leading and mbc 240 coated BH18 swc 44 mag

[roval]

I've had a 1-2 month old ruger srh and have settled for now on a load of 12.5 gr 800x(lyman range 12-13.5 gr) which ran at about 1300 fps till I finish off my jug but will load down to 12 gr for the next batch.

I knew I had some leading but didn't realize how much till I got a lewis lead remover. Several questions

Has anybody had experience comparing one coated bullet vs the other from different companies regarding leading (sns casting vs mbc for example)which one leads less?

What velocity is this less likely to happen at? Is going to a BH 12 worth trying?

I've made several passes with the lewis lead remover and still see some leading even with before and after treating with lead remover shooters choice. I just gave up since it will just be leaded again next time I use it. Would using jb bore compound with the tool enhance it's effectiveness? kroil before? are other users successful in removing it entirely?

would plain lead with the hard lube be better?

Is the advice to shoot some jacketed bullets afterwards really effective in pushing out the leading?

replies to one or more will be appreciated.

 

[TimSr]

I've been shooting MBC 240gr SWC BRN 18 NON-coated at @1400fps for a very long time in my older 7 1/2" Redhawk, and have never had a leading issue.

Yes, a few bullets that don't lead will clean up pretty good, jacketed or cast bullets that don't lead, according to me, but I expect other opinions to emerge that conflict with mine.

 

[Blue68f100]

If your shooting mouse fart loads the lower 12BHN would be a better choice. I suspect your not driving the harder bullets hard enough for them to seal off. I haven't used x800 so I can not comment as to whether it burns hotter than the ones I use. Some powders have a higher temp when the burn, the cooler burning ones are preferred for lead. But most any will work if you take the time to workup a load. Remember bullet fit to bore/forcing cone is the most important when getting a lead free gun. The harder bullets are beat used in rifles.

 

[Mauser69]

Lewis Lead remover is good, but not the best. Are you using it dry or with the bore wet from some solvent? Any lead removal tool that scrapes the lead off will work best if the bore is DRY (solvent works like a lubricant), so after you use any solvent to help loosen that stuff, run a few dry patches through it before you go to work.

In my experience, the LLR only gets the heavy stuff off the top. The screen is just not pushed down fully into the grooves to get all the rest. Final cleaning works best with wrapping some strips cut from a pure copper scrubbing pad (e.g. Chore Boy) around a stainless steel Tornado bore brush. Make sure you do NOT use copper coated steel scrubbies - test with a magnet. The Hoppe's Tornado brush is steel, but it is made in loops so no sharp ends to scratch anything. It works better than a bronze brush to force the copper strands down into the grooves to remove the last of the lead. The copper wrapped on the brush must fit VERY tight in the bore, and the Tornado brush holds its shape over time. An old bronze cleaning brush will work too, but it gets compressed and ruined fairly fast, requiring more copper scrubbie wrapped around it to compensate.

I have personally found that jacketed bullets do an excellent job of removing mild lead deposits, but I generally need about two cylinders full to do the complete job, not just one or two bullets.

 

[mdi]

In my limited experience and in most of what I've read http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?184-Coatings-and-Alternatives, PCed bullets don't lead. I've cast and PCed mebbe 2,000 bullets, most running around 10-14 BHN, from 125 gr. .357"-.358", .430" 265 gr, to some 30 cal. 170+ gr bullets. I have fired them in my handguns, pistol caliber rifle, and 3 military surplus rifles and never any leading. Some will leave a light fouling, but never needed my Lewis tool to clean up a barrel.

I size my PCed bullets the same as I do for my lead bullets; the same diameter as the cylinder throats on my revolvers, and .002" over groove diameter for my semi-autos and rifles...

 

[Sam1911]

Have you measured your chamber throats?

 

[243winxb]

What velocity is this less likely to happen at?

Its more a pressure issue, if the bullet fit is correct. Try less powder ( 800x) or a slower burn rate like 2400 or H110/W296

 

[Sam1911]

Try less powder or a slower burn rate like 2400 or H110/W296

Woah, that might be an interesting experiment, but you can't back off the charge of H110/296. So it's full tilt or nothing. And a full tilt charge of H110 is going to be MIGHTY tough on a non-jacketed bullet.

 

[243winxb]

Less 800X. H110/W296 max can be reduced 3% I use W296 at 23 gr with a 250 gr home cast for years. Max is 24 gr. but hard on the gun.

 

[Sam1911]

Yes, I'd consider a 3% reduction darned close to "full tilt"!

And I don't think I'd expect good results from a polymer coated bullet. But, like I said, an interesting experiment.

 

[roval]

I used the LLR dry.

I measured the throats with my calipers and it looks like 0.422-.423 varies with my technique

1300 fps is still too slow?

Will try the hoppes brush and chore boy once I get the brush.

Sorry I don't know how to do the quotes to direct the replies.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

For more than you ever wanted to know about powdercoating, the cast boolit site has a forum dedicated to alternative coatings. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?184-Coatings-and-Alternatives

I used the LLR dry.

I measured the throats with my calipers and it looks like 0.422-.423 varies with my technique

1300 fps is still too slow?

Will try the hoppes brush and chore boy once I get the brush.

Sorry I don't know how to do the quotes to direct the replies.

Doing quotes is easy. Start by clicking the quill pen icon on the right of the post you want to quote. Then click the Quote message in reply? box under options in the quick reply box. Type in your message in the response area and click submit reply.

If you want you can preview your post and make modifications there.

 

[Rule3]

H110/Win 296 or 2400 is fine to use with a HARD cast bullet. Have shot many of MBC bullets with it,??

