Mom, Dad, there's a bear in my room !
https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/wil...nto-sleeping-boys-bedroom-in-south-anchorage/
https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/wil...nto-sleeping-boys-bedroom-in-south-anchorage/
Let's talk bear guns for a moment
- Thread starter D.B. Cooper
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Zaydok Allen
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- Feb 12, 2011
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See, that kid should have been armed.
How about a S&W model 69? I guess for open carry, I don't worry about the weight of the gun. I'd look for a 4 or 5" 629. Mountain Gun is a good idea too. Super light weight 44 mags don't sound appealing to me.
How about a S&W model 69? I guess for open carry, I don't worry about the weight of the gun. I'd look for a 4 or 5" 629. Mountain Gun is a good idea too. Super light weight 44 mags don't sound appealing to me.
I have shot plenty of book loads that will handily exceed 1,100 fps from a 4-inch barrel. I don't know if you've chronographed any loads in your four-inch Smith, but you should be able to easily push a 300 grain pill at 1,200 fps. In the real world, the .44 Mag trumps the 10mm.
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Sergei Mosin
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If you can get hits as fast with the Blackhawk as with the 629 or Redhawk, it might be the way to go. Speed of reloading is not going to be a factor if Mr. Bear is after you.
The Redhawk's ergonomics can be fixed by grip changes. The infernal lock on the Smith is a little harder to cure. The Ruger will stand up to heavy loads better, but what will wear out first, the Smith or your wrist?
The Redhawk's ergonomics can be fixed by grip changes. The infernal lock on the Smith is a little harder to cure. The Ruger will stand up to heavy loads better, but what will wear out first, the Smith or your wrist?
entropy
Member
I had a 7 1/2" Redhawk that had Hogue grips on it, and developed some 300 gr. XTP loads that were at 1275, for moose. I will confess, when a moose got up in front of me in really thick alders, it suddenly felt like a popgun. Fortunately, he went away from me instead of at me, I didn't shoot, because they were thick alder. All I could see was a dark brown indistinct shape, probably a rump, at near my height. (6') Sounded like a Tank DIvision going through the woods. The .300 Win. Mag. on my shoulder was useless in that thicket. I had the v-notch and gold bead sight that Ruger sells for the Redhawk. If you want a revolver to carry in bear country, a 5" Redhawk or a S&W Mountain Gun (which is what my Dad used on the moose hunt) are my recommendations.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Yes, let's be real. In the real world, a 240gr at 1200fps .44Mag load is not loaded to its full potential. It's watered down. I've clocked 330's at 1220fps and 355's at 1130fps out of a 4 5/8" Ruger. Those are published Hodgdon loads. Same gun, 250gr Keith at 1300fps. The 10mm is a capable cartridge but it will never compete with that, not even close. A 200gr 10mm load has a sectional density comparable to a 225gr .44 bullet and that is not nearly enough mass to ensure good penetration. Even the vaunted 220-230gr cast bullets are only comparable to a 270gr .44 bullet. The .44Mag runs at comparable pressure with a lot more case capacity and allowable overall cartridge length and that results in a much heavier payload capability.
The various Glock 10mm's are also capable guns but they also have limitations not present in revolvers. They are lighter, which is a double edged sword. That light weight, coupled with coarse sights and a horrendous trigger make for range and accuracy limitations that do not hinder a 4" revolver. Folks also tend to go by empty weight and that changes dramatically when you load them up. A loaded Glock 20 weighs EXACTLY what an unloaded 629MG does. I think I can stand the weight of six rounds of ammo on top of that. If we're going to make a fair comparison, let's look at the model 69, which is even lighter or the 329, which is lighter than that.
That capacity people ALWAYS espouse is never going to come into play in a bear attack. Much less reload speed.
In the real world, a 10mm is an acceptable minimum but it is far from ideal for any outdoor purpose.
The various Glock 10mm's are also capable guns but they also have limitations not present in revolvers. They are lighter, which is a double edged sword. That light weight, coupled with coarse sights and a horrendous trigger make for range and accuracy limitations that do not hinder a 4" revolver. Folks also tend to go by empty weight and that changes dramatically when you load them up. A loaded Glock 20 weighs EXACTLY what an unloaded 629MG does. I think I can stand the weight of six rounds of ammo on top of that. If we're going to make a fair comparison, let's look at the model 69, which is even lighter or the 329, which is lighter than that.
That capacity people ALWAYS espouse is never going to come into play in a bear attack. Much less reload speed.
In the real world, a 10mm is an acceptable minimum but it is far from ideal for any outdoor purpose.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. It's a matter of what you're most comfortable with and most proficient with. A proficient single action shooter is not going to enjoy any advantage with a DA but a DA shooter will probably be at a disadvantage with an SA.
Armored farmer
Member
I know I wont......I always shoot SA anyway.
BobWright
Member
Cocking the hammer of a Single Action revolver is not some process done as the gun is leveled. When the Single Action revolver is brought level the hammer is already cocked. I can get off about three or four aimed shots in the same, or less, time than another using a double action revolver.
