In Regards to Olympic Arms

[Nugilum]

^^ CoRoMo's 4000th post!!

 

[CaptainSKA]

And an exceedingly useful one. Someone who finally understands the chart's purpose - information.

 

[shadowalker]

The chart is a great resource though it is most useful for people that understand what the features mean and why they are desirable.

It makes it very easy to see how a particular AR manufacturer stacks up against other ones.

 

[atlanticfire]

I didn’t say that Oly was a HIGH quality firearm. I was defending it again accusations of being a paperweight, as some seam to have suggested. I think the whole mil-spec thing is bull ---. A tool used to promote sales and marketing to civilians. There a plenty of good ARs and just because there not mill spec I don’t see lesser of them. Personal I don’t see anything in colts. I’ve had them; I shot them . . . not impressed. I just think people get blind by the BS behind mill spec. . . . and that old meaningless chart.

 

[atlanticfire]

It makes it very easy to see how a particular AR manufacturer stacks up against other ones.

Every once and a while manufactures do make changes to things, nothing stays thr same for ever. Some things improve some don't. When was the last revision of the coveted chart?
Azizza, and looking at your past threads I can see you have a long history of bashing people for owning Oly and Bushmster directly too them too huh. Thats not very nice. Maybe not everyone can afford high end ARs.

 

[HOLY DIVER]

i'm currently Olympic free i had a 20inch model that i had done some work on......once i learned more,built more AR'S i saw first hand the diff between quality parts and so so parts
i sold my olympic,the bolt carrier is not chrome lined first off,the gas key staking is sub-par finish is kinda shaky.....and the kicker:the freaking gas tube was crooked it had noticeable bend to the left,with all my complaints it was/is the most accurate AR i've ever shot.....OLYMPIC CAN MAKE A GREAT BARREL NO DOUT! with that said i sold the oyl to build a better upper. White Oak Arament barrel,BRAVO COMPANY everything else,got the barrel in today.can't wait to get it together and see how it groups

 

[Tirod]

When are any of you mall Nazis ever gonna need a mill spec M4 anyway? What qualifies you? Are you a super turbo nerd range monkey rolling around in the tall grass pretending your G.I Joe?

New sig line?

 

[Glocktogo]

Every once and a while manufactures do make changes to things, nothing stays thr same for ever. Some things improve some don't. When was the last revision of the coveted chart?

The Chart is continually updated based on listed maufacturers changing production specs. That's what the 6 digit codes are. If you understood how the chart works or what it's for, you'd understand that.

The Chart is merely a tool. It's the tools who use it incorrectly or wish to deny it's fact based information that cause all the fuss.

 

[kwelz]

Azizza, and looking at your past threads I can see you have a long history of bashing people for owning Oly and Bushmster directly too them too huh. Thats not very nice. Maybe not everyone can afford high end ARs.

Actually if you read the threads you would see I don't bash the people but yes I tell them that the guns are not as high quality as others. Don't try to pretend that a DPMS or Oly or BM is going to be as good as a BCM, Colt, LMT, etc. "Good enough" isn't.

Of course if Quality ARs did cost significantly more than a cheap AR then you might have a point. This however isn't the case. Unless you are talking bottom of the barrel, the price is about the same. In some cases the High quality ARs are not as much as the second rate companies. I just built a BCM Middy for about 825-850 before adding extras. I could have even gone cheaper on some parts but didn't. A DPMS AP4 is going to run at least that much. A RRA or BM is going to be more. And an Oly would be about the same.

It is like being able to buy a Pinto and an Acura for the same price. Both will probably get you from Point A to point B. However one will do it for a lot longer and a lot more reliably.

 

[Expertowgunner]

I wanted to put my 2 cents in as well and tell you straight up that i hate olympic arms and i will tell you why. I did a trade about 4 months ago for a kb3 sumthin sumthin (nicknamed the alphabet gun for its long coded name) uber tacticool ninja death ray m4rgery that i didnt even want because the finish looked cheap compared to my bushmaster and rock river but i got a great deal on it. This gun was literally brand new and i took it home did a proper wipe down and decided to take this gun to the range. first thing i did was bring my magpul pmags and loaded them up and decided to lock and load but the damn mag would even fit into the mag well. i scratched my head and pulled out a couple colt 30 rounders that i had left and loaded those up instead. keep in mind this is the most expensive model they make thats a standard m4 clone and i couldnt keep it from doing 2 inch groups with hornady tap 62 grain bullets. I was so P#$#@@ off about the overall experience i just emptied the remainder of the rounds into the target and it only jammed 4 out of 60 rounds that i shot. no way in hell would i pay the msrp on that turd deluxe thats a deathtrap for anybody that wants a hd or shtf gun and honestly most people that buy m4 copies are intending to buy it for that purpose and for the rare few of us that actually care about accuracy or buying for investment. ive shot a 3 dpms and honestly while i think they are not overall as nice as my bushie or rra i think its a acceptable entry gun as they all worked flawless and were decently accurate.

