Looking at ARs for hunting. What to know?

[12Bravo20]

Well I will apologize if I misread his posts

 

[Sanderguy777]

No 270 Win in an AR unless you get into some of the boutique rifles and then nothing is standard. All proprietary. The OAL of the 30-06 family is too long for the AR-10. 243 is definitely an option though. But, like I said, it’s going to be a chunky rifle.

The POF uppers and lowers for their Rogue and Revolution lines will only work with each other. You can’t swap uppers and lowers for any other brand. Lots of engineering to make the magic of squeezing a 308 into a 5.56 sized action happen.

Oh. I have done that at least 3 times. I'm looking at the Wikipedia article on AR compatibility and they have the .270 WSM, but I always just see .270.

Ruger has said that they will be building the SFAR in 6.5 CM, but no word on when they’ll be released that I have seen.

OK, thanks! I'll be on the lookout, but will probably end up with something before that happens LOL.

You may see some "sticker shock" with POF.
There's a wide variety of the "large well" ARs, and while the differences are narrowing, they still exist--this is very much unlike the AR-15 market, where the parts are very much as standardized as Legos.

I mean, I survived the FN scar price tag, so I don't think POF can hurt me any more LOL.

I'll echo what others have said. If you want just one lower, go with any standard AR15 lower. There are plenty of calibers that fit the AR15 that are good deer rounds out to 300 yards. I would recommend a 223/223Wylde/5.56 upper for general target shooting and some small varmint hunting. You won't go wrong with the 6mm ARC, 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SCP for deer sized game. The 6.5 Grendel is the most common the three as far as finding ammo goes. But the 6 ARC is readily available now days. While 6.8 SPC is a good round, ammo is going to harder to find.

I looked at the 6.5, but it's like $2 a round. I'd as soon use the 7mm rem mag I used in Idaho. The 6mm is only $1.15 to $1.85 per round. That's midwayusa.com, so I'm not sure if that's high or not, just the standard I use since they have a lot of options and it's a good comparison.

I do most of my AR deer hunting with 6.5 Grendel or .350 Legend, depending on how far I plan to shoot. For hog hunting I prefer the .450 Bushmaster or sometimes a large frame AR in .308 if I want to thump at a little longer range. I rarely get out one of my 6.8 SPCs anymore, but they are extremely capable as well. I have not tried my 6 ARCs yet for hunting; will probably stick to target shooting with them. I really wish I had picked up a .30 RAR or two back in the day, but have been thinking about trying the .300 Ham'r.

There are several other wildcat or near wildcat AR cartridges that I think would be great for hunting that I have not had time to check out yet, since I spend mot of my time these days at the target range, but I'm sure they are worth checking out.

I think the .450 bushmaster would be fun, but I'll only do that if I need something to master the brush LOL

IF You're handy assembling parts into Rifles ,DEALS can be had . Some SUPER parts sales are happening NOW . GOOD lowers and GREAT Barrels are the Key .

.308 IMO is a Better choice 0-800 Yd. hunting ,now 6.5 CM is Great 0-1200 Yd. target wise . Brush guns Not hardly ,so if 0-300 yd. appeals to Your hunting style 16" even 14.5" barrels might be for You ?. Although 18" is more practical again IMO .

I prefer 20" barrels myself as I've never had an issue with +4" barrel and velocity coupled with accuracy are SPOT ON .

I can tell You or anyone else ,that some brands you probably never considered produce superior accuracy and even with chrome lined bores .

I've got a bone stock 5.56X45mm Bushmaster XM15 E2S 20" Rifle A2 Type. I've shot 3 #5 shot groups at 200 meters and ALL holes fit under a dime with change to spare ,using handloads with 55 gr. Sierras and BLC-2 no less .

I've cobbled some Name brand Lowers with Big named Barrels ,which DON'T do as well !.

I've built perhaps a dozen AR-15's and 10's including MY last build 6.5 CM which shows REAL Promise in accuracy . MY .308's are pretty accurate but considering the $$$$'s I invested in them ,not certain the gain for $ value over PSA was worth it . Just being honest .
I've been VERY HAPPY with Aero Precision quality and capabilities Faxon barrels have also been impressive .

PSA is palmettostatearmory.com? I'm going to get a factory rifle first. That way I at least have a functional one out of the box. Then I can tinker and add stuff as I go. Also, the IWI one I was looking at seems to be a really solid build. Not only quality, but good parts too. I think the trigger, and a different caliber would be the only additions I'd even need.

