Long Range Rifle/Scope/PRS question(s)

Yep, it was crazy, it was switchy all day, but that was unusual.

Oh, I just re-read that, and I mistyped, I ended up at two mils off center to just miss this nose. I started at a mil off center, which was just left of the butt.
 
My question revolves around scopes. I am interested in getting into precision rifle shooting (100-1000 yards). The range closest to me goes out to 250 yards, and there is a 600 yard range about an hour away from me. I found a rifle I like which is the new Remington 700 Long Range with 5R heavy barrel, HS Precision stock, and 30-06. However, I'm having trouble deciding on a scope. After watching Tiborsaurus Rex, I know what features I'm looking for, but it seems most scopes out there are either not what I'm looking for, or overkill for what I'm doing (ie crazy high magnification ranges).

Features I'm looking for:
- Objective size 44mm maximum (I'm flexible on this)
- Magnification either fixed 6x, fixed 10x, or a variable within the 2-16 range (2.5-10x is my favorite range but I'm flexible on this)
- Mil-hash or mil-dot reticle (turrets must be in mils as well)
- Generous elevation range (I would say at least 16 mils of upward elevation travel after zeroing at 200 yards)
- Reliable and repeatable turrets
- Target turrets
- First focal plane
- Adjustable parallax

To give you a baseline idea of my shooting skill, I can consistently hit a 1" swinging plate with my 22LR at 100 yards while prone. I'm using a $50 3-9x40 scope set at 9x. For this reason, I don't think I need a ton of magnification. With this in mind, here are my questions:

1) For first focal plane scopes, a common complaint I see is that the reticles are useless at lower powers. So if I insist on a FFP variable, what would be the a good low end magnification that would still keep the reticle useful?

2) Lets say you have two variables scopes with a 10x top end. One is a SFP and the other is FFP. They both have ranging reticles. Everything else being equal, will there be a difference in accuracy between the two of them?

Thanks!
 
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@GearheadExplorer85
What is your budget?

I have a little Sightron 3-16x42 S-TAC FFP that is pretty compact, has a mil reticle, 20.4 mils of elevation, illuminated reticle, and target turrets.

One downside is the turrets are exposed and do not lock, which means a decent bump will turn them. That said, they can be zeroed, and the elevation knob has an adjustable zero stop.

The reticle does get pretty small when zoomed out to 3X but I can still see it. I don't read the hashes at 3X but I have shot it on the zero hash without an issue.
 
Another option, they usually have demo models and Black Friday sales. Almost Indestructible as well. ( I have one in a second FP that might be the best all around scope I’ve ever bought )

www.swfa.com

SWFA 3-15x42 SS 30mm Riflescope

SWFA 3-15x42 SS 30mm Riflescope Details SKU: SS315X42MQ Finish: Matte Reticle: MIL-Quad Tube Diameter (mm): 30 Elevation Knob: Exposed Target (.1 MIL) Windage Knob: Exposed Target (.1 MIL) Parallax Setting: Side Focus Focal Plane: First
www.swfa.com www.swfa.com
 
MarshallDodge said:
@GearheadExplorer85
What is your budget?

I have a little Sightron 3-16x42 S-TAC FFP that is pretty compact, has a mil reticle, 20.4 mils of elevation, illuminated reticle, and target turrets.

One downside is the turrets are exposed and do not lock, which means a decent bump will turn them. That said, they can be zeroed, and the elevation knob has an adjustable zero stop.

The reticle does get pretty small when zoomed out to 3X but I can still see it. I don't read the hashes at 3X but I have shot it on the zero hash without an issue.
Click to expand...

I would put my budget between $500-1500 in USD.

That Sightron looks like a pretty good scope for the price. How far out do you usually shoot? What is the glass quality like?

It my understanding that if you have 20 mils of total elevation, you only have around 10 mils available (give or take) after sighting in. To get to 1000, I would need around 8 mils which would put me close to the end of the travel. I've heard that you shouldn't crank the turret all the way to the end of the travel. Hence why I doubled the amount of travel that I needed so I have more of a buffer.
 
