I think some people on this forum tend to forget that money is not as plentiful for some as it is for others. I've driven cars that didn't cost $1600 and I would have a hard time justifying spending that much on a rifle. While it's fine to argue that a $1600 rifle is better than one that costs 1/4 as much its really comparing apples to oranges. In it's price range the SU-16 seems like a heck of a rifle. The fact that it accepts AR mags is a big plus and the money you save means you can still feed the kids for a few more months!
Kel-Tec Su-16CA
- Thread starter brokendreams
- Start date
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silverlance
Member
eh
bear in mind these are my personal opinions, and since the OP asked for opinions, here are mine (regrettable to many, i'm sure).
M1A SOCOM I & II: these are POS. 308 in a 16" barrel? that's a gun that NEEDS a longer barrel; the shorter one really reduces the effectiveness of the 308. and have you lifted that sucker? weighs a TON. now add on top of that some doodad on the foreend, some doodad on the top rail... a full 20rnd mag... and you now are lugging about a concrete block. i'm fairly muscular, and I was terribly repulsed by the socom. oh, and it ain't no tactical rifle either, despite what they want you to believe, given that the mags require two hands to change (and break profile).
M1A: Good battle rifles. I think they're awesome. Still weighs a ton. Don't forget that this rifle was designed for troops that have the ability to call in artillery, airstrikes... tank support, lmg support... weight is not so much an issue when you have five hundred men backing you up in a slow and steady advance. I would not relish carting this around in a disaster, especially since the unmistakable shape of the gun would quickly tell everybody around that i'm a good person to rob for my gun. It's also, like the socom, abominably expensive. the body armor on you is better than the zero-g suit that you've got on layaway...
cal-fal: the "dust cover" guns are high suspect imho. however.. if you are lucky enough to get a REAL fal in CALI, then have it pinned so that the mag is non-detachable, and you're lucky enough to have one of those belgian fals with the stripper guide integrated, you have quite a fine weapon (or even if you have a fal modified to have the guide). a friend of mine at burro canyon has one of thse. i had never fired a fal in my life before. i picked it up... and 4 out of 5 shots killed bowling pins set at 100yds. that's pretty good (for me at any rate)
cal-ar: YUCK. unless you plan on taking that cal-ar home and (illegally) removing the retaining pin so you now have a full ar in the safe. in which case you have one of the finest battle guns in the world.
cal-ak: yuck, and quite possibly an unsafe gun as well. aks weren't designed to fire with the top exposed like that.
mas-49: grenade launcher is integrated. cant' remove it. Destructive device under ca law. can't have one. (darn)
sks: stricty a minute of big bad wolf at 100 yards gun. mediocre accuracy, not light, non-detach mag (but very reliable with stripper clips), pretty crappy sights. yet still - a reliable gun, a decent and common fighting round, acceptable in size, and heck, you have that bayonet if things really get hairy. it's also cheap enough that you can buy one for your girl or kid. bear in mind that to me the sks m59/66 is NOT under this opinion... they are far too heavy and long. but still, better than a stick and a rock. and sharing the stick.
cz-52 she: basically an sks. if 7x45 were more plentiful, i'd say this is a better sks.
that's some of my opinion. ok, now flame away, i like it hot in here.. =)
bear in mind these are my personal opinions, and since the OP asked for opinions, here are mine (regrettable to many, i'm sure).
M1A SOCOM I & II: these are POS. 308 in a 16" barrel? that's a gun that NEEDS a longer barrel; the shorter one really reduces the effectiveness of the 308. and have you lifted that sucker? weighs a TON. now add on top of that some doodad on the foreend, some doodad on the top rail... a full 20rnd mag... and you now are lugging about a concrete block. i'm fairly muscular, and I was terribly repulsed by the socom. oh, and it ain't no tactical rifle either, despite what they want you to believe, given that the mags require two hands to change (and break profile).
M1A: Good battle rifles. I think they're awesome. Still weighs a ton. Don't forget that this rifle was designed for troops that have the ability to call in artillery, airstrikes... tank support, lmg support... weight is not so much an issue when you have five hundred men backing you up in a slow and steady advance. I would not relish carting this around in a disaster, especially since the unmistakable shape of the gun would quickly tell everybody around that i'm a good person to rob for my gun. It's also, like the socom, abominably expensive. the body armor on you is better than the zero-g suit that you've got on layaway...
cal-fal: the "dust cover" guns are high suspect imho. however.. if you are lucky enough to get a REAL fal in CALI, then have it pinned so that the mag is non-detachable, and you're lucky enough to have one of those belgian fals with the stripper guide integrated, you have quite a fine weapon (or even if you have a fal modified to have the guide). a friend of mine at burro canyon has one of thse. i had never fired a fal in my life before. i picked it up... and 4 out of 5 shots killed bowling pins set at 100yds. that's pretty good (for me at any rate)
cal-ar: YUCK. unless you plan on taking that cal-ar home and (illegally) removing the retaining pin so you now have a full ar in the safe. in which case you have one of the finest battle guns in the world.
cal-ak: yuck, and quite possibly an unsafe gun as well. aks weren't designed to fire with the top exposed like that.
