new parts to fix their mistakes.
Remington parts are inexpensive to replace if any parts do fail due to not tearing down the gun.
APP 3F powder is also very easy to clean.
Yep, I'm gambling that the powder choice makes a difference.
BTW, pure mineral oil is a laxative than can be purchased at a Dollar, big box store or pharmacy chain and is the main ingredient in Ballistol so it's cheap enough to use all you want.
Even coat the gun with it before leaving the range and then put it in a plastic bag until you're ready to wash it.

 

[LaneP]

Next time I have my BP hand cannons out on the range I plan to clean them with Ballistol. For years I used hot soapy water and then went through a phase in which I used Windex with vinegar. For soapy water cleaning, I remove the bbl/cylinder, backstrap and trigger guard, flush everything out, hit the bore with a brush, then set the parts on a baking pan in the oven at 250 degrees for 15-20 minutes, let cool, then relube. There is usually some minor flash rusting on some parts out of the oven, but that disappears when I hit it with CLP.

Soapy water is the most thorough for me, but the biggest pain. Windex with vinegar works great but be cautious around charcoal bluing, as it will streak it if allowed to sit for any length of time. For the usual hot blue encountered on today's repro guns, I've never had any problems.

I also used Windex with vinegar to swab bores shot with corrosive primed ammo, and have never had a speck of rust show afterward. For cleaning brass cases shot with BP, I decap them in a decap die (does not size the case), dump them in a plastic container with hot water and a squirt of dish detergent, agitate for a minute, then flush with cold water until all soap is dissolved, then spread on a baking pan and oven dry at the same time/temp as above. Following that they go in the vibratory case cleaner for a few hours and they come out looking brand new and ready for their next load.

But this coming black powder season I plan on trying just a Ballistol dilution to clean my caplock wheel guns.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Ive never gone so in depth with cleaning my guns...such as using an oven or special machinery. Just use a wooden dowel that i place cleaning patches on the end of and a brass cleaning rod that has a brush attachment. I use these to clean my barrels and cylinders. And after i clean with my choice of cleaner i then coat with a light coat of Barricade. Ive never had rust and thats because i live in humid south texas and use corrosive home made primers most of the time. Oh and i also got a set of nylon brushes that are used to clean baby bottles...they come in all sizes even small enough to clean inside the nipples...well worth the small investment of less than 4 bucks.

 

[bigstick6017555]

Gun cleaning regimes are as plentiful as old wives tales. There is no 100% correct way to clean a firearm. As long as your method produces a clean and rust free firearm you are good to go. Some shooters dislike cleaning firearms, myself, i enjoy it, and at the same time learn how it ticks and what makes it function, i like to tinker and slick up the Colt and Remington style reproduction single actions. It makes them long winter days and evenings go faster.

 

[Enfielder]

For those who don't know, black powder and most of the substitutes leave behind a salt residue. Salt is highly hydroscopic, meaning that it attracts water. Iron attracts the oxygen from the water and then you get iron oxide or rust. Your mission after shooting a BP is to remove the salt residue and clean the carbon and Catherine crap. There is no better way to dissolve salt than to use water. Soap will help with the dissolving of the particulates left behind as it allows the water to infiltrate into smaller places due to its lower surface tension. Using near boiling water will help a great deal. I always manage to burn myself when I clean my BP, but that's operator error.
Using boiling hot water will heat up the metal parts to a point that any residual water will evaporate quickly. I've even taken a torch or heat gun to my guns to expedite the drying process. After they are dry, lubricate it as you would if it were a new gun. Spray lube will work its way into those places that you worry about. In a pinch or hurry, I've let is dry and hit it with WD40 (which some feel is a cardinal sin for gun lube) and I've left it to properly lubricate later that day.
Oil on a patch of any other traditional method of cleaning a gun will not remove that salt alone. You need to get it out and hot hot water will do it. I ruined my first muzzle loader not knowing this.

All of that being said, the dishwasher is the perfect place and makes it easy. Just wait until she's not home.

 

[whughett]

A hundred shooters a hundred different ways and methods.

Several of my guns came back packed with red grease. I kept the idea until the first annual complete disassemble and cleaning. I just didn’t like the heavy contamination of black powder fouling in the grease around the hammer and hand area. Then too my own method of cleaning, removing the wood and cleaning under a hot running tap with dish soap, then blowing dry with high pressure air, followed by spraying Ballistol in every opening and a lower pressure blast of air, led to the grease being displaced.
I can see the advantages of the grease with perhaps a competitive shooter, which is were the idea originated I was told.

 

[robhof]

On these greases mentioned like the Lubriplate 105 and Mobil 1 red (i'm guessing the bearing grease is being referenced here) is being synthetic a requirement?

Would you run into the same issue as petroleum based cleaners reacting with black powder and subs creating hard to clean residue if the grease isn't synthetic?

Answer is Yes, petrol based greases will act like any petrol product, synthetic is the way to go. Oh and I've shot my pistol when it was 18 degrees outside and the gun functioned well even at that low a temp. with the red grease packing.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I guess I should chime in on this one.

I stopped completely disassembling my Black Powder revolvers to clean them a long, long time ago. Probably back in the 1980s.

Besides being a lot of extra work, there is the chance of loosing small parts, or cross threading screws.

I also learned a long, long time ago that if you clean with water, you have to get all the water out again. Leave some of the water down inside and you are asking for rust to happen.

I used to completely disassemble my Cap & Ball revolvers, and clean everything with hot water, just like everybody else does. Then to drive out the water before reassembling I would place everything in an oven heated to just above the boiling temperature of water. Hot drying the parts this way always resulted in flash rust.

Let's consider a couple of facts here that I don't think anybody has mentioned yet.

1. Black Powder fouling is not as corrosive as most shooters believe. In the old days, the combination of Black Powder fouling with corrosive primers made for corrosive fouling that could quickly cause rust. We don't use corrosive primers any more, and I believe most caps are non-corrosive these days too. The result is that Black Powder fouling is not as corrosive as most shooters believe. If you don't clean your BP revolver the same day you shot it, it is not going to disintegrate into a pile of rust over night.

2. I discovered a long time ago that if Black Powder fouling is soaked in oil, it looses its ability to suck moisture out of the air, which is the cause of most corrosion with Black Powder fouling. Yes BP fouling is extremely dry, and given the chance it will absorb water vapor from the air. Moist BP fouling in contact with steel is a good recipe to form iron oxide. But if the fouling is soaked in oil, that does not happen. Think of a dry sponge. Given the chance it absorbs lots of water. But if the sponge is already saturated with water, it cannot absorb any more. So if BP fouling is saturated with oil, it is like that saturated sponge and cannot absorb water vapor from the air.

I have been shooting Black Powder cartridges in my revolvers, rifles, and shotguns in CAS for close to twenty years now. Early on a friend clued me in to a water based BP solvent he called Super Juice. It is a 1/1/1 mixture of Murphy's Oil Soap, drugstore rubbing alcohol, and drugstore Hydrogen Per Oxide. Mixed together in equal proportions. I coined the term Murphy's Mix for this concoction a long time ago, and you will probably see mention of it if you go to the SASS Wire.

Let's go back for a moment to my statement that BP fouling soaked in oil cannot absorb moisture. Before I shoot any Black Powder in a firearm, I first 'set it up' for Black Powder shooting. I completely disassemble the piece, I remove all the oils and grease from everything with solvents, and then I relube everything with Ballistol before reassembling the firearm. That's it, I do this only once. Ballistol is a very BP fouling friendly lubricant, developed by the Germans in 1904 as a lubricant for firearms and a treatment for leather.

https://ballistol.com/about-us/






I used to remove the oils from my guns with a strong solvent like laquer thinner, but these days I use rubbing alcohol. Safer to use.



Here is a Colt Single Action Army, completely disassembled, ready to be relubed with Ballistol. Unlike most advice which says to use lubricants sparingly, because too much oil can attract attract dust, I slather the Ballistol on nice and heavy, so every square inch of the inside of the frame and all the parts has a nice, even coating of Ballistol. Attracting dust is not an issue.






This is an antique Smith and Wesson New Model Number Three. I have disassembled it as far as I care to, to ready it for Black Powder shooting. I have popped out the cylinder and removed the grips and hammer spring. I have removed the side plate and pulled out the hammer. I do not take these revolvers apart any further because they are quite tricky. Instead I use plenty of Q tips and rubbing alcohol to swab down every surface to remove all the old oils, then relubricate everything with Ballistol before putting it back together.