 

[cyclopsshooter]

Despite Azzizas constructive critisizm I still believe Olys to be a fine rifle-

if my gas keys were improperly staked the rifles would not be as reliable as they are-

and yes, ARs can be found at cheaper prices by some of you anal retentive cheapskates-

i am a small business, i am here in my town to serve and help my neighbors, i am here to get to know them and spend time with them-

I can not buy in bulk like the big box stores so my firearms are a bit more expensive

sure- spend your money with the big corporate chain store and see what happens to your local tax base...

OH- and I have never had a problem fitting any kind of mag into my Olys- p-mags are my preference-

 

[WarMachine]

Oh geezh the useless old chart arrives. . . .

Every once and a while manufactures do make changes to things, nothing stays thr same for ever. Some things improve some don't. When was the last revision of the coveted chart?

You, and others like yourself need to read through the thread by rob_s on m4carbine.net

Trying to explain the chart's purpose (which should be self-evident if you actually read the accompanying text) has grown tiresome. You can also view the revisions there on the thread the chart links too. Rob has put a lot of time and energy into making the chart as accurate and up to date as possible.

Find an area where the chart is wrong? Have proof? Then great! Shoot the creator a message and he'll be more than happy to update it.

And again, the chart isn't "useless". How anything recording factual data can be "useless" is beyond me. The data is simply there. If you don't care about HPT, MPI, staking, etc. then move along. If these are features you want, then take note. It's a simple concept.

 

[Expertowgunner]

I work at a gun shop here in town and i will tell you we offer a fine selection of ar-15 type rifles at competitive prices and i have had the fine experience of dealing with customers who just had to have that 599 plinkster we had by oly and brought it back due to issues of all sorts. we quit carrying olympic arms due to the rash of bring backs and they were just not worth the time or money to deal with them. im not trying to bash olympic arms but a spade is a spade and a turd is a turd. we dont buy in bulk persay but idk who your distributors are but we will order 5-10 at a time and get a great deal on shipping (often its free) and are priced right and guess what me nor the owner whine about folks buying at "big box" stores because we often match or beat what they are selling (bass pro headquarters is in springfield mo just 8 miles down the road from my town). buy right, buy quality, sell at good price and guess what your customers will love you and vehemently support their favourite store. btw im not saying all olys dont take pmags but that one DEFFINENTLY did not accept them.

 

[billdeserthills]

As an FFL who stocks both Olympic & DPMS (as well as several others) I would simply state that neither rifle, in a stock configuration is really worth what is being asked, at least at this time. Now, last year it was different, but right now my distributors are tripping all over themselves to sell Any AR-15. I know DPMS has chrome-lined this, and also Olympics magic barrel is rated (by them) to last 80,000 rounds, but to really cut to the chase, if someone is interested in spending a pile of money, (and in this economy, that is a pile) you owe it to yourself to take a better look around.

 

[Expertowgunner]

agreed most of my distributors have racks of ars that they have overstocked and are begging to sell to us. we got a bunch of stags that were a steal for our price due to the fact they just had to many of them. the economy is bad and the obama scare is over so if folks do look around there are great deals to be had

 

[Expertowgunner]

one more thing i dont understand is why people act like a oly or similiar grade rifle is just as good as say a noveske, colt, lmt, or even a rra or stag even. They are just cheaply made rifles and you get cheap quality nothing more nothing less. does it mean they wont make a decent plinker with some work but for folks that want something affordable yet good enough for RELIABLE hd or similiar work look around and find a more reputable maker. hi point dont make themselves out to be as great and as high quality gun company as they dont advertise themselves as so (their carbine is advertised as the poor man defense rifle) but to say that a oly is better or the same as a bushmaster or smith that is a insult dear sir they are what they are

 

[cyclopsshooter]

who is you supplier expert? my primary inventory supplier is Ellett brothers out of SC and their inventory keeps turning up zilch- we were able to get four M&p15s about six months back but their cost was 1212...