For the OP it is best to get as much lead out before shooting again, any lead left will make future leading easier, Despite claims by every solvent maker there are next to none that actually will remove lead, There is a acid solution for severe leading but I am not going to recommend it especially for a blued gun.

Elbow grease (mechanical removal) is really the only way. The LLR and choreboys work well after that yesm JB bore paste will get the remainder.

 

[243winxb]

Roval- I measured the throats with my calipers and it looks like 0.422-.423 varies with my technique

Use a jacketed bullet to measure. Insert into the front of the cylinder. This should give a better idea of the real throat diameters, as jacketed run from .429" to .430"

 

[snuffy]

And I don't think I'd expect good results from a polymer coated bullet. But, like I said, an interesting experiment.
___________

Well hundreds of folks are coating their bullets with zero leading. Coating does not take the place of proper bullet fit to the cylinder throats or powder choice, but leading is eliminated.

Here we go with the making of another myth. OR at least miss-quoted information. I'm talking about the use of "coated boolits" being thrown around like it means the same thing.

As far as I know MBC,(Missouri Bullets Company), uses Hy-tech coatings. Hy tech is not as good at eliminating leading as a CORRECTLY coated bullet using powdered coatings. Either tumble coated or electro static coated. Then baked for the proper time at the proper temperature. It's a poly plastic that's extremely tough to scrape off. Rifling simply rides over it without cutting through to touch the base lead.



2 .45 bullets recovered from testtube media. Notice how the rifling simply pressed the coating down to ride over it. That was harbor freight red, which is an epoxy based coating. The one on the left was a MP 200 RNFPHP.

 

[roval]

I remeasurered the throats they are 0.427 to 0.428 and one that was 0.4265.

I lost my stash of chore boy since my wife used it for scrubbing something but I got more of the leading out using 2 small strips of lead remover cloth on a jag.

Does anybody sell powder coated bullets or is always dyi. No interest in casting at this time or powder coating myself.

 

[243winxb]

Look like throats are undersize?? Not good for lead. Shoot jacketed.

 

[mdi]

I remeasurered the throats they are 0.427 to 0.428 and one that was 0.4265.

That's too small for a .44. Should be at least .430". What gun are you measuring? Calipers don't work for measuring ID as the jaw shape interferes with exacting measurements. Pin gauges are prolly the best for cylinder throat measuring, and slugging (driving a lead slug through the cylinder) works pretty good. Dropping a bullet in a cylinder don't tell you much and the "push through" method doesn't either, and will really only tells you if the bullet falls through or can be pushed through the cylinder. For shooting lead bullets (and because I want to know critical dimensions of my gun) measuring works best...

 

[Mauser69]

That's too small for a .44. Should be at least .430". What gun are you measuring? Calipers don't work for measuring ID as the jaw shape interferes with exacting measurements. Pin gauges are prolly the best for cylinder throat measuring, and slugging (driving a lead slug through the cylinder) works pretty good. Dropping a bullet in a cylinder don't tell you much and the "push through" method doesn't either, and will really only tells you if the bullet falls through or can be pushed through the cylinder. For shooting lead bullets (and because I want to know critical dimensions of my gun) measuring works best...

I do not particularly agree with most of this statement. Yes, the stated measurements are undersized (if accurate), but quality calipers can easily measure a .430 hole accurately if the operator knows what he is doing.

More importantly, however, is that pushing a bullet through the cylinder throat on the gun it is going to be shot in IS ABSOLUTELY a good test of cylinder dimensions. First, you can measure the diameter of the bullet accurately with a micrometer before the test, verifying that it is sized correctly. Secondly, if that bullet easily pushes through the throat of each cylinder with only slight finger pressure, then you have absolute proof that the cylinder throat is at least as big as the bullet (and therefore larger than the barrel diameter).

And THAT is the main issue with lead bullets and concern about throat sizes - the problem comes when the throat is too small and causes the bullet to be swaged down smaller than the grooves before it gets into the barrel. If the throat is at least as big as the bullet (which should start larger than the barrel groove diameter), then it is impossible for the throat to be causing a problem by being too small.

So accurate measurements are always a good thing to have, but the bullet in the throat test is also an excellent way to double-check that measurement.

 

[roval]

It's a ruger super redhawk . Your right it may be technique related.

Shoot jacketed only is not an option I'd rather clean the leading. Btw I did get it practically all out after I found some choreboy this afternoon.

 

[nettlle]

Wrap the Chore boy around an old brass 22 caliber bore brush so it fits your bore tightly. Give the bore a few swipes with the Chore Boy while cleaning your gun. It will add about 45 seconds to your cleaning time.

 

[Eb1]

Try something like IMR 4227 for your cast bullets. I have never had leading with 2400 or IMR 4227, and I shoot MCB up to 1400 fps out of my 5.5" .44 Mag.
I have also had good luck with Trail Boss for fart loads without leading, and I use the same 18 hardness as I do with IMR 4227 and 2400.

 

[Sam1911]

If your throats are actually undersized (as your measurements indicate) having them reamed to proper size would be the obvious answer. You'll quite like the results!

 

[35 Whelen]

I remeasurered the throats they are 0.427 to 0.428 and one that was 0.4265.

I lost my stash of chore boy since my wife used it for scrubbing something but I got more of the leading out using 2 small strips of lead remover cloth on a jag.

Does anybody sell powder coated bullets or is always dyi. No interest in casting at this time or powder coating myself.

If your measurements are accurate the you've likely found your problem. Over on the Cast Boolit site look up a feller that goes by doug guy. He reams cylinder throats and it sounds like yours really needs it. Guarantee this will help if not completely solve your problem.

35W

 

[roval]

I'll check if our lgs has pin gauges and if they are undersized shouldn't it be ruger that fixes it?