Kel tec Sub CQB the right tool for me?

[Bob01]

Greetings All,

Need a suppressed compact carbine for home defense...ideally under $2K total. After some research and thought - I think the Kel Tec Sub CQB may be the best option?

https://www.keltecweapons.com/firearms/rifles/sub2000-cqb/

I was originally leaning toward picking up a Glock 17 with an MCK pistol brace, and suppressor, but don't want to deal with the hassle if the pistol brace thing becomes NFA. Then was thinking maybe an SBR AR in 300 blackout with a suppressor...but then have to do the dance for the SBR and its already tiresome enough to think about doing the gun trust thing and getting the stamp for the suppressor already.... I've always wanted a Tavor x95 bullpup...but its $2K before suppressor and tax stamp....

If going the Sub CQB route - I would need to do the gun trust thing first, then apply for the suppressor stamp before buying it? Or would I do the gun trust thing, buy it and have the local gun store hold on to it until the paperwork was finished?

Any other options for integrated suppressed compact carbines that are under $2K?

Thanks!,

Bob

 

[sarduy]

No, I don’t think it’s the right thing to do. Get yourself a 10.5-11.5 ar and a brace then a suppressor. If anything you can SBR it later.

Daniel Defense
Bravo Company
Aero Precision

But get yourself a good suppressor. And a flashlight

 

[1942bull]

I would not do it. That is based on personal experience. I certainly am not an expert on the topic but I did once clear buildings in Hue City in 1968. I started using an M16 but quickly relied in my M1911 pistol. I found that the rifle length was an impediment when maneuvering. I could present my pistol on target faster than the M16. Back then we knew nothing about clearing buildings unlike the current team methods where each lead person is backed up. We were basically in one-on-one gunfights. While I preferred the pistol in that mode I certainly would have preferred to have a SBR like those available today. I would have been very happy with an M3, but we did not have that option. If I had to do it over again and could choose my weapons, I would have my Ruger
Security 9 on my belt and Ruger PC Charger in hand. Same caliber in same magazines — very lethal with superb maneuverability. In CQB maneuverability is critical. The SBR provides that along with the lethality needed to prevail. You do not need a rifle cartridge ar fifteen feet to drop an adversary. You need a lethal round that hits where it must to stop the bad guy.

 

[CapnMac]

Well, there are several things here.
You do not need a trust for NFA items (as much) anymore (and it can be complicated for the members of a trust, too).
Based on response times, you want to Efile if at all possible.

Now, KelTec makes fascinating arms, many filling niches that no one else realized were actually niches.
The issue is that KelTec really does not make a great number of these in all the niches they fill, so, the individual arms can be problematic. So, that's neither negative nor positive, it's just KelTec.

Weapons that fold or need deployment to operate introduce variables into already complicated equations.

Room clearance drills are a bear. And not a particularly nice bear. Training for room clearing is very humbling, too.
The weapon used is less important than one's skill with it. I have personal bias in this, and I'll freely admit it--I'm ok using an M4 suppressed (preferably) or not. My number two choice is a MP-5 in a "USN" fixed stock "lower." The only "foldy" thing I've taken through a shoot house was a Sterling SMG.

 

[GEM]

I've seen failures in Kel-tec arms such that I would not trust them for a primary weapon. Both handguns and long arms failed in a way to make them unusable. Not to say that other guns won't but an anecdote for the mill.

 

[STI]

No way KT brand of anything

 

[Gordon]

I didn't know such a thing existed and indeed looks very well thought out. It looks like a $1500 unit to me . I went thru the Gunsite Funhouse a few times in my life time, but had my own shoot house for about 10 years in an old adobe ruin on a large ranch and used discarded store mannequins as targets. We found that Short 14" barreled shot guns , especially semi autos, were devastating for busting into a room. We did NOT have FA weapons available in Calif , of course. I have shot most of them and have some training on the MP5SD and it may be the bomb for such purposes. During this period I did have a HK93 with telastock and it was too loud indoors with a huge fireball with 16" barrel, today have 10.5" M4 ish but with Noveske Flaming Pigs ect. that make a difference indoors.. The SG how ever is devastating with large buckshot and extremely quick to get on target at indoor ranges.