 

[Expertowgunner]

we have multiple distributors mainly rsr, lipseys, and william shooters. every blue moon we might order something from cdnn or some other obscure folk. rsr is by far one of the better suppliers and our go to guy for that company does a excellent job on keeping us updated on the sales that go on. just look into different distributors and see who all is usually the best for it. we use lipseys for example as our ruger dealer as they often have great sales on rugers and have specials only through them. just spend a little time looking for the best deal possible and be sure to check online for what is selling and whats not and then see if your dealer price is comparable to whatever the to the going rate and see if its worth your time. imo most distributors really do screw over local gun shops and have even had some that purposely tried to rip us off (sent wrong gun and acted like we couldnt return it, said one price actually costed more due to "stock supply" and sort) and most dealers do have to take it. how is ammo availability up in washington as here in missouri we have been finally getting boatloads of cheap .380 and 9mm ammo in.

 

[Extremely Pro Gun]

This chart is very biased, like the 1:7 barrels being the best, that is 100% personal preference.

What about chrome lined barrels? A chrome moly barrel is more accurate at the cost of lasting fewer rounds also making it personal preference.

The receiver extension diameter doesn't matter its just mill-spec vs commercial ***?

Heavy buffer vs carbine buffer?????? <----- Preference

DUDE, this chart is completely whacked out!!!

For someone who sells these riles your knowledge of them seems lacking.

Please go HERE and educate yo

 

[Expertowgunner]

btw the way i read a interesting article in guns and ammo that described what is the DoD's list of what makes a m16 rifle milspec and compared it to commercial ars and quite frankly they pretty much said that there is NO true mil spec ar out on the market as the m16 uses select fire parts and somehow one of those is in the mil spec load out so there are no mil spec ar rifles. closest one according to them is the colt le6920 and only colt and fn hold the contracts for gov approved mil spec rifles right now.

 

[atlanticfire]

In the spirit of thinking that mill spec is bull and that chart is donkey. . . . Here is the new sig….

 

[Expertowgunner]

heres one for most: when are any of you country lovin gun clinging rednecks ever gonna need high cap cop killer black rifles with scary 30 round mags. what, your going to take on the viet cong with those of you pretending to be rambo with your 100 round beta c mags spraying wildly at those pop bottles at the local gun range. same logic and the answer is we want those features because of your personal preference and ideas for what suits your needs best. imho my made up sig is still not as funny as yours

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

This chart is very biased, like the 1:7 barrels being the best, that is 100% personal preference.

Maybe you should read the "Explanation of features" that comes with the chart? Nowhere does the chart state that 1:7 is the best barrel or that the rifle with the most checks is the best rifle. All the chart does is compare a very specific type of rifle (M4-types) against the TDP for the military M4 to show you how they match up.

It is up to the user to understand the relevance of those features. For example, the 1:7 will shoot everything from 45gr JHPs to 77gr SMKs. The 1:9's are marginally stable with most of the heavier rounds - though some 1:9s still shoot them well.

When are any of you mall Nazis ever gonna need a mill spec M4 anyway?

Personally I don't need or want all of the features of a military M4; however, a lot of those features have a significant value for me and so I appreciate the chart as an easy way to identify which manufacturers are willing to provide those features. Just to use one example, a properly staked gas key prevents you from owning an awkward bolt action and is relatively simple and fast to do. The fact that so many manufacturers want to charge $800+ for the rifle and then won't spend the 10 minutes it takes to properly stake the gas key suggests to me that their standards are probably low in other important places as well.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

ive got one of the cheap dpms sporticals and its become one of my favorite ars. Its been 100 percent dependable over probably 3000 rounds. Only thing done to it was a heavier extractor spring and black donut. I used to badmouth the olys myself as i had a couple crappy ones but the new guns there putting out as just as good as a dmps or bushmaster. Ive yet to see one that wasnt a tack driver.

 

[LeonCarr]

One thing mentioned on m4carbine.net is that several AR manufacturers (names not mentioned, probably the lower tier manufacturers) have contacted Rob_s claiming his chart is wrong. I interpret that as we do not want you to tell the world that our rifles are junk. Hopefully it will also encourage the lower tier manufacturers to build a better rifle.

FWIW, the most accurate AR-15 I have ever shot was an Olympic with free float handguard, 24 inch Ultramatch heavy barrel, and a 24 power Leupold scope. Five shot groups under .5 inch at 100 yards with 52 grain Sierra Matchking handloads. There are better quality rifles out there, but the Olympic Arms Ultramatch barrels are very very good.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr