Hypothetical question when carrying. What to do.

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Mrcymstr

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Dear highroadians,
I do not drive often and I carry at all times. The people I normally ride with do NOT have HCPs. Given these facts let's say I was going to start a new bank account and upon arrival I notice the bank is a posted location. In Tennessee it is illegal to carry past a properly posted door. Normally I would try to find another place to do business but for arguments sake let's say I opt to still use this location. If the driver chooses to remain in the car what do I do with my weapon? I don't much care for the idea of unloading it in the vehicle and storing it in the trunk because that telegraphs to anyone watching I have something of value I just stowed away and can imagine if someone suspects or sees the firearm an interesting police encounter. However that course of action seems the only legal option. What say you?

(Side note: also assume I was unaware of the location being prohibited beforehand so I could not have planned ahead)
 
I think you're correct in that unloading it and stowing it in the trunk would be the only legal option. Unfortunate to say the least.

My advice is to have the talk with your driver. Whether its typically a friend, your spouse, whoever. Try to convince him/her/them to obtain an HCP (assuming that's Tennessee's version of a concealed carry permit). Even if they opt not to carry; if you trust them enough with it, you could hand over your gun while doing business with companies that don't care about your safety, and you wouldn't be breaking the law. Frankly, the latter ought to be a crime. Haha
 
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You can clear the gun in the car, and put it inside something (like a jacket or something) so it doesn't look like you're putting anything expensive in the trunk. I wouldn't think twice of someone throwing a jacket in their trunk.

If its a car that has trunk access through the rear seat, you can go through that hatch instead of going outside the car with your gun.
 
Outstanding question.

Many people do not seem to realize that a CCW permit does not allow them to carry everywhere all the time. Heck, some people know this and don't care, but that's another discussion entirely.

And some people do realize this, but never give it any real thought until they encounter a similar situation.

Either way, this is an outstanding question because the time to think about such situations is BEFORE encountering them, so you already know what to do.

The short answer to your question is "you don't take your weapon into the bank". The details about how you comply with this are pretty much limited to:

1. Go away and come back later without your weapon.

2. Go to another bank which does allow you to carry inside. (I rather suspect you'll have an extremely difficult time finding any such banking institution.)

3. Safely secure your weapon in the car (with or without any passengers who may or may not have their own permits).

At all times, safety should be paramount in your decision making process. Just because your friend may have a permit of his own doesn't necessarily mean you should leave him your handgun in a loaded condition, or with ammunition readily available. I'm not saying your friend can't be trusted, I'm saying that you need to use your brain in making that decision.

And, of course, comply with the state and local laws about storing a weapon in your vehicle.

This is my opinion, and is how I would handle such a scenario myself:

Regardless of whether or not another person in the vehicle has a permit, I would NEVER pass a loaded weapon to someone else. This is a BAD HABIT to get into. I will always unload my weapon AND make sure no round is in the chamber. I will ensure the person receiving it verifies it's unloaded AND no round is in the chamber as soon as they receive it.

Regardless of whether or not another person in the vehicle has a permit, I have a moral (if not legal) obligation to how that weapon may be handled even when I'm not around. If there is not an absolute trust that the weapon will be handled EXACTLY the way I expect it to be handled, then I have no business in passing it to another person. Those expectations are both explicit (I tell them what they are) and implicit (common sense and legal).

Frankly, unless there is some overriding reason otherwise, I will unload my weapon, check it free and clear, and lock the weapon in the vehicle (trunk in my case). This can be done discretely with nobody else the wiser.

And if I'm truely worried about the ability to safely store my weapon discretely in the trunk because I may be worried that someone may break into the vehicle, then perhaps I should be re-thinking being at that bank at all in the first place.

Your question shows a lot of common sense that some people seem to be lacking. Keep up with that kind of thinking and you'll find yourself in few situations where you'll be caught flat-footed.

:):)
 
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upon arrival I notice the bank is a posted location. In Tennessee it is illegal to carry past a properly posted door. Normally I would try to find another place to do business but for arguments sake let's say I opt to still use this location
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Don't opt to use that location. Go to another bank and open your account. And send a letter to the first back explaining why you decided to take your business elsewhere.
 
Been many years since I have seen the inside of a bank. I use the outside ATM machine for everything and all my income is auto deposit. Outside ATM failing I use the drive through window. There are ways to conduct business with the bank without crossing the line to be inside the bank.

Now you have me thinking. Never noticed if my local bank branch has a no firearms sign? Go figure.

Ron
 
ok, since you know you are riding with someone else bring a bag ,a bicycle security cable and a lock. Depending on your EDC gun is a revolver or a auto?, secure it unloaded with the cable thru the the frame of the revolver with the cylinder open or thru the mag well and out the ejection port and then secure it to something secure in the trunk , possibly thru trunk hinge or something on that order. Take the key with you, there would be no constructive possession of the firearm by the driver.
 
ok, since you know you are riding with someone else bring a bag ,a bicycle security cable and a lock. Depending on your EDC gun is a revolver or a auto?, secure it unloaded with the cable thru the the frame of the revolver with the cylinder open or thru the mag well and out the ejection port and then secure it to something secure in the trunk , possibly thru trunk hinge or something on that order. Take the key with you, there would be no constructive possession of the firearm by the driver.
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Or simply use the cheapo lock provided with every handgun if you're worried about it. If you can carry a magazine into the bank, but not a gun, there's another option. Clear it and leave it, but take the magazine with you.
 
