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Long Range Rifle/Scope/PRS question(s)

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Walkalong, Dec 21, 2018.

  1. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    I've got my repaired copy, 3-lugged and ready for some testing this weekend:
    IMG_20191120_205818196~01.jpg

    Out of curiosity, what brand 50rd mag did you get, and where did you get it?
     
  2. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    Promag, directly from promag

    HVhXqV5.jpg
     
  3. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Dang skippy
     

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  4. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    A generous THR member gifted me 100 Sierra 107 Gr SMKs, I picked up 100 Hornady 108 Gr ELDs, and of course I have some Berger 105 Gr Hybrids. It was raining here today, so I took the ejector out of the Impact's bolt, as well as the firing pin assembly, and used this method to see where they hit the lands. I had already done this with the Bergers, but did it again.

    I did not try to get it exactly on the lands. I loaded them long in twice fired/sized cases and shortened them up .005 at a time. I logged the last Wilson seater setting where the bolt didn't drop of it own accord, and the seater setting where it did. I also used my Sinclair Comparator Body with the 6MM Insert to get a Base To Ogive number which I also recorded.

    I have been loading the Berger to be .010 to .015 off the lands. I am going to fire form my latest batch of 100 Lapua 6 BR cases with some of each of these bullets, then load 25 of those fire formed cases to complete the number I might need for the Dec 14 match, which will leave me 75 fire formed cases to test things with.

    I measured the OAL for reference purposes for anyone who might wonder how much difference there
    is in the OALs for possible feeding issues. The only important measurement of course is base to ogive.
    Seating Depths - Berger 105 Hybrid, Sierra 107 MK, Hornady 108 ELD @ 60%.JPG
     

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  5. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Alpha 6 Dasher brass came back in stock, so I have 100 on the way. My N-150 and N-160 came Monday. I'm ready to play around a little when I am up to it.

    I may load another dummy round with the ELD and SMK, but this time at .010 to .015 into the lands to see how these shorter rounds will feed after seeing the video @Varminterror posted.
     
  6. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Earlier in the thread I had mentioned the issue of my old Sinclair hand priming tool not seating the CCI-450 below flush in the 6 BR cases. I bought a 21st Century tool and I love it.

    But since I will be seating large primers in the Creedmoor using Hornady brass, at least to start I decided to fix the issue with the tool. It has shims (Thin washers) to put under the part that holds the primer punches if it is seating too deeply, but you are out of luck if it doesn't seat deeply enough.

    I took .003 off of the one for the large punch and .005 off the one for the small punch. That is about what was needed as one was longer than the other, and a hair too much is ok, because you can lessen the depth with shims.

    This is the piece that holds the large primer seater stem and determines seating depth. I removed .005 from the top, re-chamfered the inner and outer edges and polished a little with 600 grit.
    Sinclair Small Primer Insert for Seater Rod.JPG

    Here it is in the tool, you can see the seater punch is above flush as it should be.
    As is with no shims it is now seating Federal 210M primers .007 to .0075 below flush. Good to go.
    Sinclair Small Primer Insert for Seater Rod in Tool..JPG


    I'll use the 21st Century tool for small primers and the Sinclair for large primers, no need to swap out
    parts to switch back and forth, but if I should want to, the small primer part is also fixed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
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  7. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    I picked up the MPA Competition Ready Rifle today. I have three rounds ready to start breaking it in and get some fired cases from this rifle.
    I'll use those three cases to tweak the sizer setup and then I'll be good to go. Gonna start with Hornady brass.

    I have to mount the scope when I feel up to it, then go to the range. Actually feeling nearly human today. :)

    Oh, the AIAW mag I did not "tweak" fits in it and looks like it will work, just have to try it. The P-Mag that came with it
    has a lot of side to side play/wobble down low, but I doubt that will hurt anything. If the AIAW mag runs, I'll use it,
    but I also ordered MDT AI style 10 & 12 round mags on the Black Friday sale the other day too.

    MPA CCR Rifle - 6 Creed.JPG
     
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  8. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Pretty dang cheap deal they offered. I picked up 3 of their 6 Dasher 12 rounders plus a 12 round standard (w/out a binder plate). Hoping an Area419 extender will fit the standard model, giving me a 16rnd mag. As long as the spring pressure is good, it’d be nice to have a mag capable of a 15 round stage without a reload.
     
