I think I'm about 165 degrees into a 180 degree turn

[Ignition Override]

In Nashville alone there have been multiple Hundreds of cars broken into at hotels each year, all around the Vanderbilt University area.

This began a few years ago while we were there. At our Hampton Inn on West End Ave., three cars had windows smashed in during a Single Night.

Preferred targets for Unsecured guns are trucks--because “handgun guys” often drive a truck, according to the criminals.

 

[jstert]

most state hunting laws prohibit a loaded long gun in a motor vehicle under any circumstances.

https://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/LongGuns/LongGunsInVehicles.pdf

it’s worthwhile checking the handgunlaw.us for updates regularly. i carry an unloaded long gun (marlin papoose 22lr takedown rifle or turkish 410 folding, single shotgun) secured in a locked, nondescript gym bag in my car trunk if a handgun is disallowed. then it comes indoors with me at night. especially when driving through unknown places i gas up during daylight, and stay at or close to my night’s lodging for supper, more often than not eating an in-room picnic. steel chariot and gray matter are one’s best defensive tools when driving.

 

[Barmcd]

most state hunting laws prohibit a loaded long gun in a motor vehicle under any circumstances.

https://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/LongGuns/LongGunsInVehicles.pdf

it’s worthwhile checking the handgunlaw.us for updates regularly. i carry an unloaded long gun (marlin papoose 22lr takedown rifle or turkish 410 folding, single shotgun) secured in a locked, nondescript gym bag in my car trunk if a handgun is disallowed. then it comes indoors with me at night. especially when driving through unknown places i gas up during daylight, and stay at or close to my night’s lodging for supper, more often than not eating an in-room picnic. steel chariot and gray matter are one’s best defensive tools when driving.

Good advice. You could end up infamous on youtube!

 

[buck460XVR]

The phrase "A handgun is what you use to fight your way to a rifle" is an old one. It has been repeated on this forum more times than I can count. In a full blown military assault, of course, we all would rather have a Hi-Cap rifle and a trunk load of ammo with us in our vehicle. An in those types of scenarios where one would occasionally have the need to dispense with an 4 legged predator in open country, a rifle for a regular truck gun is a viable option too. But for the most part, a rifle is not as handy or as easily accessed as a handgun, and as has been stated, having it loaded and uncased in a vehicle, in many scenarios, is against the law. You do what you gotta do........

 

[bubbaturbo]

I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything. I'm not 100% convinced myself. I'm just spitballin'. Here's some of my thinking.

I've been carrying a handgun - not because of an occupational requirement - for almost 40 years. So have a lot of you.
I don't think I ever believed it was because I thought I might get into a gunfight but, at the same time, I did buy into "I might encounter something that needs to be shot" and "if you ever really need a gun, you'll need it more than anything else you ever needed in your life". And I don't see a contradiction there.

Mass shootings by someone with a rifle are heartbreaking but no longer unthinkable unfortunately.

So if I already think I should routinely arm myself and I know that mass shootings with rifles can and have occurred, why do I still draw the conclusion that the chances of an Israeli-like occurrence, i.e. lots of bad guys with rifles, are so miniscule as to be non-existent? The FBI admits they have no idea who has entered the country. And if such an event occurs, why am I so sure I will either be able to drive away or handle things with a pistol?
Why do I think a couple of guys shooting rifles at cars jammed up at a traffic light even have to be foreign terrorists? We've got plenty of American lunatics.
Why am I so sure that I'll know when things have "gotten worse"?
How many times have you read some version of, "You're responsible for yourself - no one is coming to help"?

I know car break-ins occur and guns are stolen from vehicles. My vehicles are locked and inside a locked garage at night which mitigates some of my concerns. I don't know the answers but I am questioning whether what I used to think still makes any sense.

(That all sounds doom and gloom doesn't it? I wonder if people from other countries reading stuff like this think we are insane.)

 

[Some_Mook]

... why do I still draw the conclusion that the chances of an Israeli-like occurrence, i.e. lots of bad guys with rifles, are so miniscule as to be non-existent? ...

Perhaps what you should really be considering is - are YOU - present in an area where a large scale terrorist attack would make the most sense to a terrorist or terrorist organization? Attacking some schmuck driving down a rural and isolated road isn't generally going to create the impact desired by terrorists.

If you are in a remote location, or away from large crowds or areas where an attack would create the most chaos, disruption and media coverage, then you really are in a miniscule to non-existent terrorist attack situation.

If you find yourself in a place or situation where a large scale attack would make sense to a terrorist group, then perhaps you should think about mitigating your exposure or preparedness to go into battle. Otherwise, Stay Calm and Carry On.

Random thefts are far more likely, and it would be the rare thief indeed who would want to draw attention to what they are doing at the time they are doing it.

 

[bubbaturbo]

Well, I am in the city where "going postal" originated and where somebody blew up a building a few years back. Nothing to be proud of, for sure.
On the other hand, I've never had a car or house break-in - knock on wood.
So, historically speaking, in my experience, I guess I should be more concerned about a mass shooting or a bombing than a car break-in.
Cause they sure can happen here.

 

[westernrover]

I doubt that on October 6th, any Israelis anticipated what was about to happen....

Actually, there was widespread alarm advising Israelis to carry their firearms on Yom Kippur, September 25th, because there was intelligence of a greatly increased risk of terrorist activity. Although the alert was specific to Yom Kippur, the attack occurred just 11 days later, perhaps even delayed by temporarily increased vigilance.

I am sure there is much hindsight at this point, but here is the UPI article from September: https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2023/09/21/police-urge-guns-yom-kippur/1561695324448/
Here is the Jerusalem Post article, also in September: https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/defense-news/article-759794

 

[westernrover]

While terrorist acts involving firearms are common place in places like Israel, they are nearly unheard of here.

You wouldn't know it if you paid attention to the media. Maybe the motivation isn't considered political here and so it doesn't meet the strict definition of terrorism. I think the most notable difference is we have tended to have a preponderance of lone perpetrators whereas there have been notable events recently in Europe and Israel with multiple perpetrators. While that is not unheard of here, most of the mass casualty events in recent times have been the result of a lone gunman.

 

[The Night Rider]

I still think that having a rifle in my truck would only really be useful in such a small number of circumstances that it just wouldn't be worth keeping a rifle in my truck all the time.

I also still think that there's a much higher likelihood of having your rifles stolen from your truck than needing it.

 

[KnightHawk]

The thing that concerns me is the southern border. Millions coming across and not being vetted. Among those there has been a few hundred known bad guys on the lists. But I’m not concerned as much about terrorist as the vast majority of young men from all points of the globe.
The terrorist worth there salt will be coming across with the 1.5 million known got a ways. Why would they come across at a checkpoint if they are on a list.
But the very fact that there is such a large quantity of single men coming across is going to be a growing problem, besides the increased lawlessness being condoned in certain areas.
A higher degree of individual threats are out there. I do carry in my truck a rifle but it comes out when back home.
I live in a rural area and have different concerns than most. I don’t have the rifle with on town trips but do carry a pistol.

 

[JTHunter]

I don't know if I'll start putting a rifle in my vehicle or not. Theft is a real concern although I'm retired and my circumstances are probably different from many. I am very seldom out at night, for example. Anyhow, just some of my thoughts. Thanks for everybody else's thoughts too.

As a fellow retiree, we are in similar circumstances. The chance of theft from a vehicle of a long gun is, at this time, is too great.
And, if not theft, police "interference" and many state laws prohibit such "open carry" in a vehicle. A"good" example would be IL-ANNOY and its ban on, not only OC but a loaded firearm (unless you have a concealed permit).
However, should we ever get to the Second American Revolution or the SHTF scenario happens and laws break down (more than they already are), then it won't really matter what you have in your truck.
Of course, roving gangs of hoodlums may try to stop and steal your guns and vehicle, but that's another problem.

 

[Some_Mook]

Well, I am in the city where "going postal" originated and where somebody blew up a building a few years back. Nothing to be proud of, for sure.
On the other hand, I've never had a car or house break-in - knock on wood.
So, historically speaking, in my experience, I guess I should be more concerned about a mass shooting or a bombing than a car break-in.
Cause they sure can happen here.

Statistically you should be more concerned with a petty theft. You haven't had one yet, which is good, you may never have one at all. Or they just haven't gotten around to you yet. In Your original post you posited about a mass terrorist invasion, and that if faced with such a situation a rifle might be worth having at that time. Sure it would be great to have a rifle and plenty of ammo readily available if something like that happens where you live. All the while hoping that everyone good around you is equally prepared for the fight.

The vast majority of mass shootings in the US are perpetrated with handguns, and the majority of those that occur out in the open streets are gang related. A handgun or a rifle will not be of much use in response to a bombing. Unless you frequent places with gang / drug related activity, the odds of you being caught in a gunfight are really quite small.

Sure, you could be at some big outdoor venue or in a movie theater or a Mall Court when some lunatic attacks. Odds are such an event will happen in a place or venue where firearms are prohibited all together. Will you be carrying in that situation or avoid going to such places all together?

Heck, nobody ever thought about terrorists hijacking planes in the US and then flying them into buildings - until it happened. Anything can happen. The sun will explode one day. It could have exploded 7 minutes ago but we won't know until 8 minutes after it happens...

 

[bubbaturbo]

I can't do any more about "petty theft" than I am now but I agree that statistics indicate I am more likely to be a victim of that, than to be involved in a gunfight.
I'm not arguing that.
I'm also not talking about mass shootings with handguns.
I'm not talking about gang related shootings.
I'm not talking about a mass terrorist invasion across the border.

I am talking about people who have already crossed the border undetected with bad intentions. The FBI admitted to Congress that they searching for some people who came across the border and that they don't know where they are. To me, that has HINT written all over it. I am thinking, what if they entered with the purpose of getting together later for a mass shooting. Why that particular crime? Why not?
If that were to happen and they were just strolling down a city street shooting RIFLES, as I saw in some videos of Israel (which is what got me started on this track), I think I'd like to have a rifle too - just in case I'm not able to drive away. And I need to do my best to keep that rifle from being stolen. I get it.
I'm not saying it's gonna happen and it'll be OKC. I'm saying maybe things are worse than we think they are and that some of our assumptions might not be valid any more.
One thing after another has happened in the last 30 years that were unthinkable prior to the occurrence. I'm sure some more unthinkable things will happen and no one can prepare for them all. Some preparation for the above hypothetical however, seems prudent. To me at least. I know not everybody agrees.

 

[The Night Rider]

I can't do any more about "petty theft" than I am now but I agree that statistics indicate I am more likely to be a victim of that, than to be involved in a gunfight.
I'm not arguing that.
I'm also not talking about mass shootings with handguns.
I'm not talking about gang related shootings.
I'm not talking about a mass terrorist invasion across the border.

I am talking about people who have already crossed the border undetected with bad intentions. The FBI admitted to Congress that they searching for some people who came across the border and that they don't know where they are. To me, that has HINT written all over it. I am thinking, what if they entered with the purpose of getting together later for a mass shooting. Why that particular crime? Why not?
If that were to happen and they were just strolling down a city street shooting RIFLES, as I saw in some videos of Israel (which is what got me started on this track), I think I'd like to have a rifle too - just in case I'm not able to drive away. And I need to do my best to keep that rifle from being stolen. I get it.
I'm not saying it's gonna happen and it'll be OKC. I'm saying maybe things are worse than we think they are and that some of our assumptions might not be valid any more.
One thing after another has happened in the last 30 years that were unthinkable prior to the occurrence. I'm sure some more unthinkable things will happen and no one can prepare for them all. Some preparation for the above hypothetical however, seems prudent. To me at least. I know not everybody agrees.

Knock yourself out

 

[.308 Norma]

The sun will explode one day. It could have exploded 7 minutes ago but we won't know until 8 minutes after it happens...

 

[bubbaturbo]

Knock yourself out

OK

 

[westernrover]

You're not off-base. There are good reasons not to keep a long gun or any gun permanently stowed in a vehicle. I'm not saying that's its a bad practice, but that there are legitimate things to consider in disfavor of it. I won't rehash them all because they've been made known. Whether a person decides to keep a long gun in their vehicle or only to keep their handgun concealed on their person, what seems advisable to me is to get some training on firearm/vehicle dynamics.

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It doesn't seem like there is much dispute that keeping secured in the house a rifle or carbine that's effective in combat is a good idea even if the contingency demanding it is a remote probability. There are few drawbacks. The proposal in this thread's OP is about the vehicle. Maybe the discussion took off on risk-assessment sidetracks, but if instead of focusing on which boogey-man is coming or where he's coming from, we consider where we'll be in the event of his coming, for a lot of Americans, it's either the house, the vehicle, or their place of work.

After the house, the vehicle is the thing we're likely to have the most control over. It's also a place where violent conflict has a considerable probability of happening -- whether it's due to road rage, car-jacking, or just that vehicles frequent transitional spaces. People have various lifestyles with respect to their vehicles. A person who has a short commute or infrequently uses their vehicle might decide leaving a firearm abandoned in their vehicle most of the time isn't a good idea. A person who spends more time in their vehicle, for whom the vehicle is their place of work, and who has assessed greater risk might rationally decide to maintain a firearm in the vehicle in addition to their carry gun. Whether they do that or not, it's advisable they train and practice the tactics that are relevant to fighting in and around vehicles. They won't necessarily be better off just because they have another gun.

Long guns in the workplace or in your gym bag are a topic that has come up before. In a similar fashion to this thread, there are people who balk at the risk assessment that concludes in the necessity of such a thing. Personally, I'm grateful whenever the law recognizes our liberty to declare, "you be the judge."

I will say, that besides training around vehicles and considering keeping a long gun in the vehicle, if anyone is concerned with the kinds of risks presented in the OP, they should also consider body armor. If a person already carries concealed everyday, I would advise adding body armor to their vehicle's contents before adding a long gun. It certainly has a valid application in a terrorist-attack scenario and it has fewer drawbacks to being abandoned in the car.

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We are answering questions from You, the viewer. One of them was "Should private citizens own body armor?" Massad Ayoob lists the pros and cons of conceale...

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[Simple Shooter]

I recall Clint Smith being asked about truck guns. His response was you are better off leaving the gun where it is and use the gas pedal to drive away. There’s wisdom in that.

 

[230RN]

When younger I used to take every opportunity to wander around the Pawnee National Grasslands using a 6" .357 to pop at irregular targets (usually rocks) at indeterminate ranges.

I got pretty good at what I call "Kentucky Elevationage," that is, using my red-painted front sight at various heights above the rear sight. Lots of practice at correlating this estimated "elevationage" to estimated target distance and scared the hell out of many rocks and cow pies. Not a rifle, but at least I could carry the .357 and camera and canteen around conveniently,

I would definitely be under-gunned if caught in one of the situations presented above, but I could probably make several of them duck and pee their gandurah (Arabic: قندورة ), before the other 10% of Coloradans with CCWs joined in the fun or I got hit.

However, until the above situations become likely and I carry that ,357 around again, I will make do with my widdle teeny-weeny J-Frame with a laser sight. At least the laser beam flashing around might engender some duckage and other avoidance techniques on the part of the miscreant(s).

Hiding long guns in my widdle teeny-weeny station wagon is impossible but I used to smuggle rifles to the car in a curtain rod box.

Terry, 230RN

 

[MacAR]

Reading this makes me very thankful that I live where I do. In my little piece of paradise, a rifle or shotgun in the back window of a vehicle is not uncommon. As a matter of fact, my 94 F150 has a Henry 22 magnum hanging in the back glass as we speak. My 2012 F250 is an extended cab, so back window racks really don't work; instead, I have a leather saddle scabbard secured to the rear of the passenger seat. Any short gun will fit and ride comfortably there, and it's out of the way.

