Is This Too Much Crimp

[slowr1der]

As I'm trying to work up a 44 magnum load with Xtreme 240 grain bullets, I'm wondering how much crimp I need. Xtreme says they recommend a "light taper crimp", but being a 44 magnum, I am using a roll crimp, not a taper crimp.

I initially started with a lot less crimp, but it wasn't enough crimp to be visible to the naked eye. With the recoil of this thing, it worries me a bit. So I turned the die in until I got what looked like a medium roll crimp. When I pulled the bullet to check, I see this crimp ring. Xtreme doesn't say, but Berry's says you shouldn't see any more than a scratch on a bullet from the crimp. This makes me think this is too much crimp, but if I don't crimp it like this, I'm worried I'm going to have bigger problems.

I also didn't get wonderful accuracy and I'm wondering if this is the cause, or if it just was my shooting that day.

 

[243winxb]

it wasn't enough crimp to be visible to the naked eye.

Load some like this, then do the test.

Fire all but the last round in the cylinder. Measure its OAL. Has it moved from its orginal OAL?

 

[Load Master]

For Xtreme bullets I use a taper crimp as suggested by them in place of the roll crimp when loading 357 mag. I actually use a 9mm Luger taper crimp die. For 44 Rem Mag, I use the Lee Factory Crimp die. I just go light on the crimp. These are jacketed bullets, that I just loaded, 44 Rem Mag for comparison.

 

[joneb]

I tried xtreme's 240 gr plated rnfp in a 7.5" Ruger Red Hawk, I could not get that bullet to shoot straight, I did manage to shoot my chronograph right on the money with that POS bullet

 

[CZ9shooter]

I load those bullets in 44 too. 44 special that is.

For hard hitting magnum rounds I will only use a bullet with a deep cannelure. Jacketed or cast. Even then the sixth round will usually get pulled out a by a small amount. Good results can probably be attained with plated bullets, but I dont feel it is worth the hassle.

I use little to no crimp at all for the specials. My 7.5" Redhawk barely recoils at all.

And, like has been mentioned, I have not been impressed with accuracy. I figured it was just plated bullets in general, as I am pretty new to them, but maybe its this brand. I dont know yet.

 

[iShoot17]

What powder and charge are you using? It is my impression that plated bullets have their spot in the lineup, but fall short of being the candidates for “full magnum loads”.

With a roll crimp such as yours on a plated bullet, the plating is being deformed and is probably being destroyed while being fired - ruining accuracy. With you talking about the recoil of your firearm, it gives the impression you’ve selected the wrong bullet for the job.

I’m sure others will correct me if I am wrong, but if you’ve hit the point of needing a moderate to heavy roll crimp on a plated bullet, you should probably go back to the drawing board (hint: XTP!). I’ve had great results with plated bullets, including in 44 Magnum, as long as I have treated them as plated bullets.

 

[buck460XVR]

"Is This Too Much Crimp?"

In my Honest Opinion, for a plated bullet, yes it is. You are getting close to cutting thru the copper plating itself, one reason a taper crimp is recommended. You also probably have deformed the soft swagged lead core and have separated it from the copper plating. I am a firm believer that plated bullets do not fall into the usefulness at velocities/recoil that require that much crimp.

 

[Walkalong]

What powder and charge are you using? It is my impression that plated bullets have their spot in the lineup, but fall short of being the candidates for “full magnum loads”.

The question I was going to ask. How hard are you pushing them. And I would use a taper crimp, although some folks successfully roll crimp them.

with that POS bullet

I had a revolver that would not shoot plated bullets no matter what crimp or velocity, my guess was poorly aligned chambers, dunno. It shot jacketed great. Might not be the bullet, might be too much crimp, might be a combination of things.

I shoot a couple of different X-Treme bullets and like them, but they don't like to be abused much. The Powerbond is a better choice to try to push real hard. I shoot a 200 Gr X-Treme (Among other things), in .44 Spl with a taper crimp and they perform well.

Bottom line, yes, I would say that crimp is pushing the envelope, especially if you are trying to run full loads.

 

[slowr1der]

I loaded them with 22.1 grains of H110 which is on the lighter side of my Hornady book. I was trying to keep them around 1200 fps since that's what Xtreme recommends.

I'll try backing off the crimp and see what happens.

To the guy mentioning shooting his chronograph, I feel you. I also shot and ruined the frame of my spinner target with these things. I'm starting to get frustrated with plated bullets as a whole. I wish I didn't have so many of them. I'm also having trouble getting Berry's to shoot accurately in 9mm.

 

[joed]

I'm not a fan of plated bullets and have found they don't do well at higher velocities. You can buy a Lee taper crimp die for .44 and that may be what you need. I use the Lee Factory crimp dies for all revolver rounds. The problem with a seating/crimp die is it's trying to do 2 things at once which can cause problems. With a separate crimp die you will have no problems with crimping.

Another thing I would do if it were me is use 2400 powder, I'm a big fan of this powder in .44 and .357. It is more forgiving then H110 when it comes to reduced loadings but can still produce respectable high velocity when needed. I quit using H110 the first time I tried 2400.

 

[Toprudder]

I've had decent luck with plated in 357mag, but not with 44mag. I tried different things with the 44mag plated bullets, just never got decent accuracy, and even had evidence of plating failure (copper and lead in the barrel).

