kel-tec su-16ca vs ruger mini-30?

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Doggieman

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Hi, I've seen a couple of threads on this but nothing all that recently.

I'm in California first off, so I can't get an AR or AK.

I like the 7.62 round better than the 5.56. Not really here to discuss the merits of each, but suffice it to say the thought of a bullet needing to fragment to work right makes me a little nervous. But I like the takedown ability of the Kel-Tec more than the Mini. And I hear minis are inaccurate. Though somebody just told me that the new ones (post 2005?) are better. Both would be mid-$600s where I live, maybe the Mini would be $30 more or so.

So:

Kel-Tec pros:
-light weight
-collapsible
-AR mags usable
-fairly reliable?
-threaded barrel for muzzle brake

Kel-tec cons:
-5.56mm
-I hear the mags can fall from the stock storage area
-Plastic construction might be lame after a few years


Mini-30 pros:
-7.62mm
-reliable
-lots of mods/accessories avail.

Mini-30 cons:
-historically inaccurate
-non-foldable
->5 round mags hard to find
-Bill Ruger

Any thoughts that would add to this? If Kel-tec had an SU-16CA in .308 or 7.62 x 39 I'd snap it up in a second.
 
I guess I should also say what it's going to be used for:

Mostly a SHTF rifle and a training weapon. Should be able to take a deer and/or a person at 100 yards, with maybe a red-dot sight or a low power scope. I'd like something fairly accurate but also something that could pump out a lot of lead at close range. Generally an assault rifle I guess.
 
Doggieman,

Since you have expressed your uses/expectations of the rifle, I think I can add an opinion now.

Disclaimer: I don't have a lot experience with a Mini-30 and none with the Kel-tec.

However, it sounds like you'd do better with a rifle chambered in 7.62x39, and therefore the Mini-30.

You'll get endless debate on this point, and I may be starting a debate by saying this, but I personally would not use a 5.56 to shoot a deer-sized animal. Many states have laws against using calibers as small as 5.56 on deer, and I don't think that is by accident. While many will say you CAN kill a deer with a 223, I don't necessarily think you SHOULD. An added chance of an inhumane shot occurs with lower calibered and lighter grains. I base this on my experiences as a deer hunter for the last 28 years and being surrounded by deer hunters all my life.


John
 
the deer/other fairly large animal hunting would be in a time of need only.. not for sport. SHTF times you know.
 
the deer/other fairly large animal hunting would be in a time of need only.. not for sport. SHTF times you know.
Click to expand...


Then caliber becomes less of a factor. Both will do the job. 5.56 would probably have a better trajectory if you needed a longer shot, however.

I can see an advantage to using a rifle that uses standard AR magazines.


However... the comparing the merits of these two rifles is beyond the scope of my knowledge or experience-- having practically none with either platform.

I'll bow out and let those with more experience take over.

Good luck with it, my friend!


BTW... I don't know a lot about CA laws, but is a M1A allowed? Or is that out of your price range? If that were allowed, it would be my choice, money not being a factor.


John
 
I like the SU16 --nicer shooter, I like the 223 round and mags are more readily available. I have shot the mini 30 more & it is a nice rifle but I just prefer the kel tec.
 
You need to tell us what you want the rifle for.

There are other choices: Saiga, SKS, M1 carbine, Garand, M1A, neutered AR, etc. You can use the search function for "CA assault rifle". This question comes up quite often.
 
And as a Californian myself, I can say you CAN get a AR or AK. You either need to A: fix the magazine and load by scissoring the upper and lower halves, B: going with a traditional rifle grip or gripless instead of a PG and no other evil features, or C: having all the "evil features" you want such as a telescoping stock, pistol grip, foregrip, etc. but using a "bullet button" which is basically a method of making the mag release inaccessible with your hands but still operable by using a bullet tip or any other tool.

As for which one, I own a SU-16CA myself, if you get one, the bipod/handguard is crap, replace it with the foreend. The big advantage I can see over the Mini-30 is that it uses AR-15 magazines. Last week I was blasting away with a friend's 20 and 40 rounder AR magazines. From what I've seen reliable aftermarket larger capacity magazines is both expensive and difficult to do (Usually the Ruger factory mags are the most reliable but they have a tendency to market their higher caps to only LEO), but thats the standard fair for the Mini-14 as well.
 
You can do an OLL, off list lower AR, in CA. I was/am in the same quandry and found that I can bulid an OLL for around 125.00 more than the SU. AR: More options, set-ups, and reportedly more accurate that the SU.
Calguns.net has ALL the info needed to do a CA legal AR build.
Ktog.org is great for the SU.

