Is 6 Shots Really Enough?

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Mindset, skillset, toolset

I know it seems that all I am doing is presenting stories in lieu of data, but I do think it is valid to draw from real life stories and try to learn any applicability to the present or future.
So, if you will indulge me, I would like to share one example, as I think it pertains. I do not know the veracity, but the lady concerned is trustworthy in my view, so I trust her recollection of events is accurate. At one point, near the "safe" and "good" little town of Troy, Idaho, said young woman was in one of the fields, near the road, tending the livestock when a vehicle containing three migrant workers passed by, then turned around and passed by slowly, then again, quite slowly, to come to a stop on the side of the road by the fence, about 10 yards from the lone woman. Naturally her alarm bells were ringing, she listened to them... the 3 males exited the car, asked questions regarding the presence of family, other laborers, etc. After 2 had crossed over onto the property (over a ditch), she felt it might be better to have clear access to her single action revolver and adjusted her coat accordingly. At this movement, all 3 males backed away, got into the car and left.
Now, in discussing this case with her, she stated her belief that she was being "interviewed" until they saw the weapon. I argue that they were continuing the victim selection process until they left, as they attempted to ascertain her mindset, skillset, and not her sidearm. In her body language, friendly but firm tone, physical motions, she exhibited a resolution to act, demonstrated skills that showed some skill, and they became aware of a tool.
It is common to become perhaps too concerned with the tool, and not concerned enough with determination or the ability to use a tool to the best that we can.
I want to tie the above with a couple of completely unscientific notes. Using the great example above of assailants coming around the truck at breakneck speed and reinforcing what JohnKSa and sidheshooter are writing. From timing my old, short pudgy self, I can walk halfway around the vehicle in apx. 6 seconds, trot in apx 3 seconds. Breakneck speed for sporting gym rat 17 y.o. youths are likely about 2, not longer than 3, conceivably about 1 second. Assuming 2 attackers have assessed the defender as their victim, the defender's likelihood of an unscathed victory are not what most of us would like.
In such a dire situation, we may agree with bsms (and others) that at least we will hurt the adversary in return, and not just be an "easy victim". This attitude itself, I suggest, is the mindset that will keep us from having to use the toolset.
On a side note, I was under the impression that sideplate screws were supposed to tightly down, and, unless one is a gunsmith or such, we ought not to remove it as a usual thing?
I digress.. the lady in the case above is illustrative both of mindset and of the use of barriers, the best time where I think the "high" capacity can be helpful, as the attack, or, attackers, are slowed/ blocked/ canalized etc and so are not strangling me in about a second.
Thanks :)
 
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Totally OT, but, I have much more fond memories of Troy, ID. That's where renown holster maker Rob Leahy of simply rugged lived when he started making holsters for friends. He ran some great "Paladin"-ish practical pistol matches back in the day. Excellent training for the time, and a super cool guy.

Sorry for the diversion; carry on.
 
I'm not interested in a gun that cannot be fired from a coat pocket, I wear coats the majority of the year where I am.

I do want a gun that's hard to grab, and I want the best handle to be the one I have a hold of.

I'm not too interested in a gun which will jam if both me and an assailant have a grip on it and it's fired. I want a gun that is totally usable during the time both he and I have a grip on it.

2 shots at 2 feet in 2 seconds. Old formula learned the hard way.
 
I want a gun that is totally usable during the time both he and I have a grip on it.

That kind of limits you to something with one or more fixed barrels, and an internal hammer with a rotating firing pin, doesn't it?
 
Posted by antiquus: 2 shots at 2 feet in 2 seconds.
If he's moving at five meters per second, he will move thirty feet in those two seconds. If it is the first of your two shots that hits him at two feet, it will likely be your last.

Dennis Tueller showed us that an attacker can close on us in a very short time indeed; one may not be able to fire until an attacker is very close indeed. But if an attacker with a blade gets within two feet, the defender is in serious trouble by any standard.

Relying on wounding effectiveness alone at that point, or even at five feet, would be foolhardy. One had better be moving away very quickly, and if at all possible, putting something between oneself and the attacker.
 
I want a gun that is totally usable during the time both he and I have a grip on it.

That rules out revolvers.

He grabs it, cylinder can't rotate, you get zero shots off.

If, however, you had a semi auto in that situation, you would get one shot off before the slide failed to cycle properly and you had a malfunction.

Just sayin'
 
If, however, you had a semi auto in that situation, you would get one shot off before the slide failed to cycle properly and you had a malfunction.

Just sayin'

Unless the badguy pushed the slide out of battery preventing it from firing.

Just sayin'
 
Unless the badguy pushed the slide out of battery preventing it from firing.

Just sayin'

Valid point.

Either way, claiming revolver > semi auto under the belief that the gun will bill "totally usable" even when the attacker is grabbing/holding it, just plain doesn't work.
 
Eight pages and I have read nothing that would convince me to abandon my J-frame CCWs or larger revolvers for defending myself, my car, or my home. But - I constantly employ 'situational awareness' as well as consciously avoiding 'bad situations', such as the less desireable side of town. When I was POOW in the USN, I often was the only armed sailor between the gangway and the ship's proper, including it's nuclear weapons. Also, I would be the only armed guard accompaning a disbursing clerk to the base and back with enough cash to cash the squadron's payroll checks, if needed - ~$300k in small bills. I carried a worn loaded 1911 - and a spare loaded mag. Fourteen rounds of .45 ACP ball ammo was deemed 'enough' for those chores, admittedly over four decades ago.

