Which is more accurate: Kel-Tec SU-16CA or Marlin 1894C?

[Sprout]

I'm thinking about getting a just-for fun, all around rifle. Following Col. Whelen's advice, I'm wondering which rifle is more accurate, a Kel-Tec SU-16CA in .223 or a Marlin 1894C in .357? I already have a .22, a TC Classic, and I'm looking to enter the centerfire realm. I'm looking to shoot cans out to 100 yards and paper/steel as far beyond that as the rifle will go. Any advice as to either choice, or any suggestions for a CA alternative, would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[carpediem]

My guess is the Su16 will have the edge in practical accuracy because it has better - IMHO - sights and is self-loading (no need to operate lever). YMMV

 

[doc tc]

an "all-around" rifle should probably not be an autoloader, for any number of practical reasons, IMHO.

although a .223 is way fun and so forth it is definitely not an "all-around" caliber if "all-around" includes hunting deer-sized game. a .357 isn't an "all-around" caliber either, though I would argue that a lever gun in .44 mag could fit that bill. revolver cartridges are revolver cartridges but why go with half a round when a full one is offered? the recoil difference between the .357 and the .44 is marginally greater for the .44 but the performance is an order of magnitude greater.

ammo costs should be considered also. and not just the cost of a single round. an autoloader will cost you more money in ammo even though the unit cost of one round is cheaper; you pull the trigger a lot more and it adds up. and you can reload enough rounds for a lever in an hour to supply a day's shooting; with the autoloader you'll likely just burn import ammo, leaving the cases all over the ground and that's a mess.

all that being said, your requirements for an "all-around" rifle are likely different than mine and so you should get what you want and be happy with it. but I would recommend that you shy away from an autoloader unless what you are really after is a "fun gun" and strafing the geography is what makes you smile. or not. it's all about personal preference.

by the way, my 336 30-30 is my all-time favorite "all-around" rifle. it is functional, reliable, safe, handsome and feels good in the hand in the woods.

some folks will cite autoloader rate of fire and other foolishness as important issues when selecting a rifle and many will claim that the lever gun just can't hang in the 21st century. that's a load of bull.

get a rifle you will be proud to own. one made out of steel and wood. leave the plastic to the wannabees.

doc

 

[ChristopherG]

I have both. My Marlin 1894c is more accurate than my SU16--though that's with handloaded ammo and improved sights (receiver-mounted aperature rear sight). I've shot groups closer to 1" than 2", while the SU is a 3-4" gun at this point (though I Haven't started handloading for that one yet).

 

[Stiletto Null]

Geez...Marlin 1894(C) vs. SU-16CA...flip a coin.

Either will be decently accurate. Either will have enough fire rate and capacity for any moderately likely "social" situation.

 

[115grfmj]

1894c

great accuracy for a short carbine (mine will do 2-3inches at 100 yds with a my peep sight) much more with scope and bench. All around will do everything from hd duty to squirrels, rabbits, to deer up to 150yds. All
with only changing the ammo (ie .38 to .357's)

 

[RNB65]

Take a look at the CZ 527 Carbine in either .223 or 7.62x39. It's a great choice as an all-around rifle.

 

[Stiletto Null]

Gripe: in .223, it has a 1:12" barrel. CZ says you're OK with NATO-spec cartridges, but that doesn't help any if they're just going to keyhole in flight.

 

[Nhsport]

Both are going to be great fun guns. The Marlin is something you can shoot for about ever and still hand down to your kid / grand kid . The Kel -Tec when it is 20 years old ?

 

[No_Brakes23]

Nhsport, I doubt I will hand down the KelTec. I look at the Nylon 77 my dad gave me, and it isn't too bad, but it also doesn't shoot high-power centerfire rounds, either.

I bought it for use, and as an AR-sustitute. If it isn't around in 20 years, I don't care.

I am having a hard time believing that a handgun round is more accurate than a rifle round, (Though I have seen my dad pull some amazing groups at 100 with his model 28). How about 200 and 300 yards?

At any rate, I look at it as more of an apples and oranges kind of thing. I like both rifles, but I would buy them for entirely different reasons.

Oh and try toting that Tupperifle to your next SASS match and see what they say Guess that's one more thing the Levergun can do that the KT can't.

 

[kentucky_smith]

Gripe: in .223, it has a 1:12" barrel. CZ says you're OK with NATO-spec cartridges, but that doesn't help any if they're just going to keyhole in flight.

CZ lists their 527 .223 with a 1:9 twist.

 

[Stiletto Null]

They do? I thought it was only the Varmint Kevlar that came in 1:9".

 

[Sprout]

Thanks everybody. If I got a bolt, or I should say when I get a bolt, it will probably be a left-handed .308. Dang eye dominance.

It sounds like those with experience with both rifles think the lever has the accuracy edge (thanks ChristopherG), although, like No_Brakes23, I'm surprised that a pistol caliber carbine would be more accurate than a .223.

Thanks again.

 

[Stiletto Null]

Depends on the ammo, really. I've heard of plenty of people getting 1~1.5 MOA results out of the SU-16C type rifles.

 

[ChristopherG]

I hasten to agree; it could be that there's a sweet spot for ammo in the SU16, and I just haven't found it yet. I haven't fed it handloads yet, and lood forward to seeing if I can't tighten things up a bit when I do.

They're both fun guns, but I have to admit I had the lever first, and would do that way again.

 

[3006mv]

I own all three of the models mentioned, the CZ 527 w/ 1:12 has never key-holed w/ reloaded or factory 55 gr bullets. The Marlin is great w/ 158 gr lead or copper just as accurate as my SU16CA. It depends on exactly what you plan on doing w/ it. I like the .357 magnum personally b/c it is fun to reload that ammo w/ a lot of different weights and it is quick and accurate for hunting or plinking. The only rifle w/ sights is the CZ but it also has iron sights which aren't the best.

 

[ChristopherG]

The only rifle w/ sights is the CZ but it also has iron sights which aren't the best.

Say what? Both the SU, in all its avatars, and the 1894c have sights. They can be improved (esp. the Marlin's), but they're there.

 

[Stiletto Null]

1:12 has never key-holed w/ reloaded or factory 55 gr bullets

Well of course not, 1:12" is plenty for 55gr.

But it won't reliably stabilize 62gr and heavier.

 

[Alvin in AZ]

I don't know how to quote a post. I didn't find a quote button.

I like what Nhsport said about buying something worth keeping, that you can hand down. That's what my grandfather did evertime he had a grandson he'd buy himself a new gun. I got a W94 30-30.

That's a good one for a lefty the W94 don't care which handed you are it'll drop them empties right on your noggin, either handed.

I shot a -lot- of jackrabbits with that thing and it was more fun and cheaper to shoot than a 22 mag. 110gr round nose 30M1 carbine bullets going 2200fps that's a couple hundred fps faster than a M1carbine shoots 'em.

Like 115grfmj said you can switch loads. I don't know if I were to own one whether I'd ever shoot 38's or just load down the 357 brass. I'd have to experiment and find out what difference it made then decide?

Alvin in AZ