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=68510524
This one has been listed 3 times without selling.
 
Doggieman youve basically just decribed the need for an SKS, the california special! Ive got an OLL AR also, but the SKS with aftermarket stock is en excellent choice. For the price you mentioned you can get 3.
 
I have never even seen the Kel-tek , but would still buy it in the blind over the mini 30 . I do agree with davo that all things being equal i would go with an sks myself since among the 5 i now own there isnt a bad one .
 
can somebody point me to the specifics of the off-list lowers in CA? I'm still not sure how that could legally work. And I'm a lawyer. :eek:

Thx!
 
For the OLL you'll find everything you need on Calguns. Cold War Shooters in Upland is great and can supply everything as can Gunrunners in Upland.

I have a couple OLL and an SU16CA. The Keltech is very fun, and once you replace the troublesome extractor very reliable. I think it's more accurate then any of the Mini14s I've fired. Do not EVER understate the advantage of using AR mags - they all seem to work well as opposed to the endless BS Ruger owners have to deal with if you use anything but a Ruger mag.

Get the Kel Tech if you choose not to mess with the OLL - throw the bipod away and put the compact forend on, replace the extractor with the bushmaster, and have a BLAST.

Jeff
 
ha ha

Ok now I get it. You buy a lower that's not yet listed as an AW, and since it's just the lower, it doesn't have any other "bad" parts like a pistol grip and therefore can't be classified as an AW by description. You sit on it until the DOJ gets it declared an AW, then you register it as an AW. Then you can attach all the "bad" parts to it because it's already registered as an AW.

Verrry clever! But too much damn work for me. I just want a gun I can go out and shoot.
 
ha ha

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok now I get it. You buy a lower that's not yet listed as an AW, and since it's just the lower, it doesn't have any other "bad" parts like a pistol grip and therefore can't be classified as an AW by description. You sit on it until the DOJ gets it declared an AW, then you register it as an AW. Then you can attach all the "bad" parts to it because it's already registered as an AW.

Verrry clever! But too much damn work for me. I just want a gun I can go out and shoot.


---------------------

No - you didn't spend enough time reading the site. You can build and shoot a rifle as long as it meets the legal requirements. Both mine are built without pistol grips, one has a custom stock and the other the Monsterman grip. Mine use detachable magazines.

If you want the pistol grip you can build it with a magazine lock to prevent you from dropping the magazine (you load through the top like a Fab10).

The SU16CA is much easier to deal with as and probably your best bet - or an old M1 Carbine which is too much fun to shoot.
 
No - you didn't spend enough time reading the site. You can build and shoot a rifle as long as it meets the legal requirements. Both mine are built without pistol grips, one has a custom stock and the other the Monsterman grip. Mine use detachable magazines.

If you want the pistol grip you can build it with a magazine lock to prevent you from dropping the magazine (you load through the top like a Fab10).
Click to expand...

Yeah I got that.. but.. again just too much work, you know? Then I have sort of an AR half-breed while I'm waiting for the DOJ to get around to banning my particular lower. I wonder how many folks, once they get the lower, then write to the DOJ admonishing it to ban theirs. :p :eek:
 
Basically your options are:
A. use a Bullet Button which takes a bullet tip to release the mag, DOJ considers a bullet to be a tool, and you can have collapsing stocks, flash hiders, pistol grips, etc.
B. Use a Monster Man type grip, ie; non-pistol grip, no flash hiders, fixed stocks, and drop the mags as normal.
The Bullet Button seems to be the most common CA legal build.
Neither can have over 10 rounds unless you have hi-cap mags prior to 2000.

Then I have sort of an AR half-breed while I'm waiting for the DOJ to get around to banning my particular lower
Click to expand...
Doubtful it will ever happen. That would allow the use of any and all "evil" features. With SB23 in place the DOJ can control the build to some extent.

Check out this site, http://ktog.org/vbulletin/ for good stuff on the SU.
 
How about these?

evolution.jpg

Volquartsen Evolution
Guns Magazine Article

JXRS521_RH_RX4_Storm_L.jpg

Beretta RX4

001qp3.jpg

Remington 7615 Ranch Rifle (Pump)
 
KELTEC vs MINI 30

I'm in Ca. too, a friend owns a keltec. The Keltec is a toy the, Mini is a rifle. Look in the Ca. Boards such as calguns.net, keltec's are going for cheap.
Bill
 
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