mas-49: grenade launcher is integrated. cant' remove it. Destructive device under ca law. can't have one. (darn)
sks: stricty a minute of big bad wolf at 100 yards gun. mediocre accuracy, not light, non-detach mag (but very reliable with stripper clips), pretty crappy sights. yet still - a reliable gun, a decent and common fighting round, acceptable in size, and heck, you have that bayonet if things really get hairy. it's also cheap enough that you can buy one for your girl or kid. bear in mind that to me the sks m59/66 is NOT under this opinion... they are far too heavy and long. but still, better than a stick and a rock. and sharing the stick.
cz-52 she: basically an sks. if 7x45 were more plentiful, i'd say this is a better sks.
that's some of my opinion. ok, now flame away, i like it hot in here.. =)
Larryect
Member
I have a SU-16. I named it Katrina. Fun reliable rifle. Light weight, cheap ammo, soft shooting, folds up. My old eys have trouble seeing a 10" target at 100 yards, But I get hits in the black. Added a BSA Holographic red dot for $50. Even more fun. Slides right off and on the weaver rail. Ordered an M1 Garand from CMP. Two rifles for less than an M1A.
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wayne in boca
Member
Me too.And a Socom is certainly not a POS.And it doesn't weigh a ton.A ton is 2,000 pounds.Field artillery weighs a ton.A Socom 16 is probably the ultimate truck gun.And yes,I have one.And one or more of everything else on the list,except the CZ52/SKS hybrid mutant.
Not to mention that I have heard that they are barrel burners.
I'm confused. The only two California legal AK designs I have seen are ones with a fixed magazine, which requires you to load as you hold the bolt open, and the ones with detachable magazines with the pistol grip removed. Neither one I can gauge is unsafe from a design point of view. I am aware of a California legal AK that Atlantic Arms is selling, but do not know how it operates, is that the one you are referring to?
The MAS-49 is perfectly legal, since it does not have a grenade launcher. The MAS-49/56 is not legal since those ones were produced with a grenade launcher.
rich52us
Member
Good info
I'm also considering the Kel-Tek SU. What about the C model with the skeleton under fold stock that can shoot with the stock folded? Opinions?
I'm also considering the Kel-Tek SU. What about the C model with the skeleton under fold stock that can shoot with the stock folded? Opinions?
Larryect
Member
Seems pretty cool to me. But, I cant buy that one here 
The rifle is a nice shooter, in fact they make a pistol with the same action and caliber. I would think the folding stock would give you a couple more options of using the rifle.
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The rifle is a nice shooter, in fact they make a pistol with the same action and caliber. I would think the folding stock would give you a couple more options of using the rifle.
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rangerruck
Member
I don't have one, but I must say I studied them quite closely thinking about gettin one. Keltec really went to the boards on this one. better front site, fully adjustable rear, able to add your own ar type sites, hollow buttstock, to hold additional mags, uses m16 mags, fires with the stock folded, and very light.
I think it is a little bit of engineering magic, really. don't forget the fold-down bipod legs, either.
I think it is a little bit of engineering magic, really. don't forget the fold-down bipod legs, either.
silverlance
Member
corrections
CZ-52: i used the more common incorrect nomenclature. the proper one is VZ-52, but hardly anyone uses that. search on gunbroker for pics.
MAS 49: i stand corrected. the mas 49 also suffers from low ammo availability.
new addition:
this is a rifle that I REALLY wish i were cheap and plentiful, becuase i really want one:
HAKIM 8mm or RASHID 8mm Egyptian:
Imagine a semi-automatic, very long (nearly 91/30 mosin length) rifle with a 10-20 round detachable magazine and direct gas impingement system (like the AR). IN BLOODY 8MM MAUSER! supposely nearly no recoil due to weight and a very effective and extremely loud muzzle brake.
boy that would be a blast to shoot.
CZ-52: i used the more common incorrect nomenclature. the proper one is VZ-52, but hardly anyone uses that. search on gunbroker for pics.
MAS 49: i stand corrected. the mas 49 also suffers from low ammo availability.
new addition:
this is a rifle that I REALLY wish i were cheap and plentiful, becuase i really want one:
HAKIM 8mm or RASHID 8mm Egyptian:
Imagine a semi-automatic, very long (nearly 91/30 mosin length) rifle with a 10-20 round detachable magazine and direct gas impingement system (like the AR). IN BLOODY 8MM MAUSER! supposely nearly no recoil due to weight and a very effective and extremely loud muzzle brake.
boy that would be a blast to shoot.
1911_Mitch
Member
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2005
- Messages
- 80
Kace-
Sorry for the long delay in response. Finally re-read through this thread.
The mag in my rifle on the first page is a Ram-Line Ar15/Mini-14 combo thermomold. They are no longer being made, but can be picked up on the equipment exchange occassionally.
Also, I have been busy building several CA compliant AR-15's
Sorry for the long delay in response. Finally re-read through this thread.
The mag in my rifle on the first page is a Ram-Line Ar15/Mini-14 combo thermomold. They are no longer being made, but can be picked up on the equipment exchange occassionally.
Also, I have been busy building several CA compliant AR-15's
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