 

[MedWheeler]

1942Bull writes:

If I had to do it over again and could choose my weapons, I would have my Ruger
Security 9 on my belt and Ruger PC Charger in hand. Same caliber in same magazines — very lethal with superb maneuverability.

That is a VERY respectable combination, especially for the points and purpose listed.

 

[Catshooter]

Most Kel-Tecs have a service life of ~7,000 rounds (according to one of their videos on their site) so I would be very reluctant to spend the NFA tax money on something with such a short life.


Cat

 

[edwardware]

After some research and thought - I think the Kel Tec. . .

You stopped the research too soon.

KelTec makes fascinating arms, many filling niches that no one else realized were actually niches.

That's putting it nicely.

KelTec is an injection molding company, with an owner who likes designing bargain bin guns. As a place to spend the beer money expecting it to last a few years, it makes perfect sense. They're also great prop guns for low-budget home movies.

For social work? Yeah

 

[CapnMac]

KelTec is an injection molding company, with an owner who likes designing bargain bin guns. As a place to spend the beer money expecting it to last a few years, it makes perfect sense.

That's a shade harsh.
True, but harsh.
They design firearms more to see if they can, than to fill a particular need. Do they test the finished work to see if it will survive being jammed in a backpack, or falling out of a tree stand? Nope.
The RFB is a good example. They focused on making an ambi bullpup used off a bipod on the ground. So, the thing ejects forward.
Did they test for what happens if a cases stop clearing that forward tube? Does not appear they did so very much.
The RDB fits the same sort of thinking. It no longer has a long case ejection path, but is does have a huge opening into the action, so don't drop one in the mud.

 

[Choctaw]

Go with an AR platform.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

Agreed with all the comments on Keltec. They like coming up with new things and pushing the envelope, less so taking the time to smooth out rough edges.

I have a normal Sub-2K.... it's a fun gun and I'm happy with my $450 spent, but it's basically a Hi-Point that folds. The receiver is a screwed-together plastic clamshell.

 

[Rule3]

You stopped the research too soon.

That's putting it nicely.

KelTec is an injection molding company, with an owner who likes designing bargain bin guns. As a place to spend the beer money expecting it to last a few years, it makes perfect sense. They're also great prop guns for low-budget home movies.

For social work? Yeah

This again is a a bit harsh. Their guns are made of Zytel polymer which is as good or better than all the other polymer guns. They are not injection molded plastic as you imply. Are they top of the line? No but they sell a lot of guns and lots of people like them.
I had their 32 and 380 acp and never a problem The 380 was so good that Ruger copied it and made a fortune Just like SW copied Glock and paid a big lawsuit.

But back to the OP question, I think one could get a better set up., JMHO

https://www.dupont.com/products/zytel.html

 

[Skylerbone]

The short easy answer is get to a safe room and let the pros sweep the house once they’ve arrived. They have the gear and training to be effective.

The answer for those who insist on diy is, IMO, a short barreled shotgun. If not that, a 7ish” AR that you could add a suppressor to without being unwieldy, topped with an RDS of some sort. Collapse the stock, add a light and tape switch and go.

I own an option B but I will always opt for option A when possible.

