Looking at ARs for hunting. What to know?

[Shawn Dodson]

Thanks! Yeah, it makes sense, I just hadn't heard of it.

I don't see either company making 6mm arc parts. Is the bolt or BCG the same as a 7.62x39?

6mm ARC uses a 6.5 Gendel type II bolt.

7.62x39mm uses a type I bolt (and many non Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel guns use a type I bolt). A type I bolt is incompatible with 6mm ARC due to its shallower bolt face depth (the bolt won't lock due to headspace issues).

There is no "6mm ARC" bolt - it uses the 6.5 Grendel type II bolt because both 6mm ARC and 6.5 Grendel have the same case head diameter and bolt face depth..

SOLGW 6.5 Grendel bolt - https://sonsoflibertygw.com/shop/6-5gbolt/

 

[Sanderguy777]

I am not sure if you reload, but this is a great bullet for smaller deer inside of 200 yards:

Speer 70 Grain SP

I have personally killed over ten deer and many more pigs with this bullet. I would have no problem shooting at most things with this bullet out of a 16" + barrel inside of 200 yards. Check out the reviews on Midway for additional information.

It might be an option to give you some time to think more about the 2nd upper.

Not yet. I was planning to, but with prices and everything the way they are, it looks like most of my budget is going to the gun.

Definitely sounds like I can find good hunting ammo though. Maybe I wait on the 6mm for another year, just get the .223 Wylde for the time being.

Any recommendations for good quality factory gun? Really good upper, and pretty good lower? Or even just something that hits 1.5 or 1 moa usually. Less than $1000 would be nice, but if that's not a thing, let me know what a good price point for it would be. Or if factory gubs will be too much, then what upper would be best?

 

[Sanderguy777]

6mm ARC uses a 6.5 Gendel type II bolt.

7.62x39mm uses a type I bolt (and many non Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel guns use a type I bolt). A type I bolt is incompatible with 6mm ARC due to its shallower bolt face depth (the bolt won't lock due to headspace issues).

There is no "6mm ARC" bolt - it uses the 6.5 Grendel type II bolt because both 6mm ARC and 6.5 Grendel have the same case head diameter and bolt face depth..

SOLGW 6.5 Grendel bolt - https://sonsoflibertygw.com/shop/6-5gbolt/

Oh, ok. Thanks! I couldn't find anything about 6mm on either place at all. But this makes sense

 

[P Flados]

Based on this thread, I did some poking at places that do "generic" stuff (Primary arms, Aeroprecision, PSA, BCA, et. al.). For something bigger than a 300 BO in a standard AR-15, I got the impression that the 6.5 Grendel is currently the most popular and 350L comes in second. Nothing else seems to come close to these two. The 6.8 SPC and the 6 Arc offerings are few & far between. The 7.62 x 39 is a decent round, but not really ideal for a typical hunter in a "standard AR-15".

The above matters for future ammo availability.

 

[Sanderguy777]

Based on this thread, I did some poking at places that do "generic" stuff (Primary arms, Aeroprecision, PSA, BCA, et. al.). For something bigger than a 300 BO in a standard AR-15, I got the impression that the 6.5 Grendel is currently the most popular and 350L comes in second. Nothing else seems to come close to these two. The 6.8 SPC and the 6 Arc offerings are few & far between. The 7.62 x 39 is a decent round, but not really ideal for a typical hunter in a "standard AR-15".

The above matters for future ammo availability.

Yep, that was my impression. 5.56 first, Grendel and 350L distant seconds, and anything else is hard to find. Looks like I can get an Odin Works barrel for $500 with a BCG, though, so maybe that's the way to go. All I'd need then is a new mag, right?

And as someone else mentioned, I can hunt with a .223, I just need to pick my shots and use a good round.

(Edit: only reason I'm looking at the 6 ARC is cause I like more power, and it seems like it's only going to get easier to find. Speaking of... anyone know if Hornady black is matching or hunting ammo?)

 

[Varminterror]

These bolts (type I and II) have a documented history of greater bolt lug breakage and extractor breakage. A simple Google search will verify this claim.

“Documented” and “verified” by forum posts by random speculators making unfounded, unsubstantiated claims…

 

[12Bravo20]

There are plenty of 7.62x39, 6.5 Grendel, 6 ARC, 6.8 SPC, and other calibers that use cases with bigger rims than 5.56/223. If bolt lugs were a big issue, we would see a lot more examples of that happening. And we all know that a single Oh Crap wipes out ten Atta Boy's. And not everyone will post on forums, especially if they aren't having not problems.