Hunting . I've had zero issues transferring from Bolt to Boltless ,short #5 round magazines instead of #20-30-40 round nonsense makes quite a decent handling rifle . Now again IMO less recoil faster into battery allows for a second quick follow up ,should it become necessary .
Thankfully I've yet to find the need to test that theory

That's a good idea. 10 would be fine, but I'm not planning on needing more than 5 shots, and that's if I get charged by a boar and use 3 rounds to lay him out LOL

 

[12Bravo20]

Looking at ammoseek.com and it looks like the average price for 6mm ARC is $1.25 per round or $25 per box of 20. You can find it cheaper other places compared to MidwayUSA. Last time I bought any was when I stopped in at Graf's Reloading Supply's store in Mexico, Mo. I paid $28 per box after tax for Hornady 108Gr 6 ARC ammo.

 

[P Flados]

You seem price sensitive and you said "for most of my 100, maybe 200yd shots".

The 350 Legend is deer capable at over 200 yards with good shot placement. However, hold over and wind drift are more of an issue than with the 6.5 / 6.8 stuff. If it is windy and you do not claim to be great with drift estimations, staying under 150 yards is probably a good idea. But from 150 yards in, the 350L is petty ideal.

145 FMJ practice ammo for the 350L is as low as around $0.65 / round and hunting ammo can be had for under $1.00 / round.

Lets Assume you would consider the 350L as your "big" A-15. The following will probably do you just as well (if not better) than spending on name brand products.

I actually recommend recommend building a "generic lower" (PSA, Anderson, etc) but getting a good drop in trigger should get you an extremely functional lower (hard to beat without going 3x on price) and going with a 20" 223 Wilde upper from PSA (or similar). Alternately, going with a complete PSA 223 Wilde gun is not a bad way to start off. Do not be afraid of PSA, their AR stuff just plain works the vast majority of the time and I consider their customer service as a strong point. Later if you want a "big upgrade" then just swap out the trigger (easy with a drop in). My PSA 223 Wilde upper shoots 1.5 MOA or so with the cheapest bullets I could find.

For a 350L upper, shop around. I would be willing to spend a little more on the 350L upper. It is a little more "tricky" to get right than some other rounds. Note that if you like a gun that is "handy", the 350L will do just fine even with a 16" or 18" barrel. Plan to buy a "350L" specific magazine.

 

[marksman13]

I’ll be honest. Nothing about that IWI screams “quality” any more than the S&W or Ruger options that are better priced. When I think of high end ARs my mind goes to Geissele, Radian, JP Enterprises, Noveske, LMT, Bravo Company, Daniel Defense, LWRC, KAC and POF-USA. IWI has put out a lot of mediocre products over the years and people buy them because they are “Israeli” and Israel is always at war, so their weapons must be great, right? Meh…not so much.

If you already have a SCAR, that’s what I would use. I’ve had a couple of 17s and they weren’t really for me, but they are great rifles and I killed plenty of deer and pigs with them.

 

[Sanderguy777]

Looking at ammoseek.com and it looks like the average price for 6mm ARC is $1.25 per round or $25 per box of 20. You can find it cheaper other places compared to MidwayUSA. Last time I bought any was when I stopped in at Graf's Reloading Supply's store in Mexico, Mo. I paid $28 per box after tax for Hornady 108Gr 6 ARC ammo.

Great info! I've heard midwayusa.com isnt the cheapest, but it seems like they have a good selection, and they have a TON of different calibers. It's just easier to compare on there. I can always find a better deal.

 

[Sanderguy777]

You seem price sensitive and you said "for most of my 100, maybe 200yd shots".

The 350 Legend is deer capable of over 200 yards with good shot placement. However, hold over and wind drift are more of an issue than with the 6.5 / 6.8 stuff. If it is windy and you do not claim to be great with drift estimations, staying under 150 yards is probably a good idea. But from 150 yards in, the 350L is petty ideal.

145 FMJ practice ammo for the 350L is as low as around $0.65 / round and hunting ammo can be had for under $1.00 / round.

Lets Assume you would consider the 350L a your "big" A-15. The following will probably do you just as well (if not better) than spending on name brand products.

