Looking at ARs for hunting. What to know?

[Sanderguy777]

Personally, I always try to shoot deer in the upper neck (I know most people don't think that's ethical because it's too easy to miss or wound, but I have had excellent success with it for the last 20 or so years) since that wastes almost no meat and basically always results in an immediate drop. But that being said, that is more of a specialist shot placement and behind the shoulder is a much easier shot into much larger vitals.

For using mono vs cup and core bullets, I made that move several years ago when my 223 Wyle AR became my primary deer rifle. With the 64 gr cup and core bullets I was using before I felt that any shots into the "boiler room" (heart and lungs) beyond around 125 yards and I was getting subpar performance (still expanding nicely but normally not through and through, which helps with blood trails) so I started looking into more premium bullets, that lead me to the 60 gr Nosler Partition and the 55 and 62 gr Barnes TTSX's. At that time, the TTSX was available for around $30 per 50 vs $40 per 50 for the Partition so I went with those and they both shot great in my gun and had amazing performance on game. In my opinion, those bullets converted my lowly 223 from a 125-150 yards gun to a 250 yard one. Now given that about 75% if the deer I kill get shot in the neck at less than 125 yards any bullet, even cast lead, would work just fine for those, but for that 25% that are shot at longer ranges or shot in the heart/lungs the premium bullets give me a bit more margin of error.

Thanks! That's good info. I've been looking for info on what rounds people use and how far they work for a couple days (mixed in with finding what rifle I want LOL), but this is the first solid info I've found. Bullet weight and type, and expected range.

When you say upper neck, do you mean top half, or base of the skull? And do you call them or something to get their attention, or just time it according to the way they're behaving?

 

[mavracer]

I definitely need to work on getting a better understanding of their anatomy.

It helps a lot when the guy who teaches you to hunt is also a veterinarian and field dressing becomes more of an autopsy lol.

Seriously not hard to find a 3d model of most game online.

 

[Sanderguy777]

It helps a lot when the guy who teaches you to hunt is also a veterinarian and field dressing becomes more of an autopsy lol.

Seriously not hard to find a 3d model of most game online.

I watched a video where the guy did an in-depth course on where to aim to get the perfect double lung shot. It was pretty interesting. I think the way he taught it was a lot harder to remember than just shooting where you know the lungs are, but it was still good info.

I'll look uo those 3d anatomical structures for sure.

 

[BushMaster-15]

Thanks. No lead issue in MO that I'm aware of. But I'll try that bullet for sure.

I do have a question though. Regardless of the caliber I choose, is there a reason to try to shoot behind the shoulder of the animal? Or is it always better to just blast the shoulder? Obviously, you lose some meat, but you have a better chance of blowing up all the important bits.

The other question is, other than non-lead requirements, is there an advantage to mono bullets at sub 300 yard ranges? Core-lokt and the others have been taking deer for decades at those ranges. Is it penetration, or do they work better somehow? (All the hunting I did before was "oh, this is cheap," so I'm trying to learn as much as I can now.)

Yes it's the vitals area in most game animals ( about a 4-5" diameter ) heart lungs organ meat is generally thought of as dispensable ,as well as totally disabling the animal . It's a personal preference but I like a maximum weight retention with as much expansion upon impact as possible on Game animals . Dangerous game can be questionable depending upon species and therefore solids are many times recommended or mandatory, as is .375 cal. in specific game districts if hunting Africa .
As to mono bullets at those ranges Not in MY opinion " Speed Kills " the bullet needs to remain in tact regardless of the velocity . Energy distributed or transferred is KNOCKDOWN power ,penetration is vital for destruction . Everything is a happy medium . Don't overthink the situation 100's of K's of Game animals were taken with lead round balls and smoke-poles . Any reasonable weight and bullet with velocity under 300 yd. is gonna result in MOD ( minute of Dead ) ,provided You place the shot correctly .

​

 

[zdc1775]

Thanks! That's good info. I've been looking for info on what rounds people use and how far they work for a couple days (mixed in with finding what rifle I want LOL), but this is the first solid info I've found. Bullet weight and type, and expected range.

When you say upper neck, do you mean top half, or base of the skull? And do you call them or something to get their attention, or just time it according to the way they're behaving?

