iran war

Status
Not open for further replies.
Expound

Well Iran is going to fire up it's own exchange for oil in March.

And supposedly that's also supposed to be when Iran will be ready to start turning on reactors. So Israel isn't going to let that happen especially now. The guy replacing Sharon will almost gaurantee himself election by kicking some Iranian hind end. The only possible Israeli leader that has the stature and the stones to let the reactors fire up would have been Sharon. And he almost certainly would not have allowed it to happen. This year could be a real nasty one for the good ole USA unfortunately for me I'm only 31 and I didn't start looking at this kind of thing until Katrina. So IMHO I'm woefully unprepared I just hope I can get my tax return so I can buy my AR and a chunk of ammo.
 
Lobotomy Boy said:

Thanks! Interesting article.

But, my take on it is that people will continue switching to euro, so long as the dollar keeps falling. The dollar keeps falling not because of petroeuro, but because of our trade imbalance and suicidal domestic and foreign policies.

If we pull back to our borders, stop providing free security and financial aid to foreign countries, cut military spending to a third of its current gigantomaniacal levels, and heavily invest in new technologies and industries, we will not only regain our economic power but revitalize our own country and nation with a new hope for a better future.

Globalists playing the "whack-a-mole" game with conventional and eventually nuclear clubs are only hastening our rapid decline. Ergo the tragedy of both Bush's administrations. The RINOs had a historic window of opportunity to make things right. They not only squandered them but did extra damage.
 
DigitalWarrior said:
If there is real evidence, I would love to see it. Until then I remain Skeptical:scrutiny:.


My source:

MARINE CORPS HISTORICAL PUBLICATION

FMFRP 3-203 - Lessons Learned: Iran-Iraq War,
10 December 1990

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/war/docs/3203/

Chapter 2 "Overview" - page 10



"The Iranians first used the human wave attack on November 29, 1981, at Bostan. The brutality of the maneuver stunned the Iraqis. The Iranians hearded hundreds of children (some no more than 12 years old) into the combat zone to detonate concealed mines. The children were followed by Basij who threw themselves on the barbed wire, cutting through the entanglements under fire of the Iraqis........."
 
Thanks! Interesting article.

Thank Waitone--he posted that link on the first page of this thread. It was just so informative that I reposted it because it seemed that some had missed it.

The RINOs had a historic window of opportunity to make things right. They not only squandered them but did extra damage.

Two years ago I was fishing with one of my best friends and I told him exactly that. I said that the Bush administration had squandered the best opportunity for a truly conservative revolution in our lifetime by invading Iraq. A year and a half before that, in the fall of 2002, I told this same friend that we should not invade Iraq at that time because even though we would easily win a war with Iraq, there was no way we could win an occupation in the long run.

In turn, this same friend had a theory about why we were going to war with Iraq that was frighteningly close to the one postulated in the link Waitone posted. All that was missing in his theory was the part about the petro-dollar/petro-euro situation, which is sort of the missing link in all this. I have to say that his theory was a lot less obvious and a lot more perceptive than the ones I had.
 
R. H. Lee said, "We have enough oil reserves in the continental U.S. and Alaska to make us independent of reliance on foreign oil."

I just really do not believe that. We're importing over 50% of our national daily/annual usage. That's much more than the one million bpd estimated to be had from ANWR, and the offshore possible oil is another one or few million bpd. "New" oil from Alaska and from offshore fields isn't enough to make up the difference. It would probably help reduce current pricing, yeah. But that's all.

Now, we have alternative transportation fuels, but they're nowhere near being readily available. The big problem with them is that the energy required to provide them is a much larger percentage of the energy within. That is, oil is a 30:1 return on development energy. Alternatives are in the realm of 5:1.
There is a fix, drill where there is oil and tell the left wing tree huggers to go to the hot place. They shouldn't be allowed to completely destroy everything, but there are so many restrictions to drill and set up a refinery it is ridicules. Also we have a lot of farmers that are on hard times, switch them to sweet corn, tomatoes, other things high in sugar that are good for ethanol production. Ethanol can be made relatively cheaply, we have plenty of farmland and giving the farmers that have hit hard times a profit again would be a damn good thing, and it burns cleaner in your car anyway. Maybe not enough for a total switch but enough to blend into gas and make us much more self sufficient and not have to rely on the mid east nearly as much. Even in the winter I would rather rely on states that remain at a high enough temperature to grow crops like Florida and California then having to rely on the middle east.
 
