Kel-Tec Su-16CA

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Just so we're clear:

The initial poster asked for input on his decision to purchase a Kel-Tec rifle.

I offered my opinion that the M1A is a better choice.

I'm sure the Kel-Tec is a fine rifle (and based on all accounts I've read, it is) and in fact I've considered buying one myself!

I simply feel that the M1A is superior to the KelTec in practically every respect, and it is my opinion, since the author asked for it, is that he should save his money and buy an M1A.

But if he decides to get a Kel-Tec, I applaud his decision and only ask that he lets me put a few rounds through it at the range. :)

I'm in no way trying to "bash" the Kel-Tec; I'm merely making a suggestion for what I think is a better purchase, for reasons I've already stated. :)
 
From my post above:

Beethoven said:

- The M1A is a war-proven, real honest-to-God War/Battle Rifle.

- It is also a great range toy, in addition to being a real war weapon.

- Spare parts, accessories, etc. are very plentiful, as is general knowledge, armorer's manuals, etc. Highly doubt an armorer's manual exists for the Kel-Tec.

- The history of the M1A as a real battle rifle.

- M1A is much more customizable. Want a wood stock? Done. Synthetic? Here you go. Paint it any way you want? Go for it! Want to accurize it for competitions? Ok! Standard barrel length? Great! Shorter bbl for easier handling? Done! Mount a scope/optic on it? Sure! Want a REAL bipod? Slap on a Harris!

Don't think you can do any of that with the Kel-Tec.


From all I've read the KelTec seems to be a fine gun, though it seems prudent to limit it to "range toy" status seeing as how its never been proven in any sort of a combat situation and is such a new firearm.

If you are OK with that and don't care much whether you own a true SHTF/battle rifle, get the Kel-Tec.

Otherwise, definitely get the M1A. It is the best of both worlds: a real weapon that also happens to be fun on the range.

Surplus ammo is about the same cost for .308 and .223. .223 is probably going to be what, $20-40 cheaper per 1K rounds? Big deal......

That's my opinion, since you asked for it. :)

Keep us posted on what you decide and enjoy it!:D
 
Beethoven said:
Just so we're clear:

The initial poster asked for input on his decision to purchase a Kel-Tec rifle.

I offered my opinion that the M1A is a better choice.

I'm sure the Kel-Tec is a fine rifle (and based on all accounts I've read, it is) and in fact I've considered buying one myself!

I simply feel that the M1A is superior to the KelTec in practically every respect, and it is my opinion, since the author asked for it, is that he should save his money and buy an M1A.

But if he decides to get a Kel-Tec, I applaud his decision and only ask that he lets me put a few rounds through it at the range. :)

I'm in no way trying to "bash" the Kel-Tec; I'm merely making a suggestion for what I think is a better purchase, for reasons I've already stated. :)

Then tell me how its better. The Kel-tec is just as accurate, its lighter, cheaper, FAR more corrosion resistant. When is the last time anyone needed to buttstroke somone, so please lets not bring that into the fray.
 
KaceCoyote said:
Then tell me how its better. The Kel-tec is just as accurate, its lighter, cheaper, FAR more corrosion resistant. When is the last time anyone needed to buttstroke somone, so please lets not bring that into the fray.



Does your computer not have an "up" arrow??? ;)
 
Beethoven said:
From my post above:


Wanna mount optics on an SU-16? Go ahead theres a weaver rail right there. You can replace the handguards on the A model with a quad rail RIS, it folds for easy storage. Kel-tec has one of the finest customer service in the business, and its a NIB rifle so spare parts isnt a huge deal. Nevermind I can buy anypart I want for them. Already the aftermarket is beginning to form for the SU-16.
 
KaceCoyote said:
You can replace the handguards on the A model with a quad rail RIS, it folds for easy storage.

Yes, but is that setup CA legal??


Kel-tec has one of the finest customer service in the business, and its a NIB rifle so spare parts isnt a huge deal.

Springfield has excellent customer service as well as a lifetime warranty and all things break, even new guns. ;)


Nevermind I can buy anypart I want for them. Already the aftermarket is beginning to form for the SU-16.

But there is no comparing the accessories/part market for the KelTec to the M1A, you can agree on this, right?

What about accurizing?

Customization?

Changing barrel lengths?
 
Beethoven said:
Yes, but is that setup CA legal??

Does the CA government forbid accessory rails now?