Here is the inside of the frame of a S&W New Model Number Three with the old oil dissolved away, ready to be coated with Ballistol. Notice I have not completely disassembled the gun. The trigger, trigger spring, and the rest of the lockwork are still inside. I did not want to drive out the pins to remove them. Plenty of rubbing alcohol with Q-Tips, followed by a coating of Ballistol does the job.






After preparing my firearms this way, they are ready to be shot with Black Powder.

Here are the ingredients of Murphy's Mix. I buy them in the local supermarket. I buy them in 32 ounce containers so when mixed together they will fit into an old, opaque 3 quart juice jug.

Now all of you guys who are sitting back and saying why come up with such a complicated concoction when hot water has been a good way to clean clean Black Powder for hundreds of years, I have a couple of answers for you. First of all, you don't have to heat this stuff, you can use it cold. Which means you can use it in the field, you don't have to go home to heat it up. I always clean my rifle at the car with Murphy's Mix before heading home. Cold, right out of the bottle.

But more important, unlike cleaning with water, you don't have to get all the water out again. What ever fouling has gotten down inside the mechanism of the gun, I just leave it there. It will not cause any rust. The alcohol is about 70% water, the rest is alcohol. The Per Oxide is about 94% water, the rest is Per Oxide. It is the water in these two ingredients that does the actual dissolving of the BP fouling. The Alcohol content helps the mixture evaporate quickly, and the Per Oxide adds a little fizz to help lift off stubborn fouling. When the alcohol, water, and Per Oxide evaporate away, the oil soap is left. The oil soap will coat everything inside with more oil. And there will be no rust.






Once a year or so I completely disassemble my BP firearms to clean away all the black, oily guck that has accumulated down inside. There is always plenty of black, oil guck. When I wipe it off, there is never any rust. Never.

Here is a Colt I took apart last year to clean out all the Black Oily guck. Notice there is plenty of it. There is no rust. The Ballistol and the Oil Soap prevented the fouling from absorbing any water vapor, so there is no rust. Been doing this for close to twenty years.






I seldom clean my guns the same day I shoot them. I'm just too tired after driving to a match, spending the day shooting, and then driving home again. I try to clean my guns during the week following a match. I have often gone much, much longer than a week. I will not tell you how long, but I did take TWO MONTHS to clean a pair of my New Model Number Threes after a match. Just plain lazy. Once they were clean, there was no rust any where. Remember what I said about BP fouling not being as corrosive with modern non-corrosive primers? No excuse for being that lazy, but them's the facts.




When I clean my Colts I remove the cylinder and the cylinder pin. I also pull the removable bushing out of the cylinder. I fill a cup with Murphy's Mix and dunk the cylinder in it. Then I use a bronze bore brush to scrub out the chambers. A few Q-Tips soaked in Murphy's Mix clean out the center hole. A bronze bristle brush scrubs off the outside and it is clean. I run a bore snake through each chamber to dry them out and set the cylinder aside. Next the Cylinder Bushing and the Cylinder Pin each get dunked in the cup of M-Mix and brushed off with a bristle brush. The bushing gets a 22 caliber bore snake dragged through it to dry it out. Set them aside. Next is the frame. A bunch of passes of a bronze bore brush through the bore cleans out all the fouling. A bore snake dragged through the bore wipes it clean. Then lots of scrubbing with bristle brushes on the cylinder window of the frame. Special attention to the corners where fouling tends to accumulate. I am always sure to use Q-Tips to work some M-Mix into the slot in the frame where the hand pokes through. I also dunk some down into the frame where the hammer slot is. This renews the oil down inside. That's it, the gun is now clean. Next, I relube everything a little bit. One cleaning patch soaked in Ballistol gets run through the bore and chambers, followed by a dry patch to mop up the excess. This leaves a light coating of Ballistol in the bore and chambers for next time. A few drops of Ballistol down inside with Q-Tips. A quick wipe down with a patch lightly soaked in Ballistol on everything else and I am done. Total elapsed time to clean two revolvers about 20 minutes if I don't get distracted.