Bob Wright
Hanzo581
Member
I don't doubt your skill, but are you comparing apples to apples here? Or gauging against someone unskilled with a DA revolver?
ArchAngelCD
Member.
This is why we practice. It doesn't take long to develop new skills.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Double Tap...
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
That works both ways. Is your frame of reference an unskilled SA shooter? Most often, it seems those making comments about how slow SA's are to manipulate are those who've spent the least amount of time with them.
I've spent a good amount of time with both and a shot timer. Enough so that I can fire five rounds, reload and fire five more rounds out of a single action in 15secs. A DA is not faster using both hands and only marginally faster using one. Plus the only advantage a DA has is in dumping empties. Overall reloading speed is only better when using a speedloader.
This video is worth sharing again.
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Deaf Smith
Member
Well good. And one can easily cock a SA revolver one handed to. Like the other guys are saying, practice is essential with ANY emergency gear.
I happen to own and shoot S&W 629-1 .44, S&W 57 .41, Ruger SA Lipsy Super Blackhawk .44, Colt Delta Elite 10mm. Even used to own a Ruger Toklat .454 (but it was very heavy and with full .454s a handful!) I'd use any of the three I own in bear country and not worry overmuch but the 10mm is getting kind of light.
Of course I'd prefer my Mossberg 500 Mariner with Brenneke 'Black Magic' slugs over all of 'em. It also cost way less.
Deaf
PlumRotten
Member
Haahhhaaaaa......nope
Elkins45
Member
And that's why Jerry Miculek uses a single action revolver. Wait...
Accuracy is relative when the target is on top of you.
It's not a grenade. There's a thingie you flip off with your thumb. It can be done one handed.
Sample size of one here, but I had a 329 and got rid of it because it was unreliable. Under recoil of 300 grain loads it would spin the cylinder out of time, sometimes landing a fired round under the firing pin. Once the internal lock engaged from recoil. I removed the lock but when I finally understood how empty cases were coming up under the firing pin I got rid of it. It worked fine with 200 grain stuff, but the recoil impulse was just too much for the mechanism to stand.
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Elkins45
Member
Deaf Smith
Member
So uh.. you claim you are Jerry Miculek? No? Yes? You think most people can shoot like Miculek?
You really think shooting plates is the same as shooting a charging bear?
Now I've never been charged by a bear but I have been charged by a horse (we adopted it.. it had, er, anger issues) and I can tell you it sure is literally 'hair raising'. You won't have time to machinegun it with your DA revolver.
See all that fancy shooting on the range does not mean spit when it comes to betting your life against something that is trying to kill you. It happens mighty fast.
Deaf
Hanzo581
Member
I can't tell what you're trying to prove here. When under stress I want as few actions as possible, pulling a trigger is one action, cocking and firing is two. Citing experts of SA or DA revolvers doesn't help anyone since we're talking about regular people. I love my single action, but it has limitations in the hand of an average shooter, you and others in the thread may be Bob Munden, but most aren't.
Jerry Miculek is a paid trick shooter, and well, a freak of nature to some extent. I'm a fairly ordinary person, and with two practice sessions was able to shoot 5 reasonably well aimed shots with my FA 83 in .454 Casull at 15 feet in under three seconds. It just takes practice and real dedication to the craft no matter what sidearm you choose. Even if you choose a double-action over a single action or a semi-auto, you need to practice seriously to achieve a level of competence.
Elkins45
Member
Which is why I prefer a gun that only requires one gross motor movement to fire. The fact remains that given two equally skilled operators, a person with a DA revolver can get more shots into the bear in the same time as a person with a SA. The same amount of practice that makes you fast with a SA makes you faster with a DA.
You may choose to use harsh language, a muzzleloading flintlock or a 40 gigajoule plasma laser, limited only by your finances and your preferences. I personally have no intention of trading my 629 for a Super Blackhawk. You do you and I'll do me.
BobWright
Member
The only time I've ever really fired under stress occurred many years ago while I was in southeast Georgia. I had been fishing with two companions and was about ready to wrap it up. We were fishing in a creek in the piney woods area. It was near dusk. I was carrying a Colt Frontier Scout .22 Single Action.
I saw a half sheet of plywood floating down the creek toward me, and coiled up on the plywood was a pretty fair sized cottonmouth. I drew that little Colt and fired one shot, not quite completely severing its head. Just as I fired, a second cottonmouth fell off the undercut bank to my right, maybe five or six feet away. I killed it with a second shot, just as a third slithered between my feet heading for the water. My third shot blew its head off and stuck the neck into the hole the .22 bullet had made. I have no idea the time, but the three shots were fired very rapidly.
Bob Wright
I saw a half sheet of plywood floating down the creek toward me, and coiled up on the plywood was a pretty fair sized cottonmouth. I drew that little Colt and fired one shot, not quite completely severing its head. Just as I fired, a second cottonmouth fell off the undercut bank to my right, maybe five or six feet away. I killed it with a second shot, just as a third slithered between my feet heading for the water. My third shot blew its head off and stuck the neck into the hole the .22 bullet had made. I have no idea the time, but the three shots were fired very rapidly.
