I am considering going to market with a different Concealed Carry Vest design-survey

[BullfrogKen]

Good morning folks. I passed this request through the mods that monitor this board, and it’s been cleared.

Brief history: I’ve been dissatisfied with the selection of what passes for the “discreet concealed carry vests” currently available on the market. After a year of futile searching, I decided if I wanted something truly discreet, I would have to make it. 4 years ago I starting doing just this, making what I consider casual articles of clothing that do not take on the appearance of a piece of gear. After shooting buddies and fellow team members noticed what I was doing, local interest grew and “me too” requests began. I had my label made, started learning some tailoring techniques for guys bigger than my scrawny butt, and began producing in bits and spurts of my off time garments for my close circle of like minded acquaintances.

I have now built up maybe a six month backlog, considering the time I am willing to dedicate to this endeavor. I’m not happy putting my friends off, so tomorrow I am meeting with the owner of a local sewing factory that accepts small order contract work to see if he can help fill my orders. Assuming he meets my quality standards, flexibility, and price I will give him an opportunity.

If this arrangement turns out satisfactory, I will explore entering the market and compete with the other products available. The next step before placing a large contract order is I need to ascertain the interest and desire for alternatives to the “gear” now out there passing for discreet concealment vests. I would invite any willing members to take a couple minutes to answer a brief market condition survey. I’ve attached it as a Word document. Please e-mail completed questionnaires to me rather than posting the answers on the board and using THR’s memory.

All I ask is this:
1. Be truthful – I have no idea who you are, and will not discuss your answers with anyone. No hubris or egos, please.
2. Only answer if you carry a concealed firearm. No adolescents please, nor I’m gonna when/if . . . Once you move to your new state, get your permit, first pistol, I’ll hopefully be ready when you are. I’m looking for the experienced, and disappointed like myself.

Answer as many or as few questions as you feel comfortable. I WILL NOT collect e-mail addresses. Once I get a response, I will store the answers and delete the original message. I AM NOT taking new orders right now. As I mentioned, I am already backlogged, and in fact have not yet determined if I will use this shop until after I meet with the owner tomorrow. Although, I am not that far from the Philly and New York garment districts, I am not quite yet prepared to make the 2-3 hour trip to form a business relationship.

Feel welcome to provide any input or suggestions you think I might have missed in my questions. I already know some of you will ask what they look like, and how they are different. I have no promotional quality pictures available, but I’ll bring home the wife’s digital camera and take some tomorrow evening and post them here.

Construction consists of summer weight men’s wear wool outer material; backed by a thin, breathable but robust interfacing to add body; with a cotton/poly lining chosen specifically for its slickness and inability to snag our gear. I add two generously sized, reinforced interior breast pockets, and that’s all – none on the outside. I’ve chosen summer weight men’s wear wool because it looks the best, has enough body to break up shapes underneath it, is durable, breathes, and it has worked for me so far where the 100% cotton and cotton blends have failed. I will not use synthetics. I only use wool, typically khakis, golds, light greens, blues, and some attractive patterns when I can find them. I’ll post pictures of my own completed personal garments, as well as swatches of material in inventory.

My e-mail address is below in a JPEG. Thanks for the tip . . . Enter and hit send.

Thanks everyone.

Ken

 

[BullfrogKen]

Problems attaching the word doc

Here's the text:

Describe your typical concealed carry habits:
 Seldom, only upon occasion
 Weekends and evenings
 Daily, elaborate below
 Outside of work/less than 6hrs/day
 6-12 hrs/day
 in excess of 12 hrs/day

Describe your commonly preferred mode of carry:
 Belt holster, strong side  Inside  Outside waistband
 Belt holster, weak side/crossdraw  Inside  Outside waistband
 Shoulder holster
 Pocket carry
 Ankle carry
 Other ____________

List supporting gear worn on the belt only:
 Flashlight
 Reload
 Fixed blade knife or multi-tool
 Cell Phone
 Other ____________

Characterize your last holster purchase. If your last purchase was uncharacteristic of your normal preferences, characterize your most commonly used piece:
 Off the shelf, nylon universal size, bargain priced (Uncle Mike’s)
 Bargain priced plastic (Fobus)
 High quality Kydex
 Production nylon, model specific (Safariland, Bianchi)
 Mass Production leather (Galco, Aker, Safariland, Bianchi)
 Made to order custom leather (Sparks, Alessi, etc)

Describe your belt:
 Department store
 Quality leather, but not by a holster manufacturer
 Customer/holster manufacturer belt

Characterize the firearm you most often carry concealed, in a fashion that would require a cover garment:
 Single column magazine semi-automatic
 Double column magazine semi-automatic
 Revolver

Do you work a profession that requires you be armed?
 Yes  No

Do you carry outside the scope of your employment?
 Yes  No

Characterize your socio-economic status:
 Single  Full time student/apprenticeship program
 Engaged  Lower class
 Married  Lower/Middle class
 Separated  Middle Class
 Widowed  Upper/Middle Class
 Domestic Partnership  Upper Class
 Retired