There is a fix, drill where there is oil and tell the left wing tree huggers to go to the hot place. They shouldn't be allowed to completely destroy everything, but there are so many restrictions to drill and set up a refinery it is ridicules. Also we have a lot of farmers that are on hard times, switch them to sweet corn, tomatoes, other things high in sugar that are good for ethanol production. Ethanol can be made relatively cheaply, we have plenty of farmland and giving the farmers that have hit hard times a profit again would be a damn good thing, and it burns cleaner in your car anyway. Maybe not enough for a total switch but enough to blend into gas and make us much more self sufficient and not have to rely on the mid east nearly as much. Even in the winter I would rather rely on states that remain at a high enough temperature to grow crops like Florida and California then having to rely on the middle east.

There are a few problems with this, the primary one being that all this is not necessarily about controlling oil reserves but rather about controlling the oil-based economy. The oil companies running this country don't necessarily want more oil; they want higher profit margins on the oil they already have. More oil will only make oil cheaper and drive down profit margins. We don't want to control Iranian oil outright--we just want to make sure they sell it on our exchanges and in our currency. This is as much about propping up the dollar and financing our national debt as it is about depleting the world's oil supplies.

Second, it doesn't appear that there is enough easily recoverable oil in ANWAR to make up for the oil we consume from Arab countries.

Third, it looks like producing ethanol for use as fuel is a net energy-losing enterprise, though that hasn't been proven to my satisfaction. At best, however, it is a break-even proposition, especially when considering the decreased fuel economy vehicles experience when using oxygenated fuels. In Minnesota it appears our "green" policies requiring the use of ethanol are nothing more than welfare for ag producing companies like Cargill and ADM.
 
bigun15 said:
God help us. After reading this thread, I think the world is ending.

Yeah, imagine a world where the US just freaking left the world to it's own ends and got off the oil and onto renewable fuels.
 
MrTuffPaws said:
Yeah, imagine a world where the US just freaking left the world to it's own ends and got off the oil and onto renewable fuels.

It would change every aspect of our foreign and much of our domestic policy. And not for the worse.
 
subscribing...very informative if not troubling thread....

and to think i ship out to bootcamp in May...at least i'll be protected since im going to college...I hope.

Chad
 
R. H. Lee said, "We have enough oil reserves in the continental U.S. and Alaska to make us independent of reliance on foreign oil."

I just really do not believe that. We're importing over 50% of our national daily/annual usage. That's much more than the one million bpd estimated to be had from ANWR, and the offshore possible oil is another one or few million bpd. "New" oil from Alaska and from offshore fields isn't enough to make up the difference. It would probably help reduce current pricing, yeah. But that's all.
There is a fix, drill where there is oil and tell the left wing tree huggers to go to the hot place. They shouldn't be allowed to completely destroy everything, but there are so many restrictions to drill and set up a refinery it is ridicules. Also we have a lot of farmers that are on hard times, switch them to sweet corn, tomatoes, other things high in sugar that are good for ethanol production. Ethanol can be made relatively cheaply, we have plenty of farmland and giving the farmers that have hit hard times a profit again would be a damn good thing, and it burns cleaner in your car anyway. Maybe not enough for a total switch but enough to blend into gas and make us much more self sufficient and not have to rely on the mid east nearly as much. Even in the winter I would rather rely on states that remain at a high enough temperature to grow crops like Florida and California then having to rely on the middle east.

The thing is, its not even a question about drilling on native soil anymore. There are only a few countries that haven't reached peak oil. Russia reached peak oil in the 70s or 80s, can't remember which, CONUS just headed over the peak oil hill (and I believe that included Texas). Iraq may only contribute something like 7 percent of the worlds oil, but its one of the only countries in the world that hasn't reached peak oil, it has recently been embargoed and not fully developed, and certainly is not being fully exploited right now for various reasons. Saudi Arabia is one of the countries that hasn't reached peak oil yet, but it's soon coming due to the harmful methods they use to extract oil. I think they have until 2025. Iran and Iraq are set to be major players in the future world of fossil fuels, as is our ally Saudi Arabia. The country that has ties with both has the power to control the world.