Bob Wright
I would make a wager that this isn't necessarily true. The DA revolver requires a much longer stroke, and heavy recoiling DAs are even harder to shoot fast. You cock the single action before you come out of recoil. Watch the video clip that CraigC. posted. I have had DA revolvers in .44 Mag, .45 Colt, .454 Casull, .480 Ruger, .475 Linebaugh, .500 Linebaugh, and .500 Smith & Wesson, and they are definitely not easy to shoot in double action mode in a hurry.
Elkins45
Member
It would take hours of practice for me to shoot my SBH as accurately fast as my 629. Why should I?
I honestly don't know why you guys are working so hard to make this point. If SA guns were faster and better for most people they never would have been eclipsed by DA guns.
That SA video doesn't give me any reason to abandon a gun I already shoot well.
I honestly don't know why you guys are working so hard to make this point. If SA guns were faster and better for most people they never would have been eclipsed by DA guns.
That SA video doesn't give me any reason to abandon a gun I already shoot well.
D.B.Cooper, I probably won't be much help but I'm also in the middle of a bear gun quest. I have the following revolvers that I would consider appropriate for defense against big black, brown and grizzly bears.
Ruger SRH Alaskan .454 Casull
Ruger RH .45 Colt
Ruger BH .45 Colt/.45 ACP
Ruger BH .45 Colt/.45 ACP
S&W 629 .44 Mag
Like you I've decided to use one of the DA revolvers and at this stage I've narrowed it down to the two Rugers. I also agree with you that the RH grip isn't as comfortable or as natural as the SRH grip and good choices for the RH grip aren't exactly plentiful. I did order Simply Rugged holsters for both Rugers along with their chesty puller suspension system. Overall the SR stuff appears to be well made but the cartridge loops are on the loose side. As for loads, I've worked up a 340gr hardcast WFN load for the Casull that does close to 1,200 fps from the Alaskan. Once I've done the same for the RH with the same bullet I'll decide which one I want to carry.
Are you talking about Georgia specifically or just in general? I took one of my dogs to the vet today and got to talking about bears in MT and AK since my vet has spent 20 years photographing them in both states. He's been close to more bears than most people in the world, I'm talking many hundreds over the last 20 years. He told me that the bears in MT are far more dangerous than the ones in AK. He showed me photos of black bears that were 400lb to 500lb and grizzlies that were almost twice that! I mentioned the forestry officer who was killed by a grizzly last year just up the road in West Glacier and it turns out that he was one of my vet's best friends and was in the vets office the day he was killed. My vet always carries bear spray (despite being a gun nut) and has offered to take me this September to see some seriously big bears. My concern with bear spray is that you need to make sure of the wind direction. A good friend dumped most of a can at a bear only to be knocked down by the blowback. He survived the encounter but has since started carrying a revolver in place of spray. I would not trust my life to the 10mm Auto, not with the bears we have up here. I consider the .44 Mag and 300gr hardcast to be the absolute minimum for large bears, and even then, in the event of a bear attack I would need a whole lot of luck.
Ruger SRH Alaskan .454 Casull
Ruger RH .45 Colt
Ruger BH .45 Colt/.45 ACP
Ruger BH .45 Colt/.45 ACP
S&W 629 .44 Mag
Like you I've decided to use one of the DA revolvers and at this stage I've narrowed it down to the two Rugers. I also agree with you that the RH grip isn't as comfortable or as natural as the SRH grip and good choices for the RH grip aren't exactly plentiful. I did order Simply Rugged holsters for both Rugers along with their chesty puller suspension system. Overall the SR stuff appears to be well made but the cartridge loops are on the loose side. As for loads, I've worked up a 340gr hardcast WFN load for the Casull that does close to 1,200 fps from the Alaskan. Once I've done the same for the RH with the same bullet I'll decide which one I want to carry.
Are you talking about Georgia specifically or just in general? I took one of my dogs to the vet today and got to talking about bears in MT and AK since my vet has spent 20 years photographing them in both states. He's been close to more bears than most people in the world, I'm talking many hundreds over the last 20 years. He told me that the bears in MT are far more dangerous than the ones in AK. He showed me photos of black bears that were 400lb to 500lb and grizzlies that were almost twice that! I mentioned the forestry officer who was killed by a grizzly last year just up the road in West Glacier and it turns out that he was one of my vet's best friends and was in the vets office the day he was killed. My vet always carries bear spray (despite being a gun nut) and has offered to take me this September to see some seriously big bears. My concern with bear spray is that you need to make sure of the wind direction. A good friend dumped most of a can at a bear only to be knocked down by the blowback. He survived the encounter but has since started carrying a revolver in place of spray. I would not trust my life to the 10mm Auto, not with the bears we have up here. I consider the .44 Mag and 300gr hardcast to be the absolute minimum for large bears, and even then, in the event of a bear attack I would need a whole lot of luck.
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