I actually recommend recommend building a "generic lower" (PSA, Anderson, etc) but getting a good drop in trigger should get you an extremely functional lower (hard to beat without going 3x on price) and going with a 20" 223 Wilde upper from PSA (or similar). Alternately, going with a complete PSA 223 Wilde gun is not a bad way to start off. Do not be afraid of PSA, their AR stuff just plain works the vast majority of the time and I consider their customer service as a strong point. Later if you want a "big upgrade" then just swap out the trigger (easy with a drop in). My PSA 223 Wilde upper shoots 1.5 MOA or so with the cheapest bullets I could find.

For a 350L upper, shop around. I would be willing to spend a little more on the 350L upper. It is a little more "tricky" to get right than some other rounds. Note that if you like a gun that is "handy", the 350L will do just fine even with a 16" or 18" barrel. Plan to buy a "350L" specific magazine.

The 350L just seemed like a wimpy cartridge. I think 150 yards would be the long end of my shots, but I'd like more range than that if I can get it. I'd like to be able to put something down to 300 yards if I need to, rather than see something and never be able to take the shot. I agree it's cheap though. Maybe I'll take another look, though. Really depends on the terrain I find myself hunting. If it's really brushy, this might be the best option. (And at $0.65 each, it might be a great target round. Not only can I get deer, but I can blast steel all day for cheap!)

I’ll be honest. Nothing about that IWI screams “quality” any more than the S&W or Ruger options that are better priced. When I think of high end ARs my mind goes to Geissele, Radian, JP Enterprises, Noveske, LMT, Bravo Company, Daniel Defense, LWRC, KAC and POF-USA. IWI has put out a lot of mediocre products over the years and people buy them because they are “Israeli” and Israel is always at war, so their weapons must be great, right? Meh…not so much.

If you already have a SCAR, that’s what I would use. I’ve had a couple of 17s and they weren’t really for me, but they are great rifles and I killed plenty of deer and pigs with them.

I WISH I has a scar. I just looked at the prices, which rivaled my pickup LOL.

Also, I wasn't saying that IWI was top end. I just meant it is built pretty well, considering the price. Everything I've seen for reviews of the Z15 was "it's durable, will do what you need, and will do it every time." I understand that there are more premium, even just generally better guns. I just saw it, and based on what I've heard, they're about as good as you get for the price (especially with the b5 furniture, which a lot of reviews say is one of the first upgrades they want on any AR.)

 

[Pat Riot]

Does the sfar come in 6.5CM? and are they reliable? (I know ruger is good, but I want bulletproof if I can get it).

I have an SFAR. So far I have put a little over 200 rounds through it and it runs great. It is chambered in .308. It’s accurate with 7.62 NATO and FMJ .308 ammo. I think it’s about time to build some loads for it and see how accurate it can be.
I got the one with the 16” barrel. I want to eventually get a suppressor for it and I didn’t want the gun to be too long.

 

[Sanderguy777]

I have an SFAR. So far I have put a little over 200 rounds through it and it runs great. It is chambered in .308. It’s accurate with 7.62 NATO and FMJ .308 ammo. I think it’s about time to build some loads for it and see how accurate it can be.
I got the one with the 16” barrel. I want to eventually get a suppressor for it and I didn’t want the gun to be too long.

View attachment 1165022

Pretty cool! Is that an ar10, or ar15 platform? Are there any add-ons for that platform (I mean other barrels and chamberings.)

 

[Varminterror]

Pretty cool! Is that an ar10, or ar15 platform? Are there any add-ons for that platform (I mean other barrels and chamberings.)

Ruger SFAR are neither AR-15 or AR-10. They’re an intermediate scale.

 

[Pat Riot]

Pretty cool! Is that an ar10, or ar15 platform? Are there any add-ons for that platform (I mean other barrels and chamberings.)

The SFAR is basically a stretched AR-15. Some parts that fit the AR-15 work on the SFAR. I changed the charging handle because I put a scope on it. It uses an AR-15 charging handle. I wanted to use a Magpul BAD lever (battery assist device). This is basically a bolt release lever you can actuate with your trigger finger. The BAD is not reliable because the frame / lower receiver is beefier (thicker) where the bolt catch is positioned so the BAD doesn’t allow the bolt catch to fully engage. Also, I think the bolt is an AR-10 configuration.

Right now Ruger only has the SFAR in .308. I have no idea if one could swap the barrel or reconfigure the gun for another caliber.
I bought it because it was a .308.