Up until a few years ago, I left my keys in all my vehicles, my wallet on the dash, and and never locked the house or the shop. But times have changed, the crackheads are a lot bolder than they used to be, and things just aren't the same. I now lock my doors, vehicles, and bring both my wallet and guns in the house at night.

Mac

 

[Navy87Guy]

I look at it in terms of probabilities. Probability I will need a rifle in my car? Pretty darn low (but not zero). Probability my car will be broken into? Average (much greater than zero).

Those assessments change depending on your own circumstances (including location). I am more worried about having a long gun available at home than I am when I’m in my car.

So I’ll continue to carry a pistol everywhere I can (legally). If I’m wrong in my assessments, then I guess I’ll pay the price.

 

[bubbaturbo]

I look at it in terms of probabilities. Probability I will need a rifle in my car? Pretty darn low (but not zero). Probability my car will be broken into? Average (much greater than zero).

Those assessments change depending on your own circumstances (including location). I am more worried about having a long gun available at home than I am when I’m in my car.

So I’ll continue to carry a pistol everywhere I can (legally). If I’m wrong in my assessments, then I guess I’ll pay the price.

I know what you're saying. But I am wondering if I have the probabilities backwards. It's not the chances but the stakes.
Anyhow, this thread is probably a dead horse.

 

[Riomouse911]

Here are a couple of things that might not have been mentioned.

First: if you do keep a rifle in your vehicle ( let’s say an AR variant), and you are in the Lowes parking lot when some loser blows his cork and decides to start shooting up the cars and people at the shopping center.

As soon as you pull your rifle out to stop the mayhem, what have you done to visibly identify yourself as a good guy?

Put on body armor, a tac vest or plate carrier? Now YOU are the “man with a gun actively shooting” in the eyes of the people calling 911 describing the scene to dispatch, to the responding LEO’s rolling in and seeing you with an AR, and even to other ccw people around who may or may not have one iota of training.

It is sooooo easy to sit back in the comfort of our living rooms and opine or second-third-fourth guess reactions of others who are rolling into chaotic scenes, bodies full of adrenaline and stress. I’ve done it myself, I bet we all have. But putting oneself into a situation where 99 out of 100 people scrambling around are going to assume you are part of the evil unfolding before them, is easily a recipe for disaster.

If it is you or them, floor it.

I carried an AR-15 or Mini-14 rifle in my work vehicles for decades, both marked and unmarked. Next to my rifle rack in my unmarked I had my helmet and tac vest with POLICE in big letters on the front and back, a cloth badge sewn on it, etc. Even with that lid, vest, and strobes and a siren in my unmarked vehicle, without an easily identifiable uniform on I still felt that i could be easily mistaken for a criminal running around an active shooting scene.

I am certainly not saying to run out and buy police, sheriff or FBI patches at the swap meet, sew them on a vest and falsely ID yourself even with the best of intentions. But being mistaken for a crook and killed is a huuuge thing to have in the front of your mind if you think about running around to the trunk or jump behind the seat and pull out a rifle in a dynamic defensive situation.

Second: As for vehicle security, just stashing a rifle in the car is rolling the dice that some lucky crook wont walk off with your AR. The vehicles I had were equipped with hard-mounted, electrically operated racks that required a crook to use tools to open or remove. (Keys would open them if the battery died.) Even still, the racks were still defeatable with time and effort. Luckily, in the 16-odd years I spent at my last agency, none of the 60-odd unmarked vehicles the office fielded (from 4x4 pickups to Toyota Priuses) lost a rifle in a burglary. Hopefully that good fortune continues for them indefinitely.

Just food for thought. YMMV.,

Stay safe.

 

[jmr40]

As a general rule I don't see the reward justifying the risk. But there are times when I'd keep a long gun in a vehicle. Several years ago I drove from GA to TX to visit relatives. There was a high profile trial underway with a verdict expected soon and concerns over rioting afterward. At the time I had one of the Ruger 10/22 takedown rifles and I carried it along with a handful of 25 round magazines.

The rifle in the case was easy to keep out of sight and as usual my wife and I both had handguns. It turned out that I didn't need it but I don't regret taking it