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  9. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    I loaded 3 rounds with 43.0 Grs of Winchester PR StaBall 6.5 and Berger 105 Gr Hybrids. I found the distance to the lands with the Berger, the107 SMK and the 108 ELD. I loaded the Bergers to be .010 to .015 off the lands and they are a hair too long for the Magpul mag.

    I buggered up the roll pin for the ejector so any shooting before I get a new on will be with no ejector. I need to make or buy a tool for removing/reinstalling it like I have for my two lug Impact/other Remish clones. It is a different size as well, the stock Remington ejector roll pin from Brownells fits the Impact.

    5/64x3/8 for the Impact and 3/32x3/8 for the Axiom. Super cheap from somewhere like McMaster Carr. Expensive from Brownells, but then, we shouldn't be removing them much. :)
     
  10. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    I am feeling better getting stir crazy, and curiosity killed the cat, so I went to the range and fired the three rounds with no ejector (Used to that from my Benchrest days), and no scope. Just lined up the chrono and shot.

    1st shot = 3058 FPS
    2nd shot = 3086 FPS
    3rd shot = 3108 FPS

    The four port brake limited recoil to next to nothing with minimal blast to shooter (Very little), more effective that the three port Little Bastard on the 6 Creed Havak and even on the 6 Dasher Impact.

    I'll give it a leisurely cleaning and shoot a 4/5/6 rounds to get it near sighted in when I get the scope mounted and a clam evening. Then give it another leisurely cleaning.

    It looks like it will take more StaBall 6.5 powder to settle things down and get lower ES/SD numbers. Hodgdon online data shows a max of 43.7 with a Hornady 105 Gr HPBT & 43.3 with the Sierra 107 Gr BTHP. (2.730 & 2.775 OALs - I was at 2.885 +/-)

    The soft Fed 210M primers look fine, nice and flat across with a little curve at the edges. Zero sign of firing pin flow on the primers or ejector cutout marks on case heads.
    StaBall 6.5 in 6 Creed Velocity Test - 43.0 Grs - MPA Rifle @ 55%.JPG
     
  11. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    I re-installed the ejector on the MPA rifle with a new roll pin, and my Alpha 6 Dasher brass came today.
    Alpha 6 Dasher Brass @ 60%.JPG
     
  12. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    I renewed my carry permit for five more years this morning, mounted the Bushnell Forge 4.5-27X56 scope this afternoon, then sold two more handguns this evening. I was productive today. Raised the cheek piece a little (After the pic), focused the eyepiece for my eye.
    MPA CCR Rifle - 6 Creed with Bushnell Forge 4.5-27X56.JPG
     

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  13. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Grip is a bit different, is it meant to be used with the thumb on the right side?

    Edit: Did some research and it is. I may need to grind a little off f the "trigger finger support" swell. We'll see.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  14. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    @Walkalong - since most of us are shooting largely free recoil, nobody is wrapping their thumb except in motion. No driving the rifle with the rear hand. Most of the time, I don’t palm my grip at all, preferring to simply pinch my trigger against the trigger guard, only pressing the tip of my middle finger against the pistol grip to stabilize my finger on the trigger for follow through during recoil. It was almost a necessity with the light weight of the factory barrel on that Seekins, an instructor at a class 2 yrs ago recommend I adopt it. I’ve practiced more and more to go back to a palm-contact grip since I added a lot of weight this year, resting my thumb on the stock instead of pinching, but it’s become a reliable and productive habit, so I’m not terribly motivated to convert back just yet.

    348C8F76-20DC-4D81-804B-8DCFC38D89AF.png
     
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  15. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    I did not shoot free recoil even in Benchrest. I'll play a little with thumb on the right with this setup. Don't expect to change, but who knows.

    I am looking forward to seeing how Sam likes this chassis setup, he perked up when I told him he could bolt his rifle into a chassis if he liked it.
     
  16. MarshallDodge

    MarshallDodge Member

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    What model is the scope in that picture?
     
  17. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    If I'm bearing down for max accuracy and consistency I try to keep my thumb out of the picture
     
  18. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Me to, it is just kind of there.
     