You're more than welcome, but please understand that's based solely off my personal experiences and that specifically was just my experience using .223. Using a typical "deer hunting" cartridge (basically anything from 243 Winchester to 300 Win Mag) mono bullets don't really add that much if anything for deer, they just tend to hit slightly above their weight class in my experience. Using 6.5 CM for example the 120 TTSX seems to perform more like a 140 Hornady Interlock than the 129 Interlock, all three kill deer easily but for something bigger like elk or black bear I would grab either the 140 Interlock or the TTSX.

And for the neck shots, I mean roughly the upper 1/3 of the neck up to the base of the skull. Basically draw a line through the center of the neck from the base of the ear to the shoulder and use the top 1/3 as the aiming point.

And I want to reiterate, that is a very advanced shot to take and I do not recommend it to beginner, or even novice, hunters.

I just happen to have a lot of field time hunting from growing up on a farm, in fact once I got a bit older and had killed several deer while actually hunting them my Grandfather had me fill most of the deprivation tags we got every year and that was done mostly using a 22 Magnum taking head shots at 50-75 yards from either a tractor seat or the bed of a pickup. I won't blow smoke and claim I never missed or even that some of the deer weren't hit with less than optimal shot placement I will say that I never had one any run off injured.

As to how I make those shots now, I'll just say that I am very lucky with my hunting arrangement, neighbors property, and my primary "meat hunting" stand overlooks a corn field with the longest shot being right at 175 yards and the stand is less than 250 yards from my back door so I let a lot more deer walk than I shoot. Basically I'm just extremely picky about what shots I take there. When I go "horn hunting" at the hunting club or on public land, I use a different gun so I have to be less picky about what shots I take. Hence the 300 BLK I recently built, it's going to be taking the place of my 35 Remington levergun, my old 30-06 or my 308 will still be used whenever I hunt anywhere that I think I might be shooting more than 200 yards, at least until I find something else that I want to use for that purpose (thinking that'll be another AR-15 in 6 ARC or maybe a SFAR in 6.5 or 6 CM if ruger ever releases it).

 

[Sanderguy777]

Yes it's the vitals area in most game animals ( about a 4-5" diameter ) heart lungs organ meat is generally thought of as dispensable ,as well as totally disabling the animal . It's a personal preference but I like a maximum weight retention with as much expansion upon impact as possible on Game animals . Dangerous game can be questionable depending upon species and therefore solids are many times recommended or mandatory, as is .375 cal. in specific game districts if hunting Africa .
As to mono bullets at those ranges Not in MY opinion " Speed Kills " the bullet needs to remain in tact regardless of the velocity . Energy distributed or transferred is KNOCKDOWN power ,penetration is vital for destruction . Everything is a happy medium . Don't overthink the situation 100's of K's of Game animals were taken with lead round balls and smoke-poles . Any reasonable weight and bullet with velocity under 300 yd. is gonna result in MOD ( minute of Dead ) ,provided You place the shot correctly .

View attachment 1166781​

That's my problem, I overthink it all; one of the many reasons I'm still not sure what gun I want. I mean, I know what I want, the problem is I don't have the cash for "all of them" LOL

You're more than welcome, but please understand that's based solely off my personal experiences and that specifically was just my experience using .223. Using a typical "deer hunting" cartridge (basically anything from 243 Winchester to 300 Win Mag) mono bullets don't really add that much if anything for deer, they just tend to hit slightly above their weight class in my experience. Using 6.5 CM for example the 120 TTSX seems to perform more like a 140 Hornady Interlock than the 129 Interlock, all three kill deer easily but for something bigger like elk or black bear I would grab either the 140 Interlock or the TTSX.

And for the neck shots, I mean roughly the upper 1/3 of the neck up to the base of the skull. Basically draw a line through the center of the neck from the base of the ear to the shoulder and use the top 1/3 as the aiming point.

And I want to reiterate, that is a very advanced shot to take and I do not recommend it to beginner, or even novice, hunters.

I just happen to have a lot of field time hunting from growing up on a farm, in fact once I got a bit older and had killed several deer while actually hunting them my Grandfather had me fill most of the deprivation tags we got every year and that was done mostly using a 22 Magnum taking head shots at 50-75 yards from either a tractor seat or the bed of a pickup. I won't blow smoke and claim I never missed or even that some of the deer weren't hit with less than optimal shot placement I will say that I never had one any run off injured.