Lets make one thing clear, if this war is about the oil, and I think its clear that at least in part it is, we are fighting for the future. The future of the United States, possibly as much as a half century into it. Its clear that our current leaders are aggressive about the United States staying a superpower. Drilling on US soil is a relatively short term deal.

festivities in Iran will begin in march.
Lovely, thats my birthday.

Israel will not allow Iran to have Nukes.
The American reaction depends totally on what happens with Israel.
The next US administration is an unknown.
The answer to one nuke is two.
Americans are not going to approve of invading another ME country without extreme provocation.
The China/America trading partnership has increased by 1000% in the past 20 years.
The press will be on the side of the Iranians.
The Mullahs control Iran in spite of the fact the majority of their population is young and not actively anti-American.
The Arab street is fickle and mostly bluster.

I see a couple of questions...

Is Iran mature enough to treat with as we did the Soviets?
What government will come to power in Israel now that Sharon is gone?
What do China and India think is better...Iran holding their energy needs at will, or the relatively short interruption a war would bring?

Iran is not mature enough to treat with as we did the Soviets, clearly demonstrated by the fact that we declared them as a rogue state. I'm not sure what that last question means, could you rephrase it and perhaps go into it in more detail please?

Your statements show some excellent insight into the truth. I don't believe there will be a full scale ground war, if there is it will be followed by the big D.
The Mullahs control Iran in spite of the fact the majority of their population is young and not actively anti-American.
True. Perhaps fertile ground for a coup if you ask me, the Iranian youth is thirsty for western goods and practices.

Call me a tinfoil hatter, but I don't believe the next presidency is an unknown. Not what with is at stake now, the future of America, so much time, effort and thought has already been poured into this project. If we pull out of Iraq now far too much could be lost. I think either the candidate set to win will accept current policy concerning the matter, or will befall an unfortunate accident involving dead male hookers and a goat, or as a last resort, a bullet.

If I were president I would order F-117 Nighthawks and B-2 Spirits to strike all aboveground facilities associated with Iran's nuclear program with conventional munitions, then assassinate key political and military figures and coup the government. I would ensure the government was at least semi-friendly to Chinese and Indian interests, staying loyal to the previous administrations contracts. China has a variety of revenges for us if we decide to nix their main source of fossil fuels, everything from state sponsored counterfeiting to dumping currency, or fiddling with the national debt and nuking us.

Then again Iran is a country that would be particularly hard to coup. For one thing their Revolutionary Guard would be a formidable foe. This coup couldn't be a haphazard thing, it would have to be thought out in great detail, prepared for and carried out perfectly and swiftly.

Great post, Ghost Squire. I knew that China and Iran were in bed together, but I din't know that they were having a threesome with India.
One glaring problem is, whatever Israel does, we'll likely publicly back them if not actively participate. Either way, there will be hell to pay from the rest of the Islamic world for the USA.
Thank you, and you're right about Islamic backlash. The problem is everything that benefits us, makes the Islamic world hate us.

Funny, I read http://www.energybulletin.net/7707.html only after I had made my first two posts in this thread, yet I see many of my views reinforced by it. It also brought to my attention some things that I find very interesting, thanks for linking me.


Hmmm... maybe someone should start a thead entitled, "If I were president", and everyone would chip in and say what they would do if they were president.
 
As I did in my other post, I would ask you folks exactly who it is that it going to fight this future war of yours?

Certainly not an American volunteer army stretched to its limits across the globe. Sure we can devistate Iran with our overwhelming techno-supremacy and impressive arsenal of fine weapons, but when it comes time to pacify/occupy, who is going to do the dirty work?

A war with Iran, at least in the next decade, means a draft. There's no way around it.
 
surely Israel will strike Iran when they feel it necessary.no consensus building,no internet polls,no compromise.
 
Waitone said:
Tough situation but there had better be a resolution to the problem because the very last thing anyone wants is a radical Islamic government, with access to a high percentage of the world's oil supply, implementing a nuclear umbrella under which Islamic jihadists can conduct their violent actions. Bad, bad situation that will not go away. I hope for the best but I am more pessamistic about the Iran situation than I am about what's happening in Iraq.

True, but I'm not hearing anything about that third member of the "Axis of Evil".

Might make a tough situation unthinkable. :eek:
 
Don't forget wars run up debt China owns a big chunk of our debt so we really can't do anything without China's blessing. We can't close our borders and raise tariffs so stuff gets built here. We can't stop selling them the technology that they blatantly pirate and sell. We can't start a war with Iran that will shut off China's oil.