I have also seen plenty of bolt lugs shear off with 5.56 bolts while I was in the Army.

@Sanderguy777 Hornady lists the 6mm ARC Precision Hunter 103Gr ELD-X for hunting, the 105Gr. The Hornady Black 105Gr BTHP and Precision 108Gr ELD-Match are both listed for target shooting. I know some have used the Black 105Gr for hunting successfully.

Here is a link to Hornady https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/#!/

If you decide to go with 6ARC and then decide to reload, there will be plenty of choices for hunting rounds since 6 ARC, 6mm Creedmoor, and 243 all use the same bullets. 243 will generally run lighter bullets than 6 ARC or 6 CM.

I see that you have mentioned Odin Works. I can say that I have been very happy with the 18" Odin Works barrel I have. I bought their barrel that also included the bolt. If you go with an Odin Works barrel that has the +2 rifle gas system, make sure to get a 15" free float handguard if you don't want the gas block completely uncovered/exposed.

Stuff for 6 ARC is becoming more available as time goes by. I just bought some Hornady 108Gr ammo yesterday for $25.99 per box at Primary Arms. PA also has 103Gr for $28.99 and 105Gr for $24.99

 

[drobs]

You cant just have 1 AR15 but 1 of your AR15's should be in 5.56. I lost track at 6 of them.

I killed this Buck with a 62gr Federal Fusion MSR 223 at a little under 100yds this past season using my Windham AR15 with a 1/9 twist.


3 seasons ago, I killed this Doe at about 125yds using the same round and gun.


The majority of my AR15's are from Palmetto State Armory. I also have the above Windham and a Bushmaster.

High dollar AR15's don't do anything for me. If I were you I would start with a $500 or under 5.56 PSA, learn the rifle, hunt with it. Then if you still want to waste $1500 to $2000 on a IWI or POF or whatever, go for it.

With Palmetto State Armory you save a lot of $ buy buying a Complete Lower and Complete Upper separately.

Complete MOE Lower $149.99

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-complete-lower-magpul-moe-edition-black-no-magazine-7065.html

Complete MOE mid-length upper $309.99

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-5-56-nato-1-7-nitride-moe-upper-blk-with-bcg-ch-mbus-rear-sight-5165458948.html

Add a sling, and learn to shoot / sight in the iron sights, then add an optic.

 

[Sanderguy777]

There are plenty of 7.62x39, 6.5 Grendel, 6 ARC, 6.8 SPC, and other calibers that use cases with bigger rims than 5.56/223. If bolt lugs were a big issue, we would see a lot more examples of that happening. And we all know that a single Oh Crap wipes out ten Atta Boy's. And not everyone will post on forums, especially if they aren't having not problems.

I have also seen plenty of bolt lugs shear off with 5.56 bolts while I was in the Army.

@Sanderguy777 Hornady lists the 6mm ARC Precision Hunter 103Gr ELD-X for hunting, the 105Gr. The Hornady Black 105Gr BTHP and Precision 108Gr ELD-Match are both listed for target shooting. I know some have used the Black 105Gr for hunting successfully.

Here is a link to Hornady https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/#!/

If you decide to go with 6ARC and then decide to reload, there will be plenty of choices for hunting rounds since 6 ARC, 6mm Creedmoor, and 243 all use the same bullets. 243 will generally run lighter bullets than 6 ARC or 6 CM.

I see that you have mentioned Odin Works. I can say that I have been very happy with the 18" Odin Works barrel I have. I bought their barrel that also included the bolt. If you go with an Odin Works barrel that has the +2 rifle gas system, make sure to get a 15" free float handguard if you don't want the gas block completely uncovered/exposed.

Stuff for 6 ARC is becoming more available as time goes by. I just bought some Hornady 108Gr ammo yesterday for $25.99 per box at Primary Arms. PA also has 103Gr for $28.99 and 105Gr for $24.99

Great! Thanks for the info! I still think I'll pick uo the IWI rifle, and then slap on the 6mm ARC barrel. It has all the basics, and I think I should be able to swap out the barrels really easily.

You cant just have 1 AR15 but 1 of your AR15's should be in 5.56. I lost track at 6 of them.