As to how I make those shots now, I'll just say that I am very lucky with my hunting arrangement, neighbors property, and my primary "meat hunting" stand overlooks a corn field with the longest shot being right at 175 yards and the stand is less than 250 yards from my back door so I let a lot more deer walk than I shoot. Basically I'm just extremely picky about what shots I take there. When I go "horn hunting" at the hunting club or on public land, I use a different gun so I have to be less picky about what shots I take. Hence the 300 BLK I recently built, it's going to be taking the place of my 35 Remington levergun, my old 30-06 or my 308 will still be used whenever I hunt anywhere that I think I might be shooting more than 200 yards, at least until I find something else that I want to use for that purpose (thinking that'll be another AR-15 in 6 ARC or maybe a SFAR in 6.5 or 6 CM if ruger ever releases it).

Oh, yeah. I understand those are guidelines and not every situation calls for that. I lean on the side of the fence that would shoot a deer with a 7 rem mag, and move up for everything else, but I cant afford that either LOL. The .223 would be my go to ONLY if I didn't have another option, and I'd upgrade to something else as soon as I could afford to. The 6mm ARC seems really good, but the 7.62x39 and .350L would work, IF I knew I didn't need anything past 150 yard shots.

I'm hoping to get in touch with a guy from MO that I'll be working with soon, so I can ask about what the shots with be like. I'm sure I'll like whatever I get, but I think an old time .44mag or the like would be really cool. Again, I'd just be worried that I'd be 5 yards too far for it to have any hope. (But both of my deer in Idaho were taken less than 200 yards, more like 100 yards, and 20 ft LOL)

 

[45/30-06OKIE]

I know it's not the same thing at all, but 5.56 does a better job of penetrating steel than .300 aac. So it seems like .300 would be less effective, especially against bone in a deer or elk shoulder.

I'm sure that's not correct, but I'd be interested if you can say why specifically.


Why is 6mm ARC more likely to break? Bigger cartridges mean thinner bolt lugs? And how would I tell if the BCG would fit between uppers? Would it be likely to work between the same brand, just buy a different barrel and mag then see if it functions well with a snap cap or something?

My issue at the moment is that I have access to a pre-2012 savage 7mm rem mag and a mossberg .243 (which by all accounts is only good if you can touch the critter, and you still might miss LOL). I want something I can use that reliable and cheap, but still has plenty of power. .300aac is probably enough, but I'm a little worried that it will be too low power. How far have you hunted with it?

I see "lots" of people trash talking Mossberg Patriot rifles but my 270 and 6.5 PRC have shot very well for me. So idk what they are talking about. I actually had the guy at academy (who sells guns for a living) tell me they were junk and showed me that because you can move the bolt around when it's in the rear position... I can do the exact same thing with my Remington 700 so idk... sorry to get off on a tanget. I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you personally, I just don't like when people online talk crap about stuff they haven't actually used in real life lol.

 

[Sanderguy777]

I see lots of people trash talking Mossberg Patriot rifles but my 270 and 6.5 PRC have shot very well for me. So idk what they are talking about. I actually had the guy at academy (who sells guns for a living) tell me they were junk and showed me that because you can move the bolt around when it's in the rear position... I can do the exact same thing with my Remington 700 so idk... sorry to get off on a tanget. I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you personally, I just don't like when people online talk crap about stuff they haven't actually used in real life lol.

No offense taken. I haven't had a chance to use the gun,and all I could find online as to disassembly and the like was a guy rebuilding one. He rebedded it and added a higher comb. I forget if he did anything else. After all that, I think he got 2moa out of it. And he said that was about what he always heard about the model (800b, if you want to look it up).

The patriot is ok from what I heard, but Backfire did a video on it that had some major downfall. I forget what it was, but the Ruger American scored higher, and that one failed my criteria because it's only "95% reliable," action wise. If it doesn't work every shot, I don't want it for hunting LOL.

Now, what I HAVE done is take the thing apart, clean it within an inch of its life, and put it back together. The innards are so porous you could use them as lava rock in a BBQ. And the action was so stiff after I put it back together that I almost lost grip on the stock trying to use the action. I oiled it better, and it's a little better, but it's still WAY worse than the Savage 110 in 7mm.

As to the way the Mossberg I have access to shoots, I have no idea. But based on how the action is, unless I can find someone to fix it, I would never take it out hunting and shooting it would probably also be a nightmare. Oh, and the "safety" disengages if you pull the trigger 3 times (good enough, I suppose, but that's still scary!)