Cleaning a rifle or shotgun is even easier since they are basically just tubes. With a cartridge such as 44-40, which expands well to seal the chamber almost all of the fouling stays in the bore. M-Mix, with bore brushes and and patches, a little bit of scrubbing around the carrier and bolt, drip some M-Mix into the frame by the hammer, and they are clean. Apply some Ballistol to the bore just like with a revolver.



I will tell you one other thing about cleaning up after Black Powder. Far less scrubbing is required than cleaning after Smokeless. The fouling is not as stubborn, as long as you used a soft BP compatible bullet lube. Use Smokeless Powder bullets with hard modern bullet lube and you will have much more work cleaning the hardened fouling out.


The other nice thing is there is never any leading with Black Powder. I don't know why, perhaps because BP burns so hot, but there is never any leading inside the chambers or bore.




Here is a photo of an Antique Merwin Hulbert and antique S&W New Model Number Three ready for cleaning after shooting with Black Powder. That is as far as I disassemble them. In fact I usually do not remove the grips. But I use a heck of a lot more Q-Tips than that.






Cleaning a Top Break S&W is a bit different than cleaning a Colt. Lots of M-Mix down inside the hollow cylinder arbor to remove any fouling. And a bronze bristle brush to remove visible foulinig.






A dirty Top Break recoil shield before cleaning.






The same revolver after cleaning.






Just for fun, here is my cleaning kit. Lots of bore brushes and bristle brushes. Lots of Q-Tips and several bore snakes of different sizes. A small squirt bottle of Ballistol. The larger bottle has Murphy's Mix in it.






One other thing:

You guys who like to clean your guns in the dishwasher, think about the lead you are exposing your family to when you use the same dishwasher that you clean your family's dishes in.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

On these greases mentioned like the Lubriplate 105 and Mobil 1 red (i'm guessing the bearing grease is being referenced here) is being synthetic a requirement?

Would you run into the same issue as petroleum based cleaners reacting with black powder and subs creating hard to clean residue if the grease isn't synthetic?

All I know is Lubriplate 105 is a calcium grease. I don't know exactly what kind but I've always understood it's basically like a soap grease. It acts like lithium but it is not lithium and withstands heat extremely well and does not seem affected by BP residue much at all until it has been completely thickened by the filth.

I've used it for years, tried it by chance never hearing of anyone else trying it and was amazed how it works in BP firearms. I had some in the shop for engines and my initial thought was this stuff works in an engine on start up so it would have to last in a gun but it turns out I believe the calcium/ soap like properties essentially softens and cleans BP residue more than just lubricating.

I have heard others rave about the synthetic greases but I tried them and they fail miserably compared to Lubriplate 105.

 

[Mike OTDP]

I shoot my revolvers a lot (they are my primary competition arms), but only detail-strip them about every six months. The bore, cylinder, cylinder pin, and nipples get thoroughly cleaned after practice sessions. Home cleaning regimen is to flush with hot water, follow up with a scrubbing with patches soaked in Simple Green, flush again, dry, then lube with a Ballistol-soaked patch. Scrape out any accessible fouling from the action with a dental pick, then spritz some Ballistol in there.

Field cleaning regimen is with a container of Ballistol-soaked patches. They aren't as effective a cleaner as Simple Green, but they work...and they solve the clean/dry/lube problem. Make sure to pull the nipples and clean those, too.

 

[woodnbow]

I shoot my revolvers a lot (they are my primary competition arms), but only detail-strip them about every six months. The bore, cylinder, cylinder pin, and nipples get thoroughly cleaned after practice sessions. Home cleaning regimen is to flush with hot water, follow up with a scrubbing with patches soaked in Simple Green, flush again, dry, then lube with a Ballistol-soaked patch. Scrape out any accessible fouling from the action with a dental pick, then spritz some Ballistol in there.

Field cleaning regimen is with a container of Ballistol-soaked patches. They aren't as effective a cleaner as Simple Green, but they work...and they solve the clean/dry/lube problem. Make sure to pull the nipples and clean those, too.

Other than the ballistol, (I use Eezox) I clean the same way but using moose milk as the solvent. I doesn’t take long and it’s kind of surprising how little fouling makes it’s way into the action. It’s not really much more involved or time consuming than cleaning a modern arm. Although I know quite a few people who don’t do that more than once a year or so.