I killed this Buck with a 62gr Federal Fusion MSR 223 at a little under 100yds this past season using my Windham AR15 with a 1/9 twist.
View attachment 1165500

3 seasons ago, I killed this Doe at about 125yds using the same round and gun.
View attachment 1165501

The majority of my AR15's are from Palmetto State Armory. I also have the above Windham and a Bushmaster.

High dollar AR15's don't do anything for me. If I were you I would start with a $500 or under 5.56 PSA, learn the rifle, hunt with it. Then if you still want to waste $1500 to $2000 on a IWI or POF or whatever, go for it.

With Palmetto State Armory you save a lot of $ buy buying a Complete Lower and Complete Upper separately.

Complete MOE Lower $149.99

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-complete-lower-magpul-moe-edition-black-no-magazine-7065.html

Complete MOE mid-length upper $309.99

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-5-56-nato-1-7-nitride-moe-upper-blk-with-bcg-ch-mbus-rear-sight-5165458948.html

Add a sling, and earn to shoot / sight in the iron sights, then add an optic.

I really like those numbers... But I was thinking of getting a complete factory gun to have as a control. If I take one apart, then I know how the next should go together type thing. But that kooks like I'd save about $450 going with the separate upper and lower, which means I could afford the new barrel I want, and probably a scope under $1k.

Will putting a great barrel on a psa upper work, accuracy wise? Or should I upgrade to a complete upper? Also, will yhe PSA lower affect my accuracy? (I don't know anything about triggers, so idk if I'd even be able to tell a difference between a good and bad one. )

 

[drobs]

Great! Thanks for the info! I still think I'll pick uo the IWI rifle, and then slap on the 6mm ARC barrel. It has all the basics, and I think I should be able to swap out the barrels really easily.


I really like those numbers... But I was thinking of getting a complete factory gun to have as a control. If I take one apart, then I know how the next should go together type thing. But that kooks like I'd save about $450 going with the separate upper and lower, which means I could afford the new barrel I want, and probably a scope under $1k.

Will putting a great barrel on a psa upper work, accuracy wise? Or should I upgrade to a complete upper? Also, will yhe PSA lower affect my accuracy? (I don't know anything about triggers, so idk if I'd even be able to tell a difference between a good and bad one. )

Outside of maybe adding a red dot, and a flashlight, I wouldn't change anything on the PSA until you get familiar with it - put a 1000rds through it. You can buy complete PSA rifles but there really is no point as PSA warranties their uppers and lowers.

18 year old kids (male and female) that join the military start with a basic rifle, or at least they did when I joined the Army in 1993. Do the same learn the fundamentals of rifle shooting. Then down the line add another rifle in a different caliber.

There is really no point in having 1 lower with multiple uppers when complete lowers are so inexpensive. I like Magpul furniture because it's easy to add a flashlight to the forearm. I also like iron sights because that is what I started with and my distance vision is still good at age 48.

You could also start with a very basic AR15. Either a complete rifle for about $500 + tax, shipping, and FFL transfer:

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-5-56-nato-1-7-nitride-moe-upper-blk-with-bcg-ch-mbus-rear-sight-5165458948.html

Or a basic GI handguard upper for $230

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-classic-m4-freedom-upper-with-bcg-and-charging-handle.html

With a basic GI lower for $100.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar15-complete-classic-stealth-lower.html

You will need a rear sight. So for under $400 you have a basic rifle to learn with.

 

[CraigC]

I really like the idea of swapping out barrels and stuff. Seems like a cool, and cheap option.

Seriously, it's a trap. Cool, yes. Cheap, no. It sounds like a good idea but if you're anything like me, you'll end up with seemingly innocuous leftover parts like buffer tubes, handguards and buttstocks morphing into a new rifle.

I'm a traditionalist and often hunt all season long with a flintlock. However, I have also put together several AR's just for hunting, out of a total of 12-13. At present, I have some parts on the way to build another. Started out with an 8.5" .300 braced pistol. Then I put together this 6.5Grendel with an 18" Grendel Hunter upper.

I love the UBR stock but it's part of the reason it's about a pound heavier than I wanted, so I tried again with a 16" barrel and landed at 7lbs. I used a B5 stock and a lightweight Vortex 5x prism.

The arguments against the AR10 platform due to weight have a lot of merit. Unless you're clearing hogs by the dozen, I really don't see the point. They are easily 2lbs or more heavier than a good bolt or leveraction carbine.

The arguments about carrying an AR versus other platforms also have merit and shouldn't be arbitrarily dismissed because it's not what someone wants to hear. AR's do not carry as nicely in the hand as a levergun or even a boltgun. I have VTAC slings on all my "black rifles", probably 20 of them and they are awesome. However, it is something to be considered.

 

[Varminterror]

Will putting a great barrel on a psa upper work, accuracy wise? Or should I upgrade to a complete upper?

In most instances, the “great barrel” is the dominating price added for the total cost of an upper. A lot of handguards can be pricey, but I typically spend as much on the barrel as I do on the rest of the upper components combined. PSA makes a ton of different upper options, but yeah, overall, fitting/bedding a great barrel into any upper with a free floating handguard will deliver commensurate accuracy.

Also, will yhe PSA lower affect my accuracy?

No, other than to acknowledge that mil-spec triggers are harder to shoot than quality triggers, so if the PSA lower is complete and has a mil-spec trigger, you might not be able to shoot the rifle to within the peak of your own ability, let alone within the peak of its potential performance.

(I don't know anything about triggers, so idk if I'd even be able to tell a difference between a good and bad one. )

Absolutely, you would be able to tell the difference between a good and bad AR trigger. There’s an exceptionally wide spectrum of triggers out there for AR’s, with standard/mil-spec triggers being among the worst of them. Drastically improving trigger feel is a very low hurdle. And trigger management is a fundamental of marksmanship for which those with lesser development will suffer more than those with greater - in other words: bad triggers are harder for lesser-skilled shooters to manage than they are for skilled shooters. What I might be able to do with an 11lb mil-spec trigger with 40thou of creep may well exceed what many less experienced shooters could do even with a 2lb trigger. So again, yes, you’ll readily notice the difference between good and bad AR triggers.

 

[CraigC]

But I was thinking of getting a complete factory gun to have as a control. If I take one apart, then I know how the next should go together type thing. But that kooks like I'd save about $450 going with the separate upper and lower, which means I could afford the new barrel I want, and probably a scope under $1k.

IMHO, this is a smart idea. It helps to be intimately familiar with the platform before you go taking one apart or building one from scratch. It's also a fair sized investment to gather the tools needed to do it right. Sure, someone will read this and post that they built one in an outhouse with only a pair of pliers and bailing wire but that's not really the way to approach it.

My suggestion is not to build one but to buy one. Any of the chamberings larger than 5.56 are worthy of consideration. I'm itching to see .400Legend components become available.

 

[drobs]

I also own and hunt with bolt action rifles. I had the Savage Special Order shop put me together a Left Hand Scout Rifle that I killed a Doe with 2 years ago. It's a heavy pig. My goal was to add my Dead Air Nomad to it. I did so only to find the gun to be just too unwieldy.



I've killed 2 hogs in Florida with Right Hand loaner 308 bolt action rifles.

I'm contemplating having Savage build me a Left Hand Hog Hunter rifle. This will be a lighter weight gun.

My point is there are many tools available to hunt with.

 

[Sanderguy777]

View attachment 1165504

Seriously, it's a trap. Cool, yes. Cheap, no. It sounds like a good idea but if you're anything like me, you'll end up with seemingly innocuous leftover parts like buffer tubes, handguards and buttstocks morphing into a new rifle.

I'm a traditionalist and often hunt all season long with a flintlock. However, I have also put together several AR's just for hunting, out of a total of 12-13. At present, I have some parts on the way to build another. Started out with an 8.5" .300 braced pistol. Then I put together this 6.5Grendel with an 18" Grendel Hunter upper.

I love the UBR stock but it's part of the reason it's about a pound heavier than I wanted, so I tried again with a 16" barrel and landed at 7lbs. I used a B5 stock and a lightweight Vortex 5x prism.

The arguments against the AR10 platform due to weight have a lot of merit. Unless you're clearing hogs by the dozen, I really don't see the point. They are easily 2lbs or more heavier than a good bolt or leveraction carbine.

The arguments about carrying an AR versus other platforms also have merit and shouldn't be arbitrarily dismissed because it's not what someone wants to hear. AR's do not carry as nicely in the hand as a levergun or even a boltgun. I have VTAC slings on all my "black rifles", probably 20 of them and they are awesome. However, it is something to be considered.