Springfield has excellent customer service as well as a lifetime warranty and all things break, even new guns. ;)


sure do

But there is no comparing the accessories/part market for the KelTec to the M1A, you can agree on this, right?
Nope I cant. The SU comes FACTORY with a weaver rail ontop.
What about accurizing?
There are already two being worked up to become sub MOA. Mine is knocking on the door to becoming sub-moa.
Customization?
Almost as flexible as an AR
Changing barrel lengths?

The SU is as much as a rifle twice its cost. You dont even OWN an SU, I'm quite familar with both rifles and have owned both.

EDIT: Two barrel lenghts are available now, Kel-tec is supposedly working on a 20+ barrel already.
 
I have a SU-16A and i hate the bipod I would get a M1A over that in a heart beat you have the option for longer barrels you can get a better bipod for it plus you can adapt it for long distance shooting. Also that plastic around the handgaurd on the SU-16 is mighty thin and heats up on a hot california day pretty quickly after about 60 rounds or so.
 
Really apples and oranges between those two rifles. Both are semis and mag fed, not alot more in common other than that. He asked about a Kel-tec, you could also tell him to go buy an SKS, thats at least a little closer in comparison, or following the m1a route, tell him to move and buy a .50 BMG!:rolleyes:
I think the Kel-tec is very cool and a nice rifle, I'd like one day, love the way they fold down and take a common cheap magazine and a cheap caliber. I wanted a good semi so I went with a Saiga in 7.62x39 because the ammo was slightly cheaper and the gun was $20 or so cheaper than the .223 variant and the total cost of the gun was $220...because I am on a tight budget I went with the cheapest quality gun I could get. If I was in Cali I'd be looking at an SKS probably, and then the Kel-tec.
 
Unfortunately, I am on a limited budget, so the M1 is way out of my range. I could buy the SU16 and 10 clips with all the accessories I need for the cost of one M1.


I'll also be looking at a SKS, and possibly a mini-14.

I'll admit it, A lot of the reason I like the SU so much is the fact that it looks like an AR-15, without the pistol grip. Obviously, if I had the option, I'd get an AR-15 style rifle and just be done with it. But I don't have that option.

The availability and cost of .223 and mags for the SU, coupled with the looks and feel of an AR (that stock bipod will be gone the day I get the rifle, as I'm buying the accessory forend), not to mention the fact that it has stellar reviews, and can be had for well under 600 dollars... You see my point. The SKS is really the only other attractive option.


Thanks for the input guys.
 
brokendreams said:
Unfortunately, I am on a limited budget, so the M1 is way out of my range. I could buy the SU16 and 10 clips with all the accessories I need for the cost of one M1.


I'll also be looking at a SKS, and possibly a mini-14.

I'll admit it, A lot of the reason I like the SU so much is the fact that it looks like an AR-15, without the pistol grip. Obviously, if I had the option, I'd get an AR-15 style rifle and just be done with it. But I don't have that option.

The availability and cost of .223 and mags for the SU, coupled with the looks and feel of an AR (that stock bipod will be gone the day I get the rifle, as I'm buying the accessory forend), not to mention the fact that it has stellar reviews, and can be had for well under 600 dollars... You see my point. The SKS is really the only other attractive option.


Thanks for the input guys.

i would do the kel tec way before the sks or mini. not saying that ether are bad guns, it just seems the kel tec is accurate and is prety functional too. but thats just my opinion!
 
Comparing the SU-16CA to an M1A is like comparing a Corvette to a Ferrari.

And just like the latter comparison, I am certain the more expensive one is better, but not enough to justify the cost.

Also the fact that you are comparing .308 to .223 makes it a bit more apple/orangey.

If I want to move up to a .308, I'd rather get a Cali-legal FAL, as then I can at least get a pistol grip. And if I ever move or the law changes I can swap a part or two and have a real FAL.

Or a Garand.

The M1A is a fine rifle, it just ain't my cup of tea, and for almost $2k it REALLY isn't my cup of tea.

I think for the price, the SKS is better than the SU-16CA, and the Yugos are so cheap that you can go ahead and get that SU-16CA a little later, too. (That's what I am doing.)
 
Here in Texas we have choices, and I chose an SU16A for my .223, I have a AR lower with a .50 Beowulf upper on it, and an FN49 instead of a M1.

For a .223 the SU is a good gun for the money, AR's are normally heavier than I think a .223 should be and twice the price. The SU is the right weight, uses AR mags, accurate enough, shoots cheap ammo. The bipod sucks on mine, changes POI by a huge amount when used, so I don't use it. Don't go the Mall Ninja route with it, lights, lasers, vertical front grips, ok maybe a light. All that does is make it a heavy pig of a gun.

