Looking at ARs for hunting. What to know?

[CraigC]

And most commonly, you get what you pay for.

I had a business for several years building and rebuilding AR’s. A branded box isn’t a guarantee of function out of the box, so someone new to the AR may find themselves online reading BS from other misguided children which say things like “it takes a few hundred rounds to break one in,” or “just try a different mag” as a solution to obviously unrelated problems…

Absolutely. Remember that $200 Bushmaster upper I got from CDNN with the non-functioning BCG? Not trying to scare the OP, because they usually do run out of the box but things do happen with factory built guns and assemblies. My "budget" built AR turned into a much more expensive project.

 

[zdc1775]

I think I'll probably end up with a bolt gun in 6.5 creedmoor (it's cheaper than other common ammo at the moment, and it is definitely capable of 300 yard work.) Then I might be able to squeeze an AR out of my budget too. Definitely a 5.56, simply because the ammo is so cheap, and the price of other caliber ARs is higher, from what I've seen.

That's good info.

Wow! Thanks for the offer! I would be within a couple hour's drive from you, so I may take you up on that offer. I have yet to actually move there yet, and I'll have to get my feet under me first, but thanks for the offer! Out of curiosity, where do you shoot, and is it really a sub-200 yard hunting state? (Or at least the Southern part.)

Not to dissuade you from buying a 6.5 CM bolt gun, but the ammo prices you have listed are way off. For instance, using ammoseek I was able to find 6.5 G ammo loaded with the 115 Barnes TTSX for around $1.60 a round and the 123 SST for $1.30 a round, both of which are at least "good" bullets for deer sized game with the TTSX being better in my opinion. Granted the 6.5 CM loaded with a 129 Hornady Interlock is only $1.00 a round, but if you look at comparable bullets like 6.5 CM loaded with the 120 TTSX it's the same cost as the 115 TTSX 6.5 G round.

That being said, the 6.5 CM will give you a much more capable cartridge than the 6.5 G since it can fire the same ~120 gr bullets ~400 fps faster or heavier ~140 gr bullets, and those 140 gr bullets will still be ~200 fps faster than the ~120's out of the Grendel.

 

[d2wing]

In my opinion, an AR is a little bulky and noisy for deer hunting compared to a bolt action plus more ammo choices. But AR'S are good too. I needed to tape up the sling swivels.

 

[Sanderguy777]

I have a 25yd range in my backyard but could stretch out to 200yds or so on the private road in front of my house.
Otherwise I'll hit one of the many free Missouri Department of Conservation ranges through out the state.

My neighbor is a member of this range that has 800yds. It's about a 2 hour drive north east of me.

Big Piney Sportsman's Club | Houston, MO

bigpineysportsmansclub.com

I might join in the future.

Re hog hunting - it's still legal on private land. The Department of Conservation made it illegal on state land / the National Forest. Their reasoning is they are trying to trap them and shoot them from their new Helicopter. Instead of letting hunters hunt them in the National Forest, where they will spread out. I haven't looked into it recently, but last I read they weren't very successful using their shinny new helicopter.

Oh, cool! I dodnt know they had MDC ranges, or that they were free!

I read the rules and it sounded to me like it was open season, but they would rather hunters not take pigs because of their traps (no mention of choppers or the like. And they don't care if private property owners take them if they're currently harming crops or something)

 

[Sanderguy777]

Not to dissuade you from buying a 6.5 CM bolt gun, but the ammo prices you have listed are way off. For instance, using ammoseek I was able to find 6.5 G ammo loaded with the 115 Barnes TTSX for around $1.60 a round and the 123 SST for $1.30 a round, both of which are at least "good" bullets for deer sized game with the TTSX being better in my opinion. Granted the 6.5 CM loaded with a 129 Hornady Interlock is only $1.00 a round, but if you look at comparable bullets like 6.5 CM loaded with the 120 TTSX it's the same cost as the 115 TTSX 6.5 G round.

That being said, the 6.5 CM will give you a much more capable cartridge than the 6.5 G since it can fire the same ~120 gr bullets ~400 fps faster or heavier ~140 gr bullets, and those 140 gr bullets will still be ~200 fps faster than the ~120's out of the Grendel.

Exactly. My numbers are based on MidwayUSA, just because it gives me a lot of options, and a comparison of costs, even if they aren't the cheapest available (also, I like being able to look at Hornady whitetail, which is probably what I'll use, at least to start out. )

 

[zdc1775]

Exactly. My numbers are based on MidwayUSA, just because it gives me a lot of options, and a comparison of costs, even if they aren't the cheapest available (also, I like being able to look at Hornady whitetail, which is probably what I'll use, at least to start out. )

Understandable, might I suggest using https://ammoseek.com/ as it searches thousands of sites for you to find the cheapest prices and I have yet to find a caliber that wasn't in their database, but I have found a few obscure calibers that were completely out of stock in their searches (my best efforts weren't any better on those).