2. Go to another bank which does allow you to carry inside. (I rather suspect you'll have an extremely difficult time finding any such banking institution.)

Is that a regional thing? I've never seen a bank posted here in WA. I would think that carrying a lot of cash would be a great reason to carry even if you don't normally carry.

As far as unloading - my take would be to remove the holster and all w/o unloading and store that in the trunk. A gun in a proper holster is safe (as today's Detroit hug story indicates, not all holsters are proper). As an example in WA CCW holders can carry to the courthouse, where they put the gun in a locker while you're doing your jury service or whatever. They don't have you unload the gun, whether you are a civilian or a LEO. The administrative handling w/o a loading barrel is, IMHO, a greater danger than storing it in the holster.
 
Pintler, some places may restrict whether or not the gun can be loaded when stored in the car, especially if the driver doesn't have a permit.
 
Just for kicks, let's tweak the scenario a bit and not focus on banks. We bankers get beat up enough without taking hits for policies that come down from corporate attorneys who will never be swayed. Let's say you live in South Carolina and are going to a doctor's office where you will receive medical treatment. Sign or no sign, this is an automatic no carry scenario.

Like it or not, there are simply times when you can't or shouldn't carry. Plan ahead and if you must enter a no carry zone either make the trip with a fellow permit holder or make a single purpose trip to that location then back home with as little meandering as possible. Concealed carry is a constant challenge and almost always requires compromise.
 
My sister in law who carries concealed was making a deposit in the bank for her business and never noticed the guy at the next window was holding it up. He didn't show a weapon - just passed the note. Teller complied and when he left hit the panic button. Sister in law got out of there because while the bank may not have been posted, she didn't want to have to 'splain the contents of her purse. Can you say "situational awareness"?
 
Tough decision for you. Here in CO, "No gun" signs don't carry weight of law unless metal detectors are permanently installed at all (unrestricted) entances, so I would just disregard the sign and keep it concealed.

Since the signs where you're at do carry weight of law (according to you? I have never checked TN), you would be violating the law by carrying, so you have to decide for yourself if your moral compass lands more toward obeying the law at all costs, or if you're ok with violating a (stupid) law that will not have any effect on anyone unless you're forced to defend your life or the life of another against a violent actor. Only you can make this decision.
 
Sister in law got out of there because while the bank may not have been posted, she didn't want to have to 'splain the contents of her purse. Can you say "situational awareness"?
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Why would she have to explain the contents of her purse? Why does anyone know what is in her purse? As she was not involved, if she were a witness the cops wouldn't need to go through her belongings. If they did, and she's carrying legally, she shouldn't have to explain anything.
 
However that course of action seems the only legal option. What say you?
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No it ain't. LEAVE!

Why wold you want to give money to such an organization?
 
A little bit of clarification here on my part:

When I said "2. Go to another bank which does allow you to carry inside. (I rather suspect you'll have an extremely difficult time finding any such banking institution.)", this was based on an assumption that such difficulties arise from two main reasons:

1. These are corporate decisions, as someone else mentioned. Local branches don't generally make these rules, the banking corporation makes them. This means all branches of a particular bank will have the same rule, so if one is looking at a particular bank, this will generally be a uniform requirement.

2. Such decisions by financial institutions are based on multiple factors, outside of the usual presumption that "they're owned by a bunch of liberal jerks". Demographics, as well as the local political and public climate are included. So if you're in an area where the general public frowns on this, then the tendency is for most similar businesses to have similar rules. So it may be difficult to find a bank which does not have this posting in some areas.

Tennessee law leaves the decisions on this up to the financial institutions, since they are privately owned, so there isn't a state law which outright says you can't carry in the banks. If it's posted as no-carry, then you can't. Otherwise you can.
 
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I don't much care for the idea of unloading it in the vehicle and storing it in the trunk because that telegraphs to anyone watching I have something of value I just stowed away and can imagine if someone suspects or sees the firearm an interesting police encounter.
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If the driver is staying with the car, I don't see the problem. No interesting police encounter either, since you're legally carrying and doing the proper thing. But the driver my wonder why you want the trunk opened....

Another option would be to tell the driver to move on since you forgot to bring some documents needed to open the account.
 
I think you covered the right thing to do already. Where I live I take a permit to carry concealed as a sure sign I am dealing with a law abiding person. I hope all concealed carry holders are aware of the fact that among law enforcement in general they are seen as generally the minority they deal with, the law abiding and responsible members of society. Out of hundreds upon hundreds of encounters I've had with concealed carry holders I've only had to take away the rights of one single individual and that was a person carrying concealed while intoxicated which is a clear violation of my state's laws. Frankly I refuse to do business with any business that would put up such a sign. I hate to admit though that I don't know if my local banks have them sort of signs or not. Corporate policy is no excuse in my mind. I'll check in the future though. I carry concealed but as an off duty leo I don't have to worry about those types of signs and the few local businesses I have ever noticed post those kinds of signs quickly took them down because of the backlash from customers letting them know they refused to do business with them until they are removed.
 
There's a bank in east Texas whose sign says "Licensed gunowners are welcome", or something to the effect that we can carry in there.

My kinda bank.
 
What is the specific law in Tennessee? Here in KS it is legal to open carry without a permit so you could leave the gun in the car with the friend as long as he doesn't try to conceal it. Also theres the option to remove the magazine and keep the firearm in the car with the friend and you keep the magazine, the firearm is just a high priced paperweight then. Again I dont know Tennessee law but either one would be legal here in KS.
 
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