I'll admit to doing more than I should to mine, I got a new Nikon 3-9 scope at Walmart last weekend for $80 on clearance. I pulled my red dot and put the scope on the SU. I mean come on, for 80 bucks it's ok to do.
 
Is the new Remington 7600 that accepts AR mags avaiable for sale in CA?

Its a pump action, but it has that black rifle look to it. I've never owned one, but I've always had an itch for a 7600 model.
 
cnemeth said:
Is the new Remington 7600 that accepts AR mags avaiable for sale in CA?

Its a pump action, but it has that black rifle look to it. I've never owned one, but I've always had an itch for a 7600 model.


Its more expensive than the SU, and the pump thing is REALLY take it or leave it. I've never understood the pump action rifle thing.
 
I did not get su-16 cause you can't change out the barrel without wrecking the receiver, or that is what I understood. 10 to 15 k rounds and the rifle is shot.
 
dacat said:
I did not get su-16 cause you can't change out the barrel without wrecking the receiver, or that is what I understood. 10 to 15 k rounds and the rifle is shot.


Really?

If that's true, then I'll never buy one.
 
KaceCoyote said:
Theres a special tool thats needed, send it to kel-tec and for a 20 dollar labor charge they'll swap barrels(you can specify the lenght ya want).



Oh.
 
I have several pre-ban AR-15's, M1A's, M1 Carbines, and M1 Garands. I'm buying the Kel-Tec because it is LIGHT, and IT FOLDS, and therefore I can stick it in my day pack with a couple of magazines for when I hike with the Sierra Club :what: :eek: . I can't do that with any of the other semi's.
 
You actually can just get an off list AR here in california, you just can't put a pistol grip or flash hider on it.

you can have them sitting right next to it however. you can build one yourself out of used parts for about the same price as a SU16
 
Keep things in perspective

First, I have an SU-16ca and I like it. My girlfriend also likes it because it is light and easier for her to handle than a larger heavy main-battle-rifle. For any weapon I purchase for home-defense, I have to keep my GF in mind because she has just as much need to be able to use it as I do. I might not be home when SHTF.

If I were a soldier and had to deploy to iraq would I want an SU-16ca over some other weapon system? Probably not. However, an SU-16ca in your hands today definitely beats an M1a that you are still saving for if a riot breaks out this afternoon. Some old beater mosin-nagant is better than your bare fists.

I get a kick out of these threads that stress rifle-a is better than rifle-b because it is combat proven, has a better war record, etc, etc... by those standards we should all then agree that the M16 and the 5.56 round are the best rifles on the planet :)

Another thing to keep in mind is that unless you are buying milsurps or CMP garands, all the rifles available to us are civilian copies of military designs. They are not necessarily subject to the same quality control, inspection, or manufacturing processes that the rifles produced for the military are. Does the commercial M-1A truly match a USGI M-14 in quality of materials, production? Does it truly match the M-14 reliability? You can point to the 1911 pistols to see how modern manufacturing processes, MIM internal parts, and the drive for profits turned a combat proven design into a finicky pistol that has to be custom-tuned to get "bet-your-life-on-it" reliability.

Realistically, unless you are military or law-enforcement, the likelyhood of any of us needing to fire our weapons in anger is probably slim. With all that was fubar in NO after Katrina, how many stories emerged documenting armed citizens actually firing their weapons? I don't recall any. Not saying it didn't happen... but it didn't happen enough for the media to pick up and run with it.

If I ever need to use my rifles in anger, I expect it to be defending my home. If its and intruder in the middle of the night I'll be grabbing a shotgun. The only time I expect to use my rifle (other than at the range) is to guard my property in the event of riots or the break down of law and order after a natural disaster.... in those conditions, the best rifle to have is the one in your hands. Specifically one that you are familiar with and have trained with.

You need to shoot it enough to become familiar with how it shoots, what its quirks are. You need to be able to clear malfunctions quickly. You need to be able to properly clean and maintain your weapon. You need to have put enough rounds down range to be confident in your individual weapon's reliability. You need to be confident in your magazines' reliablity. A rifle that is more economical to shoot and train with has a clear advantage over something that is more expensive to purchase and more expensive to feed. For the cost of an M1A, I can buy an SU-16 and several thousand rounds of ammuntion to train with.
 
kel tec su

Just get it and have fun. If some day you have some spare coin and you feel the need to carry a rifle twice the weight check uot the CMP program through the NRA.


Nick


Know whats beyond your target!
 
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