Yeah, that's true. Especially when getting a lower seems to be doable with $150 extra.

Not at all saying ARs are the only option, it's just the one I like best at the moment. (I'd like to get a lever gun and a scout gun at some point too.)

In most instances, the “great barrel” is the dominating price added for the total cost of an upper. A lot of handguards can be pricey, but I typically spend as much on the barrel as I do on the rest of the upper components combined. PSA makes a ton of different upper options, but yeah, overall, fitting/bedding a great barrel into any upper with a free floating handguard will deliver commensurate accuracy.



No, other than to acknowledge that mil-spec triggers are harder to shoot than quality triggers, so if the PSA lower is complete and has a mil-spec trigger, you might not be able to shoot the rifle to within the peak of your own ability, let alone within the peak of its potential performance.



Absolutely, you would be able to tell the difference between a good and bad AR trigger. There’s an exceptionally wide spectrum of triggers out there for AR’s, with standard/mil-spec triggers being among the worst of them. Drastically improving trigger feel is a very low hurdle. And trigger management is a fundamental of marksmanship for which those with lesser development will suffer more than those with greater - in other words: bad triggers are harder for lesser-skilled shooters to manage than they are for skilled shooters. What I might be able to do with an 11lb mil-spec trigger with 40thou of creep may well exceed what many less experienced shooters could do even with a 2lb trigger. So again, yes, you’ll readily notice the difference between good and bad AR triggers.

Ok, that's good to know. I'll take a look at a better trigger with whichever option I choose.

IMHO, this is a smart idea. It helps to be intimately familiar with the platform before you go taking one apart or building one from scratch. It's also a fair sized investment to gather the tools needed to do it right. Sure, someone will read this and post that they built one in an outhouse with only a pair of pliers and bailing wire but that's not really the way to approach it.

My suggestion is not to build one but to buy one. Any of the chamberings larger than 5.56 are worthy of consideration. I'm itching to see .400Legend components become available.

Why not 5.56? Are you saying it's too light for hunting, or that there are too many companies with low quality in that market? It's really hard to find 6mm ARC in a price range I like, so I was going to start off with the 5.56 and then mess with the 6mm afterwards.

I also own and hunt with bolt action rifles. I had the Savage Special Order shop put me together a Left Hand Scout Rifle that I killed a Doe with 2 years ago. It's a heavy pig. My goal was to add my Dead Air Nomad to it. I did so only to find the gun to be just too unwieldy.

View attachment 1165508

I've killed 2 hogs in Florida with Right Hand loaner 308 bolt action rifles.

I'm contemplating having Savage build me a Left Hand Hog Hunter rifle. This will be a lighter weight gun.

My point is there are many tools available to hunt with.

Yes, I understand. I am just looking at ARs right now because of the flexibility in literally every part of the gun.

 

[12Bravo20]

Black Rifle Disease (BRD) is very real and highly contagious. Even keeping any and all spare parts 100% segregated AND under lock and key will NOT keep said parts from turning into complete AR's. You have been warned!!!!!!!

Why not 5.56? Are you saying it's too light for hunting, or that there are too many companies with low quality in that market? It's really hard to find 6mm ARC in a price range I like, so I was going to start off with the 5.56 and then mess with the 6mm afterwards.

Doing it that way is smart. 223/5.56 ammo is normally cheap and easy to find almost anywhere you look. Plus it allows you to get familiar with the platform without spending too much on ammo. Right now one of the best ways to get into an AR is to buy a complete PSA lower and then buy a complete PSA upper separately.

If you decide to build your own upper then head varminterror's advice and get a good barrel. I personally won't recommend anything from Radical Firearms, AR Stoner, Bear Creek Arsenal** or some of the other bargain brands that are available. Definitely stay far away from places like Davidson Defense/Delta Team Tactical/Omega Tactical and any other names they run under.

To answer your question about 5.56 and hunting deer sized game. YES 5.56/223 will kill deer within limits. I would check the hunting regulations where you plan to hunt first. I know some states do not allow 223 for deer hunting.

** Yes I have my flame retardant Nomex suit on. The reason I will not recommend BCA is that their QA/QC is too hit or miss for me. The same goes for the other brands I listed above. Now if all you want is a beater range toy to shoot pin cans and are not worried about accuracy or quality then the above brands will be okay.