Why do we have to take input from China.

BECAUSE THE AMERICAN DOLLAR IS WORTHLESS

Our once mighty currency is backed by nothing but massive debt. If China gets mad at us all they have to do is dump their dollars. Imagine waking up tomorrow and having the price of everything go up 10 times.

A lot of people will say China needs us to buy their goods. The U.S. use to make and buy most of what we made for a long time. China has a billion people they can buy a lot of stuff with the rest of the world buying the rest.

Even if Iran decide to give its reactors to Israel, the dollar is still going to go down in value. And all it takes is for the Chinese to get PO'd and they can trash our economy.

That is why the price of gold has been going up so much recently our money isn't worth as much as it used to be. Go to a gun show the prices are up too.

I bought a Ruger P94DC in 2001 for 380$(427 with tax and background) I went to a gunshow 2 months ago same gun was at 460.

Hopefully nothing hapens in Iran. But even if it doesn't we are still in for a bunch of trouble.

Face it non of these corrupt bastards are going to roll back govt. to a quarter of its size so we can pay the debt. So do yourselves a favor and be ready for some tough times. If your like me and you live in Fl say your getting ready for hurricane season early.
 
Art Eatman said:
R. H. Lee said, "We have enough oil reserves in the continental U.S. and Alaska to make us independent of reliance on foreign oil."

I just really do not believe that. We're importing over 50% of our national daily/annual usage.
We are only importing over 50% of our usage because of the politically forced "interdependence" and corporate government cooperation with certain countries whose corporations pump, pipe and ship oil at the oil fix rate - and the client states in which the wells are geographically located. Not because we do not have sufficient oil and natural gas located on the CONUS.
-----------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
Originally Posted by MrTuffPaws
Yeah, imagine a world where the US just freaking left the world to it's own ends and got off the oil and onto renewable fuels.

It would change every aspect of our foreign and much of our domestic policy. And not for the worse.

It would certainly change every aspect of our policies for the worse as far as the oil companies who are the puppet masters of our "elected" officials; hence it won't happen under our current system. Energy independence for the U.S. would devestate the oil industry's collective profit margin. Political stability in the Middle East would devestate the oil industry's collective profit margin. The oil industry's collective profit margin has been proven to be of higher value than tens of thousands of human lives.

The Democrats offer no reasonable alternative to the Republicans on this. Yesterday I listened to John Kerry blather the same corporate-oil party line as the Bush administration.

Someone suggested a thread describing our actions if we were president. I think that the best suggestions would simply be a blueprint for a presidential assassination--anyone who did what was right for the country as opposed to what was right for the energy industry would soon be feeding the same worms as JFK.

How do these people live with themselves? How do they go to sleep at night?
 
Nimitz said:
subscribing...very informative if not troubling thread....

and to think i ship out to bootcamp in May...at least i'll be protected since im going to college...I hope.

Chad

uh....don't count on it. if you were in college and had not made a commitment to the military..i.e. enlisting in the reserves or national guard you might be ok. but since you say you're going to boot camp, i'm assuming you have done just that. you're enrollment in college will not be a factor if they need to call up whatever guard or reserve unit you're in. that's exciting though....you must wanna fight, so now you'll get your chance. i myself was qualifying with my m16 on 11 Sep 2001. imagine how that felt. you're goin to war chad.......hooah.

hey, since you're fate is sealed, just go active and do something high speed like joining the cavalry or airborne infantry.
 
We need to remember the majority of the Iranian population under 30. They are like-minded and want to join the western world. The U.S. will be very cautious not ot burn any bridges with the folks we need to take power. I agree with sevela posts about our actions in the ME, being based on the ultimate target of Iran. Iran is the center of gravity for the Islamofacists, but this is driven by the minorit that rule. I worked with an Iranian expat during the onset of GW2, and she was all for getting Saddam, but she mentioned that Tehran needed to be the next stop. Another item we need to remember....we never got paybacks for the little incident in '79....which of course was driven by the same folks in power today.
 
nucstl1 said:
....we never got paybacks for the little incident in '79....which of course was driven by the same folks in power today.
Yes, some of us remember. Maybe we should send Jimmy Carter over to negotiate??? He did soooo wellll with Yassir....:cuss:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top