 

[InTheSwamp]

The MDC has banned hog hunting on public lands because they found that hunting tends to scatter the hearts of feral hogs. At least that is the reason they give

Not sure that strategy will work. Hogs will scatter and conquer new habitats whether you shoot at them or not. Centuries long have proven their resilience and adaptability.

Free the Missouri Hunters!...

 

[AJC1]

If I wanted a hunting AR. The pig guys seem to be very happy running the 110 black tip tsx in 300bo. You could run 150s super and be about 30-30 and then you could also play with heavy subs all in the same upper. I think it's your one and done option. The 223 isn't going to give you anything on the hunting field, and will just cost you more. If your hunting then take that extra cash and grab a high quality optic. I'd be considering a high end red dot.

 

[12Bravo20]

Not sure that strategy will work. Hogs will scatter and conquer new habitats whether you shoot at them or not. Centuries long have proven their resilience and adaptability.

Free the Missouri Hunters!...

It probably doesn't work all that well. But you would have to take that up with the MDC.

 

[BushMaster-15]

I was looking for a brush gun for hunting, but found that it's less of an issue than I thought.

I was looking for a lever gun, since I expected to be limited to straight walls, but thatbid no longer an issue, just that its centerfire.That being said, I started to look at ARs (because I can), and I really like the idea of swapping out barrels and stuff. Seems like a cool, and cheap option.

So, for a hunting AR, I'm looking at an IWI Zion z15, and two calibers to start. First is .223 wilde. I can shoot anything out of it, it's an accurate chambering and doesn't care about metric or sae standards. The second is 6.5 Creedmoor, which ill obviously need to add afterwards. (7.62x39 and .450 bushmaster are also choices, but .223 is the base model, and 6.5 seems better). It's obviously overkill for most of my 100, maybe 200yd shots I expect, but it's also very cheap, and if I'm getting a cartridge, I may as well get one I can use in an ar15 AND a normal bolt gun.

My question is: will that build be accurate past 200 yards? I don't plan on hunting that far out, but I'm curious what it acts like. I'm looking at the base IWI .223 barrel, but also the Bear Creek 6.5 Creedmoor barrel. Obviously it'll take deer, I'm just curious if there's another brand that really stands out as being really accurate in the sub-$1000 AR market, specifically with the 6.5 Creedmoor. (DPMS was the first to adopt it, but are they still any good?)

Thanks, really just looking for validation. Any suggestions for optics or barrels are welcome, but I think I'm set on the Z15 platform since it leaves me some spending money for other parts like the barrel and stuff.

.450 BushMaster aka The Thumper ,solves all your issues .

 

[InTheSwamp]

It probably doesn't work all that well. But you would have to take that up with the MDC.

It could be done with the right set of lawyers, but that's not of what we're discussing here. And I couldn't afford it

In FL private property, you can shoot them year-round for fun, ...

"With landowner permission, wild hogs may be trapped, shot or hunted year-round with no fees, licenses or permits required..."

Perhaps, some of the people writing these regulations have learned the lesson - 1539 seems like a long time ago, ...

"Trying to prevent wild hogs from coming onto your property can be difficult, but adequate fencing should keep them out of small yards and gardens."

On WMA, you need to follow their own set of rules.

https://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/profiles/mammals/land/wild-hog/

 

[Sanderguy777]

Understandable, might I suggest using https://ammoseek.com/ as it searches thousands of sites for you to find the cheapest prices and I have yet to find a caliber that wasn't in their database, but I have found a few obscure calibers that were completely out of stock in their searches (my best efforts weren't any better on those).

Thanks! I'll give that a shot.

Not sure that strategy will work. Hogs will scatter and conquer new habitats whether you shoot at them or not. Centuries long have proven their resilience and adaptability.

Free the Missouri Hunters!...

Probably won't, but it's the government, so its anyone's guess if they'll ever figure that out LOL.

If I wanted a hunting AR. The pig guys seem to be very happy running the 110 black tip tsx in 300bo. You could run 150s super and be about 30-30 and then you could also play with heavy subs all in the same upper. I think it's your one and done option. The 223 isn't going to give you anything on the hunting field, and will just cost you more. If your hunting then take that extra cash and grab a high quality optic. I'd be considering a high end red dot.

Hmm. Ok, I'll take a look. I'm actually leaning back towards a .30-30 lever gun, so this isn't far off.