I am definitely not a brand snob, but I have been bitten hard by purchasing bargain brand parts and uppers in the past and I am only trying to save others some headaches.

 

[InTheSwamp]

If you decide to build your own upper then head varminterror's advice and get a good barrel.

Absolutely. When you build your own upper, you're considering accuracy. The barrel is the big variable.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Great! Thanks for the info! I still think I'll pick uo the IWI rifle, and then slap on the 6mm ARC barrel. It has all the basics, and I think I should be able to swap out the barrels really easily.

I hope you're swapping uppers and not barrels.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Why not 5.56? Are you saying it's too light for hunting...

Check your state's hunting laws. Where I live (Washington) we cannot hunt deer with .223/5.56. As a result I assembled a lightweight carbine upper in .25-45 Sharps for hunting Columbian Blacktail deer. (.25-45 Sharps is a .223/5.56 case necked up to .25 caliber. I handload Speer 87gr Hot-Cor for hunting. It's a nice cartridge.) This gun will go to my grandson when he gets old enough to go hunting with me.

 

[Varminterror]

I hope you're swapping uppers and not barrels.

He’s talking about buying an inexpensive complete upper then upgrading the barrel.

 

[Sanderguy777]

Black Rifle Disease (BRD) is very real and highly contagious. Even keeping any and all spare parts 100% segregated AND under lock and key will NOT keep said parts from turning into complete AR's. You have been warned!!!!!!!


Doing it that way is smart. 223/5.56 ammo is normally cheap and easy to find almost anywhere you look. Plus it allows you to get familiar with the platform without spending too much on ammo. Right now one of the best ways to get into an AR is to buy a complete PSA lower and then buy a complete PSA upper separately.

If you decide to build your own upper then head varminterror's advice and get a good barrel. I personally won't recommend anything from Radical Firearms, AR Stoner, Bear Creek Arsenal** or some of the other bargain brands that are available. Definitely stay far away from places like Davidson Defense/Delta Team Tactical/Omega Tactical and any other names they run under.

To answer your question about 5.56 and hunting deer sized game. YES 5.56/223 will kill deer within limits. I would check the hunting regulations where you plan to hunt first. I know some states do not allow 223 for deer hunting.

** Yes I have my flame retardant Nomex suit on. The reason I will not recommend BCA is that their QA/QC is too hit or miss for me. The same goes for the other brands I listed above. Now if all you want is a beater range toy to shoot pin cans and are not worried about accuracy or quality then the above brands will be okay.

I am definitely not a brand snob, but I have been bitten hard by purchasing bargain brand parts and uppers in the past and I am only trying to save others some headaches.

That's why I want a factory gun. Then I know what they are supposed to act like, and I don't get a headache trying to fix something I did or didn't do. If I do something wrong, that's onme, but I don't want the quality of parts to mess me up LOL.

Thanks for the brand advice. I'm just curious what specifically you had trouble with with BCA. Was it an accuracy issue? Just curious if I should even bother with them at all. I don't think I'll mess with anything of theirs unless it's for a junk upper for spending .223 money as fast as I can LOL

Absolutely. When you build your own upper, you're considering accuracy. The barrel is the big variable.

Good to know. I guess the BCG is important to reliability, but I didn't know if I could save some money by getting a cheapo upper, then adding a good barrel myself, as opposed to having to spend $800+ on an upper.

" I hope you're swapping uppers and not barrels. "

He’s talking about buying an inexpensive complete upper then upgrading the barrel.

Correct. I thought about swapping barrels, but I can afford $200 for a cheap upper to put the barrel amd BCG in. I've never swapped a barrel on anything, but I'm pretty sure "fast" and "easy" aren't the adjectives used to describe the process LOL

Check your state's hunting laws. Where I live (Washington) we cannot hunt deer with .223/5.56. As a result I assembled a lightweight carbine upper in .25-45 Sharps for hunting Columbian Blacktail deer. (.25-45 Sharps is a .223/5.56 case necked up to .25 caliber. I handload Speer 87gr Hot-Cor for hunting. It's a nice cartridge.) This gun will go to my grandson when he gets old enough to go hunting with me.

That's funny! Putting a bigger round in that cartridge doesn't seem like a good way to make it more deadly. I guess it's going fast enough, just not with enough mass to do what they want at the ranges they expect people to hunt at.