I decided to try some Zero 240 JSP bullets, which are only about $0.14 each, and have had great results with them in my revolver and 20" carbine, even when pushed to 1800fps in the carbine. Shot just as well as XTPs (within the limits of my ability to tell). I don't even bother with plated or coated bullets in 44 anymore.

http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=RZD&Category_Code=ZBJ-44MAG

IMHO, the collet style crimper from Lee (not the normal FCD) is the best thing to use with plated bullets. It will form a small cannelure without breaking the plating. Lee makes them for the 357 and 44 mags.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/781382/lee-collet-style-crimp-die

 

[HB]

I didn’t have good luck with them in 357. I tried a few different loads with varying crimp. Ended up loading the rest at about 800 fps in 38 cases to shoot at action pistol matches.

For the trouble and time you spend reloading, I think springing for jacketed bullets is worth it. If it’s for shooting plates at 15 yards plated is fine. Feel the same way about ball loads from a single stage rifle press. I took a long time to prep cases, why not shoot match bullets?

HB

 

[mdi]

This is one of the major reasons I don't recommend plated bullets to new reloaders. Not enough easily found info. and not enough experience to deal with "odd" bullets. Some things just don't work out as "planned" (but "planned" would indicate some forethought). A couple thoughts; the manufacturer must have a reason to suggest a light crimp. Does the OP know more about the plated bullets than the manufacturer? Why do they recommend a light taper crimp"? I've read that a roll crimp heavy enough to hold a plated bullet during Magnum recoil can cut through the plating. The danger in this is possible copper shards remaining in the barrel. I haven't experience this but I haven't put a heavy roll crimp on any plated bullets.

 

[ray15]

I've been loading xtreme 158HPs in full-power (16.7gr. W296) .357 mag with good results. I started out with a taper crimp, and they shot patterns. Since I had made a few boxes like that, I took the unfired ones and roll-crimped them pretty heavily. The same rounds, now roll-crimped, shot tiny groups. The recovered bullets show no sign of plating failure.

Your crimp does look pretty aggressive, but I'd let the accuracy and the condition of the plating on recovered bullets be the guide. I find the thick-plate xtremes like the 158HP take a lot more abuse than I thought they would, and even the thin plate ones like the 158SWC hold up well to a fairly pronounced roll-crimp. I shoot the SWCs in full-power 2400 loads and they work very well too.

 

[Load Master]

This happen while setting up my press. This is a true jacketed soft tipped bullet. Note the lead is pushed up on the tip from the crimp. I expect that plated would be even more sensitive compared to the jacketed.

 

[frankmako]

to much for plated bullets. back off and test for how it groups. get a taper crimp die. i load lots of extreme 44 mag and 357 mag bullets that are used in nra lever action silhouette. i played around with the taper crimp to get the best group. i do not use a roll crimp any more, no matter what i load.

 

[slowr1der]

So am I better off with a taper crimp die, or the Lee FCD? I see Lee makes both.

 

[joed]

So am I better off with a taper crimp die, or the Lee FCD? I see Lee makes both.

One of my friends never used a roll crimp on any revolver rounds and he swore by it being better. I've never tried it but if it works it is probably better. Brass will last longer would be one benefit.

 

[Toprudder]

So am I better off with a taper crimp die, or the Lee FCD? I see Lee makes both.

IMHO, get the collet style crimper from Lee. This is NOT the normal FCD that they sell.

 

[Walkalong]

So am I better off with a taper crimp die, or the Lee FCD? I see Lee makes both.

I would try the taper crimp die. You can still damage the bullet if you get carried away, but it's harder to do. Same for the collet style FCD for pistol, it can easily over do it if you aren't careful. It would definitely be able to stop any bullet creep though.

I bought some Powerbond .44 bullets to try in .44 Mag (Because they are so tough), but due to my low volume .44 Mag shooting have not tried them yet. I used to shoot midrange plus loads with Raniers in .44 Mag with Blue Dot using a taper crimp, and it worked well.

I just bought 250 Zero jacketed .44 bullets at the gun show, that will likely last me 2, 3, maybe even 4 years at the pace I shoot .44 Mag.

I really do need to load up some of those Powerbonds and try them. If they are not satisfactory, I'll use them in .44 Spl.

 

[243winxb]

Do the test. If bullets move more then .010" , adjust the neck tension. Smallet expander.
Measure brass before and after seating the bullet. The neck needs to have expanded .004" for maximum bullet hold. But not size the bullet smaller in diameter.

Taper crimp.

 

[ray15]

So am I better off with a taper crimp die, or the Lee FCD? I see Lee makes both.

I have both for 38 special. I like the FCD better simply because of the ease of adjustment. Without a set of shims like Walkalong uses it's much slower an more clumsy to adjust the standard taper crimp die.

If you load plain or coated lead the FCD is probably a bad idea, but it works well with plated bullets for me.

 

[JO JO]

If you find that plated are not working for you try Acme’s coated bullets I use them in my 44 they shoot well , no smoke are leading issues and accuracy is good for me,
Just another option

 

[Walkalong]

I like the FCD better simply because of the ease of adjustment.

That is one smart thing Lee did, simply twist the top instead of loosening the lock ring and moving the die body up and down.

 

[Toprudder]

Just an FYI, if you use Zero bullets (or Hornady) in 44mag, the regular FCD will probably not work due to the carbide resizing ring. They are ~0.430-0.431 diameter, and the resizing ring will try to swage them down. That is one reason I use the collet style crimper, it does not have a resizing ring.