 

[perldog007]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're talking about 2 different ARs. 6.5 Creedmoor has to be in a large frame AR, like .308 (think AR10). The .223 Wylde will take any .223 or 5.56x45 ammo and shoot it relatively well, but that's out of an AR15 frame. If you're looking for some kind of hunting (not sure what the game is you're wanting to hunt), look at 6.5 Grendel, 224 Valkyrie, 6mm ARC. The best way to do it is to have 2 uppers for the lower. One upper for the .223 Wylde and the other upper for the hunting you plan on doing.

You've got a lot more homework to do.

Navy vet ( no rifle training ) and new to modern rifles. How much does the lower affect accuracy? I tried the m&p 15-22 and liked it.
Found a cheap dti-15 and got it for close range critter control. Half acre yard in town. Occassional deer, coyotes, bears. All normally no issue..
Have a psa .300 aac upper. Wonder if it is work taking to the range on the del-ton lower?
Was told the looseness between upper and lower was typical in recruit depot examples, but that the dt1-15 could miss a 30" circle at 600yds all day. Honest outlaw said 5moa.
So great for the intended purpose. Even in East TN, popping a bear in your garbage can will land your defense tool in ye olde property room oft times.
But will it hunt? ( less than three MOA )

 

[mongoslow]

one of my hunting rifles is this Ruger MPR in 350L, I use the Hornady American Whitetail 170gr interlock ammo, bit I've also read that the 150gr Deer Season XP is pretty knarly also, and Barnes is making a 170gr Vortex TX copper for the 350L too

 

[holl]

I did this same project last year. I purchased a FN carbine and outfitted it the way I wanted it. I then added a BCA 6.5 grendel upper for deer hunting. I mounted a low power Leupold scope to the grendel upper and got some 5 round grendel mags for hunting from Alexander Arms. It all fits in one case and I couldn't be happier with the setup.

 

[Sanderguy777]

Ruger SFAR are neither AR-15 or AR-10. They’re an intermediate scale.

Oh, ok. Thanks.

The SFAR is basically a stretched AR-15. Some parts that fit the AR-15 work on the SFAR. I changed the charging handle because I put a scope on it. It uses an AR-15 charging handle. I wanted to use a Magpul BAD lever (battery assist device). This is basically a bolt release lever you can actuate with your trigger finger. The BAD is not reliable because the frame / lower receiver is beefier (thicker) where the bolt catch is positioned so the BAD doesn’t allow the bolt catch to fully engage. Also, I think the bolt is an AR-10 configuration.

Right now Ruger only has the SFAR in .308. I have no idea if one could swap the barrel or reconfigure the gun for another caliber.
I bought it because it was a .308.

Ok, so it sounds like it's a gamble whether anything would fit or not. I think I'm going to get an ar15 in 6mm ARC. Its pretty cheap, and its good for my needs. Thanks!

one of my hunting rifles is this Ruger MPR in 350L, I use the Hornady American Whitetail 170gr interlock ammo, bit I've also read that the 150gr Deer Season XP is pretty knarly also, and Barnes is making a 170gr Vortex TX copper for the 350L too
View attachment 1165049

I think .350L is growing on me. How far were you with that grouping?

 

[mongoslow]

Oh, ok. Thanks.

Ok, so it sounds like it's a gamble whether anything would fit or not. I think I'm going to get an ar15 in 6mm ARC. Its pretty cheap, and its good for my needs. Thanks!

I think .350L is growing on me. How far were you with that grouping?

that's not a group, that's me shooting as fast as I can aquire the target, 10 rounds 150 yards with 145gr fmj, missed 3 but that's probably less than 1sec per round,
with the 170gr interlock and taking my time they will be an 1" or less, that MPR is tight though and has Ruger's improved trigger in it

 

[Sanderguy777]

I did this same project last year. I purchased a FN carbine and outfitted it the way I wanted it. I then added a BCA 6.5 grendel upper for deer hunting. I mounted a low power Leupold scope to the grendel upper and got some 5 round grendel mags for hunting from Alexander Arms. It all fits in one case and I couldn't be happier with the setup. View attachment 1165057

Cool! How do the Bear Creek uppers do, quality wise? I don't *need* the best, but I also want something durable. I've heard BCA is middle of the road cost, but not much about the quality.

that's not a group, that's me shooting as fast as I can aquire the target, 10 rounds 150 yards with 145gr fmj, missed 3 but that's probably less than 1sec per round,
with the 170gr interlock and taking my time they will be an 1" or less, that MPR is tight though and has Ruger's improved trigger in it

Oh, ok. Makes sense. Is that better than I should expect a built rifle (budget, maybe PSA lower, and ok to nice upper) to do?