Characterize your typical workplace attire:
 Uniform (peace officer, military, service industry)
 Business formal
 Business casual
 No policy – liberal dress down (blue jeans, shorts)
 Not employed (retired, student, other)
 Other ____________

If you carry concealed at work in a manner that requires a cover garment, describe your cover garment:
 Suitjacket/Sportscoat
 Vest (casual clothing, i.e. knit, suit vest, etc.)
 Vest (advertised specifically as concealed carry clothing)
 Untucked shirt
 Other ____________

Characterize your typical leisure attire:
 Business formal
 Business casual
 Liberal dress down (blue jeans, shorts)
 Other ____________

If you carry concealed during personal activities in a manner that requires a cover garment, describe your cover garment:
 Suitjacket/Sportscoat
 Vest (casual clothing, i.e. knit, suit vest, etc.)
 Vest (advertised specifically as concealed carry clothing)
 Untucked shirt
 Other ____________

Have you ever purchased a vest cover garment?
 Yes  No

If Yes, how often/seldom do you use it? Briefly describe your impressions as to fit, function, and suitability for discretion. Generally, how satisfied are you with it, and what are you unsatisfied about?

 

[aguyindallas]

email sent...

 

[Indy7373]

Email sent.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Why don't you just post a picture of your vest and ask if we'd buy it for $___? Sorry, but I don't have time to write you a book, and just as you don't know us, we don't know you. You are not getting my e-mail address, so I cannot send you the book I am not going to write you.

My cover vest is a Sportsmans Guide "Guide Gear" brand denim vest -- the ones like a Levi's jacket with no sleeves. It's comfortable, affordable, it works, and it doesn't scream "Cover garment ... he's wearing a GUN!"

For more formal situations I wear a sport jacket.

 

[redneckrepairs]

I agree pictures of the garment would be usefull

 

[roscoe]

I simply wouldn't wear any vest other than a down vest, because they are such an odd garment. Other than down vests, they always scream 'CCW' to me. Or 'biker', if the back is covered with a big patch.

How about a casual jacket?

 

[Sinsaba]

I didn't mind spending the 3 min. filling out the questionaire. Since I have a throw away e-mail address (one I use that I don't ever look at) I don't mind sending it.

But then, that's just me

 

[shooter58]

I agree that a windbreaker type casual jacket would be a real boon with a couple of inside pockets. I would go for one in a heartbeat.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Hawkmoon, I am glad you found yourself a suitable garment. My needs for a professional office environment were not compatable with a jean vest, nor are the needs of the folks so far who I've been making these for.

I would not ask you to do anything you aren't comfortable with. And your point to just post a picture and ask how much doesn't answer my questions. I have an opportunity when contracting out to decide the quality, and how much design and assembly time I want to build into the piece. That of course affects price. Some folks are happy to pay more for higher quality, some are happy just to buy bargain. Its an issue we see tossed about here all the time - as in the arguements over Uncle Mike's nylon/Fobus vs. professional artist leather work.

I have no promotional quality pictures available, but I’ll bring home the wife’s digital camera and take some tomorrow evening and post them here.

I'm working on the pictures fellas. Tonight . . . after I get home from my REAL job.

 

[tellner]

Just sent it off to you.

I've been pretty happy with 5.11 Tactical's stuff - Vest, jeans jacket, sportscoat, trenchcoat designed for concealed carry. I'm also a great fan of the Scott eVest products ever since they added the velcro attachment points and pockets that are more CCW-friendly.

 

[Stickjockey]

Here ya go:

Describe your typical concealed carry habits:
Outside of work/less than 6hrs/day

Describe your commonly preferred mode of carry:
Belt holster, strong side, Outside waistband

List supporting gear worn on the belt only:
Reload

Characterize your last holster purchase. If your last purchase was uncharacteristic of your normal preferences, characterize your most commonly used piece:
Mass Production leather (Galco, Aker, Safariland, Bianchi)

Describe your belt:
Department store

Characterize the firearm you most often carry concealed, in a fashion that would require a cover garment:
Single column magazine semi-automatic

Do you work a profession that requires you be armed?
No

Do you carry outside the scope of your employment?
Yes

Characterize your socio-economic status:
Married, Lower/Middle class

Characterize your typical workplace attire:
Uniform (airline) or Business casual

If you carry concealed at work in a manner that requires a cover garment, describe your cover garment:
Can't carry at work

Characterize your typical leisure attire:
Business casual to Liberal dress down (blue jeans, shorts)

If you carry concealed during personal activities in a manner that requires a cover garment, describe your cover garment:
 Untucked shirt

Have you ever purchased a vest cover garment?
No

If Yes, how often/seldom do you use it? Briefly describe your impressions as to fit, function, and suitability for discretion. Generally, how satisfied are you with it, and what are you unsatisfied about?

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Hawkmoon, I am glad you found yourself a suitable garment. My needs for a professional office environment were not compatable with a jean vest, nor are the needs of the folks so far who I've been making these for.