  19. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
  20. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    I had seven more 6 Creed cases left from that partial box of fired factory 108 Gr ELD ammo, so I loaded up three with 43.3, 43.6, & 43.8 Grs StaBall 6.5 with Berger 105 Hybrids, as well as four with 40.0, 40.3, 40.7, & 41.0 Grs N-160 with Berger 105 Hybrids. I loaded them to be .010 to .015 off the lands, which ended up at 2.865 to 2.875 OAL.

    2.875 just does fit the mags with binder plates. I may end up having to load them a little shorter for good measure.

    I have six or seven full boxes of once fired factory 108 Gr ELD ammo to work with, but these should give me an idea of what velocities to expect and perhaps where pressure shows up as well.

    I also just received 300 new Hornady 6 Creed cases for later.

    Weather here is crap.

    43.3 to 43.8 Grs StaBall 6.5 & 40.0 to 41.0 Grs N-160 with Berger 105 Hybrid.JPG
     
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  21. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Temps jumped up today to mid 70's, will be back in the mid 50's tomorrow, so I went to the range after work and shot them. I used the three StaBall 6.5 rounds (43.3, 43.6, & 43.8) to sight in. Bore sighted it the old fashioned way and shot one, adjusted over and down and shot one, 3 clicks up and shot one, pretty much dead on. The Jeff from work who shoots PRS (Shot at Blakely with Sam and I) shot the four N-160 rounds (40.0, 40.3, 40.7, 41.0) into a group that measured right at .458.

    StaBall 6.5 105 Berger Hybrid Fed 210M
    43.3 = 3108
    43.6 = 3093
    43.8 did not register (Very overcast)

    N-160 105 Berger Hybrid Fed 210M
    40.0 = 2898
    40.3 = 2895
    40.7 = 2969
    41.0 = 2936

    Primers all look good, N-160 looks like it has room to bump up a hair.
    43.3 to 43.8 Grs StaBall 6.5 & 40.0 to 41.0 Grs N-160 105 Hybrid - Primers Pic 2 @ 73%.JPG

    I used the center of the sheet for bore sighting and dialing in, then Jeff shot a group on the top right target. (4 rounds - .458)
    43.3 to 43.8 Grs StaBall 6.5 & 40.0 to 41.0 Grs N-160 with Berger 105 Hybrid - Target @ 52%.JPG
     
  22. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    We were both impressed with the Trigger Tech Special flat 1.5 Lb trigger (I would like some fine grooves in it). We both thought the rifle could use a hair more weight in the stock area, and we were both rally impressed with the MPA brake.

    It had less recoil at 14.5 pounds no mag than my 6 dasher at 19.5 Lbs no mag.

    The brake is canted slightly left, came mounted that way. I always wondered if brakes should be canted to counter the torque from the rifling, but all the videos make it sound like they are mounting them level. So I wonder if MPA didn't get it level, or if they mount them slightly canted, which way is better, which way is standard.....what do y'all do.....

    And yes it is a four port vs the ABA Little Bastard 3 port on my Impact, but it sure was effective. Very nice, and not abusive to the shooter at all.
     
  23. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

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    I don’t think rotating the brake changes the effectiveness at all. However I typically cant mine toward my strong side. Essentially if I’m low prone with a brake horizontal it’s going to throw dirt sand water etc back equally on both sides. But One eye is directly behind the scope and the other is on the weak side so I figure I’d rather blow more debris on the strong side and less on the weak side.
     
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  24. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    What I would do is make it level because it would bug the crap out of me every time I looked at it....and being canted would make me look at it constantly
     
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  25. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    The new APA is tunable. I’m avoiding the consequence of ordering one, because I know I’d fully burn out a barrel just testing the different porting combinations.

    I’ve fiddled a little in the past with slightly clocking brakes to fight horizontal rotation of the rifle (lateral travel in the scope) due to forced depression and retraction of the scapulothoracic joint during recoil, but largely, I’ve come to adapt my technique to counteract this twist, rather than rig my rifle to self-correct. Especially for positional games where the influence of my shoulder on the rifle during recoil varies from one shot to the next.

    Straight up, clocked level.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2019
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