JFrank said:
Another option, they usually have demo models and Black Friday sales. Almost Indestructible as well. ( I have one in a second FP that might be the best all around scope I’ve ever bought )

www.swfa.com

SWFA 3-15x42 SS 30mm Riflescope

SWFA 3-15x42 SS 30mm Riflescope Details SKU: SS315X42MQ Finish: Matte Reticle: MIL-Quad Tube Diameter (mm): 30 Elevation Knob: Exposed Target (.1 MIL) Windage Knob: Exposed Target (.1 MIL) Parallax Setting: Side Focus Focal Plane: First
www.swfa.com www.swfa.com
Click to expand...

SWFA has some really cool stuff. I was looking at their fixed 10x42 SS scope a while ago. Unfortunately, I discovered that they don't export to Canada and I haven't been able to find a distributor that will sell them. Not sure why they won't sell up here. There are a few shops that sell Sightron though.
 
If you use a 20 MOA scope base, which is what I have, that will move the scope down 5.7 mils, giving you a total of almost 16 mils of elevation.

The S-TAC that I have is on a 22" 223. The furthest I have shot is 900 yards, but it wouldn't be difficult to get to 1000. With a 77 SMK load, I used the reticle to hold out to 600, then dialed 5 mils and held the additional amount out to 900, which was a total of 8.5 mils.

On edit regarding the glass- It is very good for the price point, and good enough to see 223 impacts on steel at 900 yards. I wouldn't consider it to be as good as some of the higher ended Japanese or German glass on the market.
 
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FFP scopes the recital is the same throughout its range, SFP scopes it is set for one focal length. At 1000yrds the targets (bullseye) get small if you don't have enough magnification. IfI was looking for a new rifle for precision shooting I would look closely at the various 6mm and 6.5mm options over the 30-06. I love all my 06s but for precision work there are better options, kinda like using a bulldozer to knock over an ant hill, it is a great hunting round but for paper targets it is a little much.
 
GearheadExplorer85 said:
SWFA has some really cool stuff. I was looking at their fixed 10x42 SS scope a while ago. Unfortunately, I discovered that they don't export to Canada and I haven't been able to find a distributor that will sell them. Not sure why they won't sell up here. There are a few shops that sell Sightron though.
Click to expand...
Of course I had no way of knowing you where located in Canada.
 
MarshallDodge said:
If you use a 20 MOA scope base, which is what I have, that will move the scope down 5.7 mils, giving you a total of almost 16 mils of elevation.

The S-TAC that I have is on a 22" 223. The furthest I have shot is 900 yards, but it wouldn't be difficult to get to 1000. With a 77 SMK load, I used the reticle to hold out to 600, then dialed 5 mils and held the additional amount out to 900, which was a total of 8.5 mils.

On edit regarding the glass- It is very good for the price point, and good enough to see 223 impacts on steel at 900 yards. I wouldn't consider it to be as good as some of the higher ended Japanese or German glass on the market.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I'll think I will be putting this scope on my short list.
 
First focal plane scopes the reticle gets smaller/larger as you change powers, making the mil hashes correct at any power, important for shooting a variety of distances. No need to do any math like if you’re using a second focal plane scope and are not at the one power where the mil hashes are correct.

The reticle stays the same size for all powers in a second focal plane scope, but the mil hashes are only correct at one power, but not for all the other powers. Not a great choice for shooting multiple yardages. Great for competitions where you shoot one set yardage.

With your budget you have a lot of excellent choices.

Yes, with a FFP scope the reticle gets tiny at low power, but we really don’t use the lower powers. I usually shoot from 8X to 20+ power, where the reticle is quite usable.

I would suggest a 30 or 34MM scope tube with a 50 or 56 MM objective, and a 20 MOA rail. That’s going to get you to 1K easily.
 
GearheadExplorer85 said:
My question revolves around scopes. I am interested in getting into precision rifle shooting (100-1000 yards). The range closest to me goes out to 250 yards, and there is a 600 yard range about an hour away from me. I found a rifle I like which is the new Remington 700 Long Range with 5R heavy barrel, HS Precision stock, and 30-06. However, I'm having trouble deciding on a scope. After watching Tiborsaurus Rex, I know what features I'm looking for, but it seems most scopes out there are either not what I'm looking for, or overkill for what I'm doing (ie crazy high magnification ranges).