I answered that.

Sport jacket. Around my part of the planet, vests went out of style about 30 years ago and have never come back. NOBODY around here would wear a vest in an office. Period.

 

[Gunfyter]

Email sent. Looking forward to the pictures

 

[Shawn Dodson]

I simply wouldn't wear any vest other than a down vest, because they are such an odd garment. Other than down vests, they always scream 'CCW' to me. Or 'biker', if the back is covered with a big patch.

How about a casual jacket?

Ditto! A lightweight jacket is my preferred concealment garment.

I see somebody in a vest and I think:
1) Fisherman?
2) Photographer?
3) Biker?
4) CCW?

If he/she ain't got the right props to match the image, CCW is pretty conspicuous. Might as well be wearing a big ol' geeky fanny pack.

Anyhow, I wish you luck!

 

[BullfrogKen]

Stickjockey,

I copied the text of your response and saved it to my thumb drive. You can edit and delete your answers if you like; it was not my intention to have personal information like economic status and carry habits posted for those who have no business knowing seeing it.

 

[bubbygator]

I have found this jacket from Duluth Trading to be very effective even without a specific "holster" built-in.

We know you like functional pockets so we made 13 of 'em, two of which are zippered and full-sized, hidden underneath the outside patch pockets. Eight are inside the jacket – four of those are huge and have button closures. Four smaller inside pockets are sized to fit business cards, credit cards, and driver's license.

I've been able to carry everything from my KelTec .380 to my Browning HP concealed in this jacket. My wife calls it my "magic jacket". I think something along that line marketed specifically to CCW people would be successful. Good Luck.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Moderator - Please change the title of the thread

Can I get the title of this thread changed to read:

I am considering going to market with a different Concealed Carry Vest design-survey


I've gotten a few responses requesting orders. I regrettably am not ready to take on new work. I'm at the mass production feasability and planning phase only. Let me meet with my sewing factory rep first and see if its an affordable and viable option before I can make this a reality, fellas.

I've got the digital camera, but I won't be able to upload pictures until tomorrow.

 

[roscoe]

I was going to add something about jackets - you may have already thought of this, but I have a Filson jacket that is so stiff that the gun in my pocket causes no 'sag'. If you make a jacket (or vest), you should think about some way to put a stiffener of leather or stiff canvas in parts to make the cloth stay hanging straight.

It is especially relevant to those of us who carry steel revolvers (like an 3" SP101, fer instance).

Just a thought.

 

[gbran]

I have the Tactical 5.11 vests. They are too heavy and it's not easy to draw my weapon quickly from them, thus, I rarely use them. I do use the 5.11 shirts.

 

[tellner]

They don't seem any heavier than comparable clothing - jackets, vests, trenchcoats. For me the draw is quick enough or unnecessary because of the pass-through pockets. But then, I'm used to carrying my life around like a snail and am willing to make a slight time tradeoff for the flexibility they afford. YMMV of course.

 

[Legionnaire]

Email sent. Bubbygator, I was looking at a Duluth Trading catalog just last night, thinking along the same lines as you. I wear a suit, or at least a coat and tie, every day. I have a 5.11 vest that I almost never wear. A lightweight twill sport coat, though, that could go with anything from jeans to khakis would be more appropriate to me, even in "off-duty" mode.

 

[Monkeyleg]

BullfrogKen, I'm on a Mac and too lazy to log on with my PC to answer your questions.

However, after reading some of the reponses, here's one opinion: if your vests should sell very well--which I hope they will--they'll also scream "concealed weapon," just like the ubiquitous fannypack.

So, if your initial design sells, come up with new ones. And ones that will blend in with the ocassion. 99% of the time, I can dress in such a way that concealment isn't a problem. But put me in a suit and tie, and I can't carry. The only option is to buy a suitcoat two sizes too big, and look like Luca Brazzi.

Good luck!

 

[3rdpig]

However, after reading some of the reponses, here's one opinion: if your vests should sell very well--which I hope they will--they'll also scream "concealed weapon," just like the ubiquitous fannypack.

I'd like to know just who you guys think vests and fanny packs "scream" to?

The average citizen who pulls into an intersection in front of an ambulance whose lights are flashing and siren on?

The person who's so busy herding their kids around that they don't even realize that anyone else is alive?

The people who walk around talking on their cell phone oblivous to the world around them?

The kids with grooving the tunes on their ipod while they play air guitar?

I just don't know where you find such an aware population, because the people who live around me are oblivious to their surroundings.

Also, with people carrying cell phones, PDA's and other gear on their belts who's to say what screams gun and what screams PDA?

 

[Monkeyleg]

Um, how about cops who know that concealed carry is illegal, and have learned how to spot someone who's obviously carrying?

Look, all I was trying to do was give BullfrogKen some free advice, the value of which is always worth the price.

If you want to beat up on me, 3rdpig, that's fine. Just please pick another day. I'm in a pretty bad mood right now. Nebraska and all.