I chose an Airweight J-frame, like my 642, because I could pocket carry it 24/7, my prior L-frame 5-shooter .44 Special, a 296, being too large for some of my pants' pockets. I went from occasional carry with the 296 to 24/7 with the 642 - that was important. Earlier this year I added a 351PD - lighter weight and 7 x .22 WMR - to my selection. Home defense includes my 2 5/8" PC627 UDR x8 and my wife's 2" 10 and 4" 64, all kept loaded with 158gr LHPSWC +P's. Relatively easy to get, I also have a few other revolvers - then my safe revolvers, which all have speedloaders or moonclips full of defensive ammo stashed in a drawer. No shotguns, save my Governor - and one carbine, an M&P 15, with a few mags loaded and stowed elsewhere. Not the best situation, I am certain. But - it fits 'me', my psyche, and my situation. YMMV.

Stainz
 
There's just no getting around the fact that autoloaders are more ammo sensitive than revolvers.
You can have an otherwise perfectly functioning autoloader that, for no apparent reason, will fail to chamber a round.
 
You can have an otherwise perfectly functioning autoloader that, for no apparent reason, will fail to chamber a round.

That's why all the police and military forces don't use autoloading pistols and rifles.

Oops, seems that they do!

Could that be because the probability of a properly maintained autoloader failing to chamber a round is quite low in relation to the benefits gained?
 
He has a point. All else equal, a semi auto IS more likely to experience a stoppage than a revolver.

"Limp wristing"
Failure to feed
Failure to extract
Failure to eject

These are all things the revolver shooter doesn't have to worry about for the 5-8 shots, or whatever, their pistol holds.

We all have to decide for ourselves which set of advantages is more appealing to us and our situation. Semi autos obviously have their own set of advantages.
 
Back in the old days you were very lucky if you had a single shot pistol and then perhaps a large knife. That didn't stop people from going into pretty bad lands or what all. I wouldn't worry about it one way or another.
 
It doesn't appear that there are many folks present in this thread who were TRAINED to fight with a revolver. Perhaps y'all are just young revolver afficianados. Or perhaps the old revolver fighting tips and tricks are now relegated to historys dustbin.

Anyways, it USE TO BE COMMON KNOWLEDGE, among revolver carrying folks, that if some miscreant closed his hand around the cylinder of your revolver, while you were fixin to shoot him, you simply rotated the revolver while pulling the trigger in the direction OPPOSITE of the direction the cylinder rotates in.

Another words if you had a S&W, you used your grip on your revolver to rotate the gun CLOCKWISE while squeezing the trigger. If you had a Colt, you rotated it counter clockwise.

Doesn't anybody teach this stuff anymore? I guess not based on the number of folks who only feel well armed with a bazillion rounds..........

I'm a dinosaur and the meteor is almost here............
 
It doesn't appear that there are many folks present in this thread who were TRAINED to fight with a revolver. Perhaps y'all are just young revolver afficianados. Or perhaps the old revolver fighting tips and tricks are now relegated to historys dustbin.

Anyways, it USE TO BE COMMON KNOWLEDGE, among revolver carrying folks, that if some miscreant closed his hand around the cylinder of your revolver, while you were fixin to shoot him, you simply rotated the revolver while pulling the trigger in the direction OPPOSITE of the direction the cylinder rotates in.

Another words if you had a S&W, you used your grip on your revolver to rotate the gun CLOCKWISE while squeezing the trigger. If you had a Colt, you rotated it counter clockwise.

Doesn't anybody teach this stuff anymore? I guess not based on the number of folks who only feel well armed with a bazillion rounds..........

I'm a dinosaur and the meteor is almost here............

I've gotta say...I never heard that before...but it sounds good to me!

But, as you guessed, I (and probably man others) was never trained to fight with a revolver. I was trained to fight with a semi automatic, and learned revolver on my own. It is not surprising that little things like that are missing from my knowledge base.

That's what I get for being 20-something, eh? :)
 
Wow!

Seems I can't trust any of my guns, wheelguns or semis! Not enough rounds, not enough reliability, too many rounds that encourage me to miss a lot, a guy can grab a gun and keep it from firing, a guy can grab my gun and make it fire, a slow fat guy can run around my car faster than I can shoot, a fast skinny guy can duck my 5 shots from a J frame and make me wish I had a Glock. I can be attacked by one tall, fat guy who will absorb 5 shots and say "Thank You", I will be pursued by 50 Black and Mexican gangbangers for no reason other than they don't like the way I look and they all have body armor!

8 pages of fear and arguments as to why guns are unreliable!

Good thing I have a knife.

tipoc
 
8 pages of fear and arguments as to why guns are unreliable!

A well made, well maintained firearm is usually reliable in the hands of a well trained individual...usually, but not always. So be prepared for the failure, should it occur. Depend on yourself for your survival, not your equipment.
 
I carry both revolvers and autos, but USUALLY not at the same time. I know my guns, and I trust and maintain the guns that I use. Use whichever you prefer; they both have platforms that have six rounds, ifthat is your magic number. And don't let anyone tell you that six is not enough. They don't know, and neither do I. It's a crap shoot out there. :uhoh:
 
Seems someone missed my sarcasm. I shoulda put a smiley face there. :)

But there are 8 pages here of folks trying to convince each other that none of them knows what they are doing. Maybe they are all right. That's kinda funny.

tipoc
 
6 shots plus P in my Colt Agent 38

I don't fear because I followed rule 1 and that is to always have a gun. One plan of action always includes using the downed perps weapon if I run out or low in a multi bad guy situation. I don't look for trouble and will avoid if I can but if no safe escape is present then I will only draw if I plan to use it. If the situation is not resolved by the show of force, then it gets fired. No warning shots. I shoot to stop the threat and that may be up to 6 shots.
 
After reading this thread I made a decision. I will keep my simple and reliable wheel guns. If six or heck most of the time five aren't enough! I will reload like I practice! Quickly with the speed loaders I carry! Then it will be six or five again! Ha!
 
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