 

[wesmonster]

I have quite a few KT firearms, including a Sub2k, and while I love it for what it is, I would not go with the CQB.
Trigger is terrible, it can be improved with aftermarket parts ( and Kel Tec will swap in MCARBO trigger parts for a fee) but it’s never gonna be good.
I would not spend $$$ to suppress a blowback carbine, period.
Iron sights are terrible, for me and many others, they’re too low, and that metal tube isn’t pleasant. Adding a pad just makes sight alignment worse. A high mounted red dot is fine, but the plastic handguard has a seam right down the upper pic rail, and those halves are not flush. They rise to a slight peak so plan to file it down to make a flat spot for an optic.
Kel Tec customer service is great, but for a SHTF/ HD firearm that you’re spending time & $$$ to stamp it, I think there’s better options. My Scorpion Evo pistol wasn’t much more than my Sub2K and it’s a better host and a more durable platform with tons of aftermarket stuff.

 

[STI]

Been shooting matches most of my life and have seen 1 KT only 1 shot that did not finish it he borrowed another member's carbine to do so, any LE carry them? Military? Not bashing just my experiences and not my choice here.

 

[CapnMac]

Collapse the stock

I understand the logic--but having been through shoot houses, a rigid stock (if, perhaps a shorter LOP one) are preferable to the alternatives.

Your attention is really focused on the objective, and you really want no distractions like is the foldy bit open or closed; or "Why does it keep stabbing me in [body part]?"

Sweeping corners or stairwells that stock can be comforting, rather than hindering. Also, keeping that muzzle out at one's training distance is good for consistency over all. You often wind up "arm-pitting" the stock, but, it's still useful.

 

[STI]

I have an 8" AR in 9mm it is probably the most useful firearm I own, I just shoot matches with it though, the only shoot houses I have experienced I shot a 1911 and FN 12 ga the 2nd one with a Glock 17 & FN 12 ga. I did much better with the 1911 and FN, since we did team room clearing and I used the 8" AR and loved that as fast as it is on target. 2 other shooters also asked to borrow it and did so. Both had no misses. My son will shoot it in our next match he says.

 

[MechAg94]

IMO, the Keltec sub2000 has a bit more felt recoil than most 9mm carbines. The bolt is really heavy. I would try to shoot one of them before committing to the tax stamp registration process.

I recently got a Kalashnikov USA KP-9 and it is a very nice shooter and pretty accurate. Lots of other choices in 9mm carbines. I don't know if integrally suppressed is such a great attribute that you want to ignore better guns.

 

[Phydeaux642]

I love the KelTec hate.

I have a Sub 2000 and like it for what it is and it lives in a computer bag, but for what you want I would go with a Ruger PC Charger or Carbine with Glock adapter and call it good. I would think the total cost would surely be under $2K. Sure, a suppressed HK would be nice but I would think total cost would be somewhere closer to $3.5K.

 

[Choctaw]

I love the KelTec hate.

I have a Sub 2000 and like it for what it is and it lives in a computer bag, but for what you want I would go with a Ruger PC Charger or Carbine with Glock adapter and call it good. I would think the total cost would surely be under $2K. Sure, a suppressed HK would be nice but I would think total cost would be somewhere closer to $3.5K.

Here is my AR-9 in the computer bag in which it lives. Total cost right at $700. Maybe our guns can get together for a play date?

 

[Txhillbilly]

I've got a Sub 2k and a Ruger PCC, both in 40 S&W. I think I have installed every MCarbo part made for the Sub 2k in mine, and it's been a very reliable, accurate, and fun gun to shoot.
As Usual with anything Ruger, the factory trigger sucks, so I swapped it out with a Volquartsen 2.5 lb trigger. Now, it's a very fun and reliable carbine to shoot.
I also built a form1 suppressor to use on both of them, along with loading up some sub-sonic ammo. The only thing that's funner to shoot is a suppressed 22!

 

[MechAg94]

I love the KelTec hate.

I have a Sub 2000 and like it for what it is and it lives in a computer bag, but for what you want I would go with a Ruger PC Charger or Carbine with Glock adapter and call it good. I would think the total cost would surely be under $2K. Sure, a suppressed HK would be nice but I would think total cost would be somewhere closer to $3.5K.

Mine is in a gym bag.

Lots of choices under $2K.