 

[Buzznrose]

Does the sfar come in 6.5CM? and are they reliable? (I know ruger is good, but I want bulletproof if I can get it).

Not yet, but I think soon.

I like my SFAR a lot (16”)

If you go with an AR15, buy a 5.56 gun and then you can choose many other calibers. Frankly, the easy buttons are 6.5 Grendel and if you want a big bore, either a 450 Bushmaster or .458 SOCOM.

 

[mongoslow]

Cool! How do the Bear Creek uppers do, quality wise? I don't *need* the best, but I also want something durable. I've heard BCA is middle of the road cost, but not much about the quality.


Oh, ok. Makes sense. Is that better than I should expect a built rifle (budget, maybe PSA lower, and ok to nice upper) to do?

well it was a touch over $1200 for the rifle so it's not budget but it's not a $2800 Daniel Defense either, the Sig whiskey 3 scope is a 2-7x32 I gave about $150 for which is plenty of scope for 200 yards

 

[Ranger99]

My experience and knowledge of AR's
would fit in a shot glass since I usually
do my hunting with singles and levers
and arrows. That said, my buddy and
his sons use AR's extensively, mostly
7.62X39's with a 6.8 thrown in at times.
They're very successful
A relative used a Colt AR, 30 some odd
years ago as his one and only.
He was very successful since he
understood that shot placement is
paramount in hunting game animals

 

[bearcreek]

OP, you mentioned in your other thread being "in" California. Is that where you live? If so, that's going to affect your options....

For what you describe, IMO, you should just buy a bolt action in the cartridge of your choice (I'd go .308) and be done with it. You're not going to save any money getting an AR and different uppers for it. If you want an AR as a fighting rifle (you should. All Americans should) then get a good quality one in 5.56.

 

[12Bravo20]

Cool! How do the Bear Creek uppers do, quality wise? I don't *need* the best, but I also want something durable. I've heard BCA is middle of the road cost, but not much about the quality.

And you heard correct about BCA's quality. You have have about a 70-75 percent chance of getting a good centerfire upper and a 50/50 change on their rimfire uppers.

I am going to make a suggestion that you either wait for better complete uppers or better parts are on sale. This is especially true when it comes to an upper that will be capable of shooting very small groups. I would not want to hamper the accuracy of 6 ARC or even 6.5 Grendel by going too cheap on the barrel. You don't have to buy top tier stuff but you also don't want the bottom of the barrel stuff either. I would suggest looking at Faxon or Odin Works barrels if you are wanting to build your own upper and are on a tighter budget. Since the 6 ARC is a very accurate caliber, it begs to have a better trigger than a GI trigger. The Larue MBT-2S is hard to beat for the money.

The 6 ARC uses the same bolt as the 6.5 Grendel. And some people get away with using 6.5 Grendel mags with 6 ARC while others do not. I have found that the ASC brand of magazines work well and are available with the correct 6 ARC followers. I know that ASC doesn't have the best reputation when it comes to 5.56 magazines but all of their 6.8 PSC and 6 ARC magazines I have work very well.

For your needs a 16" barrel will suit your needs. Now if you later decide to start shooting the 6 ARC at long distances then an 18" or longer barrel is better. The 6 ARC is very capable of shooting small groups.

I am running an Odin Works 18" barrel with +2 rifle length gas. The Odin Works barrels comes with an adjustable gas block, though I haven't had to adjust mine.

Here is my 6 ARC build



And here is how the rifle shot with both 105 and 108 grain ammo

108Gr - Green and blue was getting it sighted in and yellow circle is a 5 shot group at 100 yards.



105Gr - Yellow circle was a 5 shot group at 100 yards

 

[Sanderguy777]

well it was a touch over $1200 for the rifle so it's not budget but it's not a $2800 Daniel Defense either, the Sig whiskey 3 scope is a 2-7x32 I gave about $150 for which is plenty of scope for 200 yards

Wait, what was $1200? The upper only?

 

[mongoslow]

Wait, what was $1200? The upper only?

the complete rifle

 

[holl]

Cool! How do the Bear Creek uppers do, quality wise? I don't *need* the best, but I also want something durable. I've heard BCA is middle of the road cost, but not much about the quality.

My BCA has been great. Zero malfunctions and plenty accurate for deer hunting. I would certainly buy from them again.