I think I'm about 165 degrees into a 180 degree turn

[d2wing]

Last summer in Fargo North Dakota a Terrorist that was here legally, and legally owned guns went on a rampage and killed 2 policemen that responded to an accident and a civilian. He was armed with an AR. Another policeman arrived on the scene and engaged him with a 9MM handgun. A shot from the cop disabled the AR during the exchange. The cop was able to approach while the terrorist was rearming himself. The good guy ended up shooting the bad guy at close range. The terrorist had several weapons and ammunition, and homemade bombs. The terrorist was from the Middle east and had been interviewed by the FBI before.

 

[The Night Rider]

I know what you're saying. But I am wondering if I have the probabilities backwards. It's not the chances but the stakes.
Anyhow, this thread is probably a dead horse.

If you want to carry a rifle in your truck or your car go right ahead.

just don't come back here b******g when it gets stolen

 

[The Night Rider]

Last summer in Fargo North Dakota a Terrorist that was here legally, and legally owned guns went on a rampage and killed 2 policemen that responded to an accident and a civilian. He was armed with an AR. Another policeman arrived on the scene and engaged him with a 9MM handgun. A shot from the cop disabled the AR during the exchange. The cop was able to approach while the terrorist was rearming himself. The good guy ended up shooting the bad guy at close range. The terrorist had several weapons and ammunition, and homemade bombs. The terrorist was from the Middle east and had been interviewed by the FBI before.

How does that apply to what we're discussing?

 

[bubbaturbo]

If you want to carry a rifle in your truck or your car go right ahead.

just don't come back here b******g when it gets stolen

I don't need your permission for anything, Skippy. And I'll post what and when I want to.
Whether you like it or not.

 

[Kleanbore]

I was a believer in "shooting at somebody 50 yards away isn't self defense" and "just drive away".

What changed?

Last thing you ever want to do is bring a handgun to a rifle fight.

The last thing you want to do is bring anything, including yourself, to a gunfight, unless you are a sworn officer.

... this is more of a "get me the heck out of here" type thing I'm my mind.

There you go.

Having the gun stolen from the vehicle would be far more likely (in the U.S.) than having to confront a terrorist.

Far, far, far more likely--as in likely vs most unlikely.

...for the most part, a rifle is not as handy or as easily accessed as a handgun, and as has been stated, having it loaded and uncased in a vehicle, in many scenarios, is against the law. You do what you gotta do.......

You got it.

I recall Clint Smith being asked about truck guns. His response was you are better off leaving the gun where it is and use the gas pedal to drive away. There’s wisdom in that.

There is indeed.

After the house, the vehicle is the thing we're likely to have the most control over. It's also a place where violent conflict has a considerable probability of happening -- whether it's due to road rage, car-jacking, or just that vehicles frequent transitional spaces.

Yes, and while a person is within the vehicle, he would in many jurisdictions, have the benefit of a legal assumption that he may use deadly force if necessary, to prevent unlawful entry. But a long arm is hardly an ideal defensive weapn for someone in an automobile.

I'll post what and when I want to.

Careful--we do have rules here.

On that note, it is conceivable that posts that mght indicate that a poster would consider going to a confrontation armed could go to mens rea--state of mind--and seriously weaken a legal defense of self defense. We have a sticky on that.

 

[Jeff White]

This used to come up after every an active shooter hit the news. I thought the idea was killed in those earlier threads. Since everyone from Tier One military units to the average private citizen has limited resources and bases their preparations on the threat faced I have to ask what information you have that Hamas or any other terrorist group is going to surge 2500 terrorists across a fairly wide swath of the US killing, raping and taking hostages? Please fill us in.

Let's be realistic here, to be prepared to respond to an attack like that you need to be kitted out in your body armor, helmet, and about 400 rounds of ammunition. You also have to be in good enough physical shape to fire and maneuver with about 70 pounds of gear. You have to live this every day. The chances of running back to your truck and getting your rifle before you are cut down or taken hostage are pretty low. It's the same as if you ran out of the mall to get your rifle out of the truck in an active shooter situation. You're risking being shot by responding authorities.

All you will accomplish with your truck gun and ammunition is to arm the criminal element where you live if your truck is broken into.

 

[DustyGmt]

What changed?The last thing you want to do is bring anything, including yourself, to a gunfight, unless you are a sworn officer.
There you go.