It could be done with the right set of lawyers, but that's not of what we're discussing here. And I couldn't afford it

In FL private property, you can shoot them year-round for fun, ...

"With landowner permission, wild hogs may be trapped, shot or hunted year-round with no fees, licenses or permits required..."

Perhaps, some of the people writing these regulations have learned the lesson - 1539 seems like a long time ago, ...

"Trying to prevent wild hogs from coming onto your property can be difficult, but adequate fencing should keep them out of small yards and gardens."

On WMA, you need to follow their own set of rules.

https://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/profiles/mammals/land/wild-hog/

Are those the Florida regs?

 

[rayatphonix]

You can never go wrong with a decent bolt action rifle. I have an AR with a 6.5 Grendel upper that shoots very well and I can testify the round is well suited for whitetail deer. A couple of years after I got the upper I bought a Grendel bolt action rifle, and I’ve not shot my AR since.

 

[mavracer]

Hmm. Ok, I'll take a look. I'm actually leaning back towards a .30-30 lever gun, so this isn't far off.

300 Blackout is a bit less than a 30-30, but plenty for deer/pigs to 125 to 150 yards.
The 350 Legend is a ballistics twin to the 30-30, I built my 350 Legend to be a MSR '94 30-30.

 

[zdc1775]

If I wanted a hunting AR. The pig guys seem to be very happy running the 110 black tip tsx in 300bo. You could run 150s super and be about 30-30 and then you could also play with heavy subs all in the same upper. I think it's your one and done option. The 223 isn't going to give you anything on the hunting field, and will just cost you more. If your hunting then take that extra cash and grab a high quality optic. I'd be considering a high end red dot.

I actually just put together a new 10.5" 300BLK SBR that I'll be trying out this season for deer, shooting Barnes Vor-TX with the 110 TTSX. So far I'm really impressed with the performance, getting right at 2100 fps at 5 yards and shooting ~1.5" groups at 100 yards with the short barrel.

 

[Varminterror]

I've never swapped a barrel on anything, but I'm pretty sure "fast" and "easy" aren't the adjectives used to describe the process

Circling back on this thread this morning, this caught my eye…

In reality, changing an AR barrel is both fast and easy. Even changing barrels on many bolt action rifles is also both fast and easy - vise the barrel, drop the stock, spin off the action with a rear entry wrench rod (or use barrel nut wrench), vise the new barrel, spin the action on, done in 15-20min, takes longer to get out the tools than to do the job. AR’s take a little longer because we have to remove a few other things, but really aren’t so complicated - mount the upper in the vise, pull the handguard, pull the gas block, wrench the nut, and reverse to put on the new barrel. Done in 20-30min, while eating a sandwich. Sometimes stubborn taper pins on mil-spec FSB’s will cause problems, but these days in general, I tell most customers it’s just not worth starting with a mil-spec-ish clone with a clamshell handguard and pinned block; it’s easier to start with some other floating upper and just swap the barrel.

At their core, most barrels are just a bolt and a nut. AR barrels are kind of like a washer between a bolt and a nut.

 

[bearcreek]

Hmm. Ok, I'll take a look. I'm actually leaning back towards a .30-30 lever gun, so this isn't far off.

Seems like you need to take a step back for a bit and figure out what you are trying to do. Two days ago you were talking about bolt actions and 300 yard shots. There are positives and negatives to each of the three action types in which you've expressed interest. You just need to nail down what you actually want from this weapon. What's your budget for this endeavor? How soon do you intend to be in MO and able to hunt? If you're planning to be able to hunt this season, I'd prioritize the bolt action (in .308, if it was me). Most states have a minimum time of residency (6 months in many cases) in order to qualify for a resident hunting license, so you may not be hunting in MO this year, unless you intend to hunt as a non resident. If you aren't going to hunt this year, I'd bump an AR in 5.56 to the top priority and get the bolt action later. Lever actions have the cool factor (IMO) but they're more expensive and less capable, in general, than the other two, so that would go to the bottom. Or, maybe your budget is big enough and you can just go buy all three.

 

[CraigC]

Yesterday I moved a .300Blk barrel from one upper to another in about 30mins and hadn't done it in about a year.

 

[12Bravo20]

Missouri has a 30 day residency requirement to qualify for a resident hunting permit.