MO doesn't care. Any centerfire cartridge is fair game (or fair to take game with, I guess!) I want something more powerful, but I think I might have to wait a while. Really depends on what my finances look like after I get there.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

That's funny! Putting a bigger round in that cartridge doesn't seem like a good way to make it more deadly. I guess it's going fast enough, just not with enough mass to do what they want at the ranges they expect people to hunt at.

The rule is stupid. Anything less than .24 caliber is unlawful for hunting big game, but it's easily enforceable by game wardens.

The Speer bullet I use has superb wounding effects.

Where I hunt, shots over 200 yards are pretty rare.

I wanted a cartridge that let me hunt deer with my AR15 just by swapping uppers with as little cost as possible. .25-45 Sharps let me do that as I only needed to purchase a barrel (I already had the other uppers parts). I checked headspace using the bolt from the BCG of the 5.56 upper being swapped and that allowed me to just move the BCG from one upper to the other.

I also considered .277 Wolverine, which is a .223/5.56 case necked up to .270 caliber, but felt .25-45 had better performance for my intended use.

 

[CraigC]

Personal preference but I don't like marginal cartridges for big game and consider the .223/5.56 to be even less than marginal. It's a fantastic self defense, varmint and predator cartridge but for big game, there are far better options.

Black Rifle Disease (BRD) is very real and highly contagious. Even keeping any and all spare parts 100% segregated AND under lock and key will NOT keep said parts from turning into complete AR's. You have been warned!!!!!!!

See? It ain't just me!

 

[12Bravo20]

That's why I want a factory gun. Then I know what they are supposed to act like, and I don't get a headache trying to fix something I did or didn't do. If I do something wrong, that's onme, but I don't want the quality of parts to mess me up LOL.

Thanks for the brand advice. I'm just curious what specifically you had trouble with with BCA. Was it an accuracy issue? Just curious if I should even bother with them at all. I don't think I'll mess with anything of theirs unless it's for a junk upper for spending .223 money as fast as I can LOL

Starting off with a factory gun is smart even if you buy the lower and upper separately.

I have had accuracy issues along with some bad QC issues with BCA uppers. I want my rifles to be accurate and not just minute of soda can at 100 yards. One of the biggest turn offs about BCA was the major safety issues with their 22LR uppers and how they handled it. They had a big batch of 22LR barrels with the extractor groove cut way too deep with caused case ruptures. Yes BCA did replace the barrels right away BUT the issue was they were replacing bad barrels with bad barrels. I know some guys on Rimfire Central got at least three bad 22LR barrels from BCA.

There is absolutely no way I will ever own a BCA rimfire upper. Even their 22 WMR and 17HRM uppers won't run out of the box with out changing out the recoil buffers and and other parts. They went with a straight blow back design for both 22WMR and 17HMR while expecting an incorrectly spaced buffer and buffer spring to work.

I made the mistake of buying a Radical Firearms 10.5" 5.56 upper years ago. It patterned like a 12 gauge shooting buckshot at 50 yards. RF also has or had many QA/QC problems.

Davidson Defense and all the other names they run under is a big red flag for me. If you sell good products and have good customer service then there is no need for multiple company names to hide behind.

 

[Sanderguy777]

The rule is stupid. Anything less than .24 caliber is unlawful for hunting big game, but it's easily enforceable by game wardens.

The Speer bullet I use has superb wounding effects.

Where I hunt, shots over 200 yards are pretty rare.

I wanted a cartridge that let me hunt deer with my AR15 just by swapping uppers with as little cost as possible. .25-45 Sharps let me do that as I only needed to purchase a barrel (I already had the other uppers parts). I checked headspace using the bolt from the BCG of the 5.56 upper being swapped and that allowed me to just move the BCG from one upper to the other.

I also considered .277 Wolverine, which is a .223/5.56 case necked up to .270 caliber, but felt .25-45 had better performance for my intended use.

Can you buy ammo for it? Or do you have to load your own?

Personal preference but I don't like marginal cartridges for big game and consider the .223/5.56 to be even less than marginal. It's a fantastic self defense, varmint and predator cartridge but for big game, there are far better options.



See? It ain't just me!

What do you mean by marginal? My opinion is that it's just a little on the small side. But I have seen evidence it works on deer, and it obviously works on similar sized mammals, as per the military, so I wouldn't be completely opposed to using it. I'd just rather have something that I KNOW can punch through 2 shoulders without an issue.