Far, far, far more likely--as in likely vs most unlikely.You got it.

There is indeed.
Yes, and while a person is within the vehicle, he would in many jurisdictions, have the benefit of a legal assumption that he may use deadly force if necessary, to prevent unlawful entry. But a long arm is hardly an ideal defensive weapn for someone in an automobile.
Careful--we do have rules here.

On that note, it is conceivable that posts that mght indicate that a poster would consider going to a confrontation armed could go to mens rea--state of mind--and seriously weaken a legal defense of self defense. We have a sticky on that.

Well, I disagree with you, more so on your remark to me. It's a personal choice to bring whatever they want to whoever they want as long as it's in the defense of your life or another. I'm pretty sure that's universal. You don't need to be a sworn officer to have clanky ones and a strong sense of civic duty.... ordinary citizens do most of the protecting and serving in this country. Not a slight to law enforcement, but there's way more of us.

 

[Jeff White]

You don't need to be a sworn officer to have clanky ones and a strong sense of civic duty....

No you don't, but you have to smart enough to understand the legal ramifications and physical risk involved when taking such taking such action.

 

[DustyGmt]

No you don't, but you have to smart enough to understand the legal ramifications and physical risk involved when taking such taking such action.

So you would advise that anybody in a position to potentially immediately stop a threat to others is to tuck tail and run, or wait? So if I am trained in CPR and/or other medical emergencies and I see somebody having a heart attack or choking event would be to stand down and wait for the EMT's to arrive, who could be 10 mins away.

Not trying to be flip, just trying to understand your perspective. I'm not smart enough because I'm not a "sworn officer" or "trained EMT" and shouldn't try to effect the outcome in an emergency? I would say anybody who would do this accepts the stakes, ordinary citizen or LE.

 

[DustyGmt]

Maybe I responded too quickly and didn't think through the responses, it's a reflex to become defensive but maybe all that was pointed out was that potentially life ending/altering consequences come from an endeavor to save others, from a personal liability standpoint.

 

[Gordon]

I had a truck gun, a bubba-ed British jungle carbine locked into my tool box utility truck bed unloaded ,the loaded magazines in another drawer . fully compliant with Calif. law from 1990s to 2017 . I was in bad hi crime edge of town truck parks working with big cash sums and remote agricultural and industrial sites mostly and not too much those 10 round .303 British 150 grain bullets couldn't handle from the fast action bolt and short cone braked barrel . The big rear peep drilled out and front blade painted brite yellow. Wasn't the end of the world if someone cut in and stole it but never left my invaluable tools exposed with noone around . So truck gun is realistic . Any number of ways to do it without the AR/assault rifle image. Lock them up heavy duty and out of sight . If you need something while driving a truck you should have a CCW or state law that allows that , and a short length pistol to get to the rifle outside the cab.

 

[Kleanbore]

Well, I disagree with you, more so on your remark to me. It's a personal choice to bring whatever they want to whoever they want as long as it's in the defense of your life or another.

It is a personal choice, up until they put the cuffs on you.

A sworn officer has the duty to enforce the law, which may require taking someone into custody. That means that he may need to approach the suspect. It therefore means that he would not be denied the legal defeense of self defense should self defense be necessary.

A private citizen does not have that duty. If he purposely advances toward a confrontation, or knowingly goes to a gunfight, he will most likely not meet the requirements of lawful self defense.

 

[Jeff White]

So you would advise that anybody in a position to potentially immediately stop a threat to others is to tuck tail and wait.

I advise anyone in the vicinity of an active shooter to depart the area if possible and ONLY engage the shooter if there is no other option. Being killed by first responders who don't have any idea who is who when they arrive on the scene is a very real threat. Just a few threads down on this page there is a thread about an Israeli citizen who was killed by responding soldiers after he killed two Hamas terrorists. Then there is the problem of you shooting the wrong person. How will you know for sure the person you are going to shoot is the bad guy and not an off duty police officer or another armed citizen with the same idea you have?

There are all kinds of legal ramifications both criminal and civil. The days where our system was friendly towards non-sworn citizens taking action to stop a crime in progress are long past.

So if I am trained in CPR and I see somebody having a heart attack or choking event would be to stand down and wait dor the EMT's to arrive, who could be 10 mins away.

That's not nearly the same ting and I think you know that.

 

[d2wing]

How does that apply to what we're discussing?

First, that it can happen anytime anywhere. Who would have thought Fargo, N.D., Second that a pistol is not useless against a rifle.

 

[Tilos]

I also hope to never live in that type of environment, and it can be said many of those murdered on Oct. 7th also hoped that, however, proximity to real terrorists and slavering bloodthirsty savages certainly should raise awareness. One of the things I would be doing, if an Israeli citizen, would be working tirelessly to remove every person from office who voted to strip the citizens of their lawfully owned private arms, and to expand civilian ownership to resemble a Constitutional Carry state in the US.
Having said all that, a rifle in a vehicle would be slow and cumbersome to get to, unless you have it roof mounted over your head. If you have to bail RIGHT NOW, the trunk gun will probably be left behind for the bad guys to play with. Other workable options would be the FoldAR system with a braced rifle, or the Sub2000 folding pistol caliber carbine in bail out bags discreetly carried in the passenger section of the vehicle, perhaps disguised as something nobody would want to steal, like portable toilet cleaning systems.
Heck, I'd be intrigued by a 10mm Hi-Pint, to be honest, betting 10mm will get a nice big boost from the longer barrel, but still unwieldy in deployment.
Food for thought.

Yeh, I remember one of the last Israeli "wars/fluff-ups" where EVERY Israeli in news vids had an AR-15 slung around their neck.
Sadly, their gun rights have been stripped away since then by new restrictive gun laws, leaving them helpless.
jmo,
.

 

[herrwalther]

I advise anyone in the vicinity of an active shooter to depart the area if possible and ONLY engage the shooter if there is no other option. Being killed by first responders who don't have any idea who is who when they arrive on the scene is a very real threat. Just a few threads down on this page there is a thread about an Israeli citizen who was killed by responding soldiers after he killed two Hamas terrorists. Then there is the problem of you shooting the wrong person. How will you know for sure the person you are going to shoot is the bad guy and not an off duty police officer or another armed citizen with the same idea you have?

A similar issue happened in Alabama, very close to me, in a mall I frequented often. An active shooter was in the mall and a concealed carrier drew his firearm to find the shooter. Was shot and killed by responding police. The family has filed lawsuit with the city and Mall company. There has been little update I could find as to how they have gone about proving he was not the active shooter targeting mall patrons. This story has all but disappeared locally.

Lawsuit IDs Hoover officer who shot EJ Bradford

While details of the shooting have been widely discussed, amendments to the lawsuit this year added one key piece of information that had been kept from the public - the name of the police officer who shot Bradford.

www.al.com

 

[The Night Rider]

First, that it can happen anytime anywhere. Who would have thought Fargo, N.D., Second that a pistol is not useless against a rifle.

Truth

 

[DustyGmt]

I advise anyone in the vicinity of an active shooter to depart the area if possible and ONLY engage the shooter if there is no other option. Being killed by first responders who don't have any idea who is who when they arrive on the scene is a very real threat. Just a few threads down on this page there is a thread about an Israeli citizen who was killed by responding soldiers after he killed two Hamas terrorists. Then there is the problem of you shooting the wrong person. How will you know for sure the person you are going to shoot is the bad guy and not an off duty police officer or another armed citizen with the same idea you have?

There are all kinds of legal ramifications both criminal and civil. The days where our system was friendly towards non-sworn citizens taking action to stop a crime in progress are long past.
That's not nearly the same ting and I think you know that.

There's some wisdom in the mods replies, I get what you're saying. But really all I said was "don't bring a handgun to a rifle fight". Kind of like, idk, don't bring a six shooter to a machine gun fight. Basically have superior firepower and or skills/experience and tip the scales in your favor any way you can. I think you probably know that.