Any person who does not claim resident privileges in another state or country, and whose actual residence and legal permanent home address are both in Missouri, and have been for at least 30 days before applying for the permit. Owning real estate or attending a Missouri school does not in itself make you a legal resident.

https://mdc.mo.gov/permits/resident-permit-qualifications

Now as far as calibers and types or rifles go, one needs to determine what their needs/wants are. Yes 223 is legal in Missouri for deer hunting. But there are definitely better calibers available that will also fit into the AR15 . And there are is also nothing wrong with using a bolt action or lever action either. So decide what type of rifle you want.

I know I suggested earlier for a complete 5.56 AR since ammo is cheaper. But there is also nothing wrong with getting a different caliber for your first AR either. There are plenty of other calibers available that will perform better on deer sized game. And depending on what part of the state you hunt, you might not get a shot over 150 yards.

In the end I am going to suggest making a list of wants and needs for a rifle along with listing all the pros and cons of each platform and each caliber to help make a decision.

 

[Varminterror]

Kansas is 60 days unless you are the landowner, in which case, it’s immediate. Which is actually kinda dumb, because our taxation law is 30 days, whether you are trying to move here or not.

 

[drobs]

Missouri also has a hunter safety requirement. However, I hear folks are still able to get deer tags without it. I moved here in 2010 and at the time I could get free land owner tags (without having Hunter Safety) for having 10 acres. MO raised the acreage minimum not long ago. The result of which I needed to take the Hunter Safety course. I'd recommend it to new hunters.

 

[drobs]

Understandable, might I suggest using https://ammoseek.com/ as it searches thousands of sites for you to find the cheapest prices and I have yet to find a caliber that wasn't in their database, but I have found a few obscure calibers that were completely out of stock in their searches (my best efforts weren't any better on those).

I use ammoseek all the time but... they have a list of sellers that subscribe to their system. Their system doesn't search all ammo sellers websites. If you have an account (user name & password) you can see their list of sellers here.

Retailer Ratings & Reviews | AmmoSeek.com

Retailer Ratings & Reviews - Search best in-stock ammo, guns, magazines, and reloading components for the cheapest prices online 2024

ammoseek.com

Note Bass Pro, Graf's, and Aim Surplus are not on their seller list.

 

[Sanderguy777]

300 Blackout is a bit less than a 30-30, but plenty for deer/pigs to 125 to 150 yards.
The 350 Legend is a ballistics twin to the 30-30, I built my 350 Legend to be a MSR '94 30-30.
View attachment 1166063

I love that stock! Ok, maybe I'll take another look at .350L. I think that 6mm ARC is a better option for ballistics, but it is so new, it probably doesn't have as many bullet options from factory ammo.

I actually just put together a new 10.5" 300BLK SBR that I'll be trying out this season for deer, shooting Barnes Vor-TX with the 110 TTSX. So far I'm really impressed with the performance, getting right at 2100 fps at 5 yards and shooting ~1.5" groups at 100 yards with the short barrel.

I'm trying to save money, and you're over here talking about Barnes LOL.

I might try them someday, but probably only if I draw a super rare tag. Otherwise, I'll probably just be happy with Hornady Whitetail. But that is pretty cool considering how short the barrel is. I'll be using a 16"+ barrel, so the ballistics will be better, even.

Circling back on this thread this morning, this caught my eye…

In reality, changing an AR barrel is both fast and easy. Even changing barrels on many bolt action rifles is also both fast and easy - vise the barrel, drop the stock, spin off the action with a rear entry wrench rod (or use barrel nut wrench), vise the new barrel, spin the action on, done in 15-20min, takes longer to get out the tools than to do the job. AR’s take a little longer because we have to remove a few other things, but really aren’t so complicated - mount the upper in the vise, pull the handguard, pull the gas block, wrench the nut, and reverse to put on the new barrel. Done in 20-30min, while eating a sandwich. Sometimes stubborn taper pins on mil-spec FSB’s will cause problems, but these days in general, I tell most customers it’s just not worth starting with a mil-spec-ish clone with a clamshell handguard and pinned block; it’s easier to start with some other floating upper and just swap the barrel.

At their core, most barrels are just a bolt and a nut. AR barrels are kind of like a washer between a bolt and a nut.

Good to know the times involved. I was comparing it to swapping uppers, which is likely a job counted in seconds.

But that info is good. I didn't know till recently that barrels weren't part of the action LOL. I guess I thought it was all one piece

Seems like you need to take a step back for a bit and figure out what you are trying to do. Two days ago you were talking about bolt actions and 300 yard shots. There are positives and negatives to each of the three action types in which you've expressed interest. You just need to nail down what you actually want from this weapon. What's your budget for this endeavor? How soon do you intend to be in MO and able to hunt? If you're planning to be able to hunt this season, I'd prioritize the bolt action (in .308, if it was me). Most states have a minimum time of residency (6 months in many cases) in order to qualify for a resident hunting license, so you may not be hunting in MO this year, unless you intend to hunt as a non resident. If you aren't going to hunt this year, I'd bump an AR in 5.56 to the top priority and get the bolt action later. Lever actions have the cool factor (IMO) but they're more expensive and less capable, in general, than the other two, so that would go to the bottom. Or, maybe your budget is big enough and you can just go buy all three.