Features I'm looking for:
- Objective size 44mm maximum (I'm flexible on this)
- Magnification either fixed 6x, fixed 10x, or a variable within the 2-16 range (2.5-10x is my favorite range but I'm flexible on this)
- Mil-hash or mil-dot reticle (turrets must be in mils as well)
- Generous elevation range (I would say at least 16 mils of upward elevation travel after zeroing at 200 yards)
- Reliable and repeatable turrets
- Target turrets
- First focal plane
- Adjustable parallax

To give you a baseline idea of my shooting skill, I can consistently hit a 1" swinging plate with my 22LR at 100 yards while prone. I'm using a $50 3-9x40 scope set at 9x. For this reason, I don't think I need a ton of magnification. With this in mind, here are my questions:

1) For first focal plane scopes, a common complaint I see is that the reticles are useless at lower powers. So if I insist on a FFP variable, what would be the a good low end magnification that would still keep the reticle useful?

2) Lets say you have two variables scopes with a 10x top end. One is a SFP and the other is FFP. They both have ranging reticles. Everything else being equal, will there be a difference in accuracy between the two of them?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

What sort of long range shooting are you going to be doing? Shooting paper for groups, small targets or torso sized steel?

If shooting for groups or smaller targets (like MOA size targets), magnification is your friend. If you're just banging steel, the rule of thumb used to be 1X magnification for every 100 yards, but many double that. I am one of the many. The real benefit of more magnification is being able to spot your own misses, but if you're shooting with a buddy who is spotting for you, this becomes less important.

I've used scopes from Sightron, Nightforce, Swarovski and Vortex. The upper line Vortex scopes are a good bang for the buck. I've recently started using Arken scopes. My latest is an EP5 and I've gotta say, it carries its weight at its sub $400 price point. Reticle is good. Glass is good. Turrets are excellent.

The range where I shoot has 800 yards and the Arken is very workable.

Just remember, quality over quantity. Clearer glass will allow you to see more than lesser glass with more magnification.
 
GearheadExplorer85 said:
I would put my budget between $500-1500 in USD.

That Sightron looks like a pretty good scope for the price. How far out do you usually shoot? What is the glass quality like?

It my understanding that if you have 20 mils of total elevation, you only have around 10 mils available (give or take) after sighting in. To get to 1000, I would need around 8 mils which would put me close to the end of the travel. I've heard that you shouldn't crank the turret all the way to the end of the travel. Hence why I doubled the amount of travel that I needed so I have more of a buffer.
Click to expand...
You could get a 20 MOA mount and add a little less than 6 mils of additional elevation.

ETA: Looks like someone else already mentioned this.
 
I failed miserably at taking pictures today. The match was a nice setup, the five monthly NRL-22 stages, then five made up by the match director, who did a really nice job.

The rifle in post # 2246 is my Vudoo that @rdnktrkr borrowed to shoot the West Georgia match, and Jeff shot it today. It ran flawlessly as usual. I ran my new Rim-X that I have built over the last few months, with the barrel being the last purchase. It has run flawlessly getting it broken in, shooting test targets etc. Today it had issues, starting
in Stage # 1 on the fourth shot, bolt wouldn't close, ease it back, a live round is stuck in the chamber, somehow it got in front of the extractor (old style) and chambered.
Being a fixed expander it will not pop over rims, and if forced can break the extractor. It hapened on three different stages, really killed my score. After shooting the match Jeff and I took it to the zero range and shot it off barricades, bench, etc, jammed on the mag, ran it slow, ran it fast, short stroked it, couldn't make it do it again. *Sigh*

I'm going to order the new style extractor here shortly, and the little tool for popping a .22 rimfire round or case out of the chamber. Very frustrating, it's much too pricy to not work. It was like a little redheaded girl today, when it was good, it was very, very good, but when it was bad, it was very, very bad. :)

The Rim-X
IMG_4518a.JPG

Fraternal twins. :D
 
Final results for the NRA regional last weekend: Despite shooting a personal best I finished middle of the pack in 12th

I only dropped 2 shots with a final grand agg of 1198-85X and feel really good about it. I shot the Texas State championship a couple of weeks ago with 1198-79X. I posted the details on that match in the competition section here:

I shot in the Texas State Highpower Championship this weekend

It was a well run match with a lot of very accomplished shooters. Several of the 54 in attendance were current and past champions including a few record holders. The format was 6 individual matches, 3 on Saturday and 3 on Sunday, 600 yards, prone, 20 shots for record in each match. General...
www.thehighroad.org
 
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