 

[nanook12]

A breakdown rifle will work in a vehicle. I use one in a plane
BLR in 308, stock mags + 2 ten round. In the plane it stays in the case.
You could leave it assembled in the truck. If you have to take it with you, it looks like a suitcase…

 

[armoredman]

Once, long ago, I decided to see how it would be to actually CARRY a long gun in a discreet case. I took a CzechpointUSA vz-58, and carried it folded in a UTG Covert Rifle Case while me and the now ex-wife went on some errands. I had a few people look slightly sideways, but most of them assumed it was something innocuous. What I did find out with that experiment is that it was a HUGE pain in the tush. Just an experiment. Since it was fully assembled, just stock folded, it would have been easy to get IN to action, but the enormous ache in the derriere said, nah, not doing that again.
As for "2500 Hamas terrorist flooding terrorists across American raping and killing", well all I can offer is this news story from today. Does it mean I need to wear my plate carrier all day with a slung AR? Well, if we DO get to that point I probably won't be posting on the internet much.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fb...ll-time-high-oct-7-blinking-lights-everywhere

 

[DustyGmt]

A breakdown rifle will work in a vehicle. I use one in a plane
BLR in 308, stock mags + 2 ten round. In the plane it stays in the case.
You could leave it assembled in the truck. If you have to take it with you, it looks like a suitcase…View attachment 1183023

A small part of my interest in guns comes from when I was a young kid watching TV and you would see the lone operator briskly ascending a stairwell with a briefcase, gaining access to the roof and opening the case to show a rifle broken down into 4 or 5 main components. I Tthouggt that was some high level stuff right there, lol.

I think there must be at least 15 movies going all the way back to the 70's with that scenario. Kind of cool how we've reached the point where an average Joe with $500 can get that nowadays. I'm guessing 20+ years ago that would be some full custom work and not off the rack production. I think a 10/22 takedown would be a cool pack out rifle that could go everywhere with you in a protective case that could be discreet, like a computer bag. For an actual centerfire rifle cartridge for defense though I would probably forego the breakdown/twist together type guns and opt for a smaller SBR or AR pistol with the Law tactical. A 7.5" .300BO with the law tac folder can apparently fit handily into a laptop bag or jansport.


Not a recommendation that everybody go armed with a rifle, just talking options. I sought opinions in a thread of similar topic a while back about how to conceal or travel discreetly with a compact rifle and got absolutely lambasted with ridicule. I don't know why it's such a problematic issue to contemplate.

 

[Scrapiron45]

I've kept a "truck gun" most of my adult life and can't hardly imagine not having one, however I should admit I come from a farm and construction background where the occasional rabid coon or careless coyote presents an opportunity to test my skills. The possibility of needing the rifle for self-defense against multiple bad guys wishing me harm is probably something I should seriously consider in this day and time. The old "you don't need it till you need it" thing.
I keep a pawn shop ar handcuffed to the seat leg in the back floorboard "cleverly" concealed under my cow manure laden coveralls, a few empty feed sacks and a pair of muck boots all the time. Twenty-four seven.
Before I typed this, just out of curiosity I timed myself from the drivers seat to unlock the rifle and load up was about 18-20 seconds. I can probably do better.
The addition of a 2 moa green dot on my glock 19 has stretched my comfort range out to 75-80 yards and though I haven't shot any groundhogs at that range yet, it might have potential to replace the rifle for some of the under hundred yard shots as I get better with it.

 

[old lady new shooter]

While terrorist acts involving firearms are common place in places like Israel, they are nearly unheard of here.

San Bernardino
the gay nightclub in Florida
the kosher grocery store in New Jersey

 

[old lady new shooter]

I am concerned about who and what has been walking in across our borders and in my mind I have extrapolated the Israeli incidents to my neck of the woods.

^^^^^

 

[old lady new shooter]

I grew up in rural southern Iowa and we sometimes had a rifle in the farm pickup and now living in northern Colorado I have given thought to keeping a weapon in my truck (2018 Ford F150 King Ranch) but last spring my wife wanted to stay in the Gaylord Resort near the Denver Airport for a long weekend getaway so we did. Despite my truck being parked in the secure lot and directly in front of a security camera it was broken into sometime between Friday night and Saturday morning. Hotel security didn't know it until I reported it to them even though the drivers door was left open about a foot. The vermin emptied the glove box and console well and left the contents scattered around the inside of the cab. Fortunately I did not have any weapons with us in the vehicle. They forced the door handle, apparently Ford doesn't make the electric door locks very secure because there was no other damage. It broke the inner parts of the door handle lock assembly which totaled up to around $1500 dollars which the Gaylord paid for, but that experience made me realize that a locked vehicle is really not all that secure with today's modern auto theft rings. I usually carry a pistol on my person when traveling but I don't think I will ever leave one in a vehicle again.

I never leave a gun in my car. When I have to go to the post office my carry gun stays home in the safe.