I wish! No, my budget is $1500. Enough for 2 of the 3, if I don't get any optics, and whatever secondary fees the government tacks on aren't too bad. I think the wise choice is a bolt gun and scope. Then next year I toss in a mod barrel to make it a scout rifle. Otherwise, an AR in 6mm would be good, but the prices I've seen look like I'd be looking at most or all my money going to the gun, before ammo or anything else comes into play.

Missouri has a 30 day residency requirement to qualify for a resident hunting permit.



https://mdc.mo.gov/permits/resident-permit-qualifications

Now as far as calibers and types or rifles go, one needs to determine what their needs/wants are. Yes 223 is legal in Missouri for deer hunting. But there are definitely better calibers available that will also fit into the AR15 . And there are is also nothing wrong with using a bolt action or lever action either. So decide what type of rifle you want.

I know I suggested earlier for a complete 5.56 AR since ammo is cheaper. But there is also nothing wrong with getting a different caliber for your first AR either. There are plenty of other calibers available that will perform better on deer sized game. And depending on what part of the state you hunt, you might not get a shot over 150 yards.

In the end I am going to suggest making a list of wants and needs for a rifle along with listing all the pros and cons of each platform and each caliber to help...

I'll definitely be making that list. I need to to make it all make sense (especially since I keep chasing my tail on things LOL).

Missouri also has a hunter safety requirement. However, I hear folks are still able to get deer tags without it. I moved here in 2010 and at the time I could get free land owner tags (without having Hunter Safety) for having 10 acres. MO raised the acreage minimum not long ago. The result of which I needed to take the Hunter Safety course. I'd recommend it to new hunters

I took that in Idaho. Definitely a non-negotiable imo. Frankly, everyone should take it, hunting or not.

I use ammoseek all the time but... they have a list of sellers that subscribe to their system. Their system doesn't search all ammo sellers websites. If you have an account (user name & password) you can see their list of sellers here.

Retailer Ratings & Reviews | AmmoSeek.com

Retailer Ratings & Reviews - Search best in-stock ammo, guns, magazines, and reloading components for the cheapest prices online 2024

ammoseek.com

Note Bass Pro, Graf's, and Aim Surplus are not on their seller list.

That's good to know.

 

[zdc1775]

I'm trying to save money, and you're over here talking about Barnes LOL.

I might try them someday, but probably only if I draw a super rare tag. Otherwise, I'll probably just be happy with Hornady Whitetail. But that is pretty cool considering how short the barrel is. I'll be using a 16"+ barrel, so the ballistics will be better, even.

They are expensive, but they are also my go-to for virtually all my hunting due to how well they perform. Reloading brings the price down a bit, but right now I don't have any 300 BLK brass and I don't want to put the time and effort into converting 223/5.56 brass so loaded ammo is the next best option.

Also the velocity difference from the 10.5 to a 16" barrel is only around 150 fps with 300 BLK, but I can completely understand not wanting to go the SBR route and dealing with the added issues that come with NFA items.

I mainly went that short for two reasons, 1 I had a register lower that was just laying around after I sold one of my uppers to a friend who was building a pistol before all that craziness started, and 2 I'm planning on adding at least one 30 caliber suppressor soon and with the suppressor I'll still be right at 16".

 

[Sanderguy777]

They are expensive, but they are also my go-to for virtually all my hunting due to how well they perform. Reloading brings the price down a bit, but right now I don't have any 300 BLK brass and I don't want to put the time and effort into converting 223/5.56 brass so loaded ammo is the next best option.

Also the velocity difference from the 10.5 to a 16" barrel is only around 150 fps with 300 BLK, but I can completely understand not wanting to go the SBR route and dealing with the added issues that come with NFA items.

I mainly went that short for two reasons, 1 I had a register lower that was just laying around after I sold one of my uppers to a friend who was building a pistol before all that craziness started, and 2 I'm planning on adding at least one 30 caliber suppressor soon and with the suppressor I'll still be right at 16".

Yeah, I understand, I was just joking. I mean, what I said is true, but I do understand that they are great bullets, and give advantages to you that a cheapo one doesn't.

I'd love to get an SBR someday, but I don't want to deal with the added headache, and I really haven't need for it, past just wanting to own one.