 

[45/30-06OKIE]

No offense taken. I haven't had a chance to use the gun,and all I could find online as to disassembly and the like was a guy rebuilding one. He rebedded it and added a higher comb. I forget if he did anything else. After all that, I think he got 2moa out of it. And he said that was about what he always heard about the model (800b, if you want to look it up).

The patriot is ok from what I heard, but Backfire did a video on it that had some major downfall. I forget what it was, but the Ruger American scored higher, and that one failed my criteria because it's only "95% reliable," action wise. If it doesn't work every shot, I don't want it for hunting LOL.

Now, what I HAVE done is take the thing apart, clean it within an inch of its life, and put it back together. The innards are so porous you could use them as lava rock in a BBQ. And the action was so stiff after I put it back together that I almost lost grip on the stock trying to use the action. I oiled it better, and it's a little better, but it's still WAY worse than the Savage 110 in 7mm.

As to the way the Mossberg I have access to shoots, I have no idea. But based on how the action is, unless I can find someone to fix it, I would never take it out hunting and shooting it would probably also be a nightmare. Oh, and the "safety" disengages if you pull the trigger 3 times (good enough, I suppose, but that's still scary!)

Hmmm that's odd. Idk what an 800b is, it's not familiar to me... I do know apparently their first foray into rifles were NOT well received, like the ATR models for instance. You don't happen to have a torque wrench for the action screws do you? I'd try that first. Vortex sells a nice one that seems to work ok. It's about 100 bucks but I got mine on sale for 50.

 

[Sanderguy777]

Hmmm that's odd. Idk what an 800b is, it's not familiar to me... I do know apparently their first foray into rifles were NOT well received, like the ATR models for instance. You don't happen to have a torque wrench for the action screws do you? I'd try that first. Vortex sells a nice one that seems to work ok. It's about 100 bucks but I got mine on sale for 50.

From what I could tell, it's from between 1962, and 78 (I forget, might have been 68 to 72...). I like the look of the rifle, but the action is really stiff (worse than what I've seen on any ruger American on youtube.) Id be happy to hunt with it, but the parts are so shoddy im not sure it would function or be safe.

Why do the action screws matter? Is it for accuracy, or will that somehow affect the trigger mechanism?

 

[45/30-06OKIE]

From what I could tell, it's from between 1962, and 78 (I forget, might have been 68 to 72...). I like the look of the rifle, but the action is really stiff (worse than what I've seen on any ruger American on youtube.) Id be happy to hunt with it, but the parts are so shoddy im not sure it would function or be safe.

Why do the action screws matter? Is it for accuracy, or will that somehow affect the trigger mechanism?

Ahh ok I see... I didn't know Mossberg made rifles that long ago... Interesting.
And the action screws being too tight could put the action in a bind from too much pressure on the receiver or perhaps the rear screw could be barely touching the bolt when tightened too much? I just know that apparently having action screws too tight can cause issues and having them too loose will cause accuracy issues from the action moving slightly in the stock. I do know that most cheap aftermarket Remington 700 action screws are grind to fit but the HS Precision ones I got for my Remington 700 build worked just fine. They sell specific ones for adl and bdl stocks IIRC. Anyway, hope this helps.

 

[BushMaster-15]

That's my problem, I overthink it all; one of the many reasons I'm still not sure what gun I want. I mean, I know what I want, the problem is I don't have the cash for "all of them" LOL



Oh, yeah. I understand those are guidelines and not every situation calls for that. I lean on the side of the fence that would shoot a deer with a 7 rem mag, and move up for everything else, but I cant afford that either LOL. The .223 would be my go to ONLY if I didn't have another option, and I'd upgrade to something else as soon as I could afford to. The 6mm ARC seems really good, but the 7.62x39 and .350L would work, IF I knew I didn't need anything past 150 yard shots.

I'm hoping to get in touch with a guy from MO that I'll be working with soon, so I can ask about what the shots with be like. I'm sure I'll like whatever I get, but I think an old time .44mag or the like would be really cool. Again, I'd just be worried that I'd be 5 yards too far for it to have any hope. (But both of my deer in Idaho were taken less than 200 yards, more like 100 yards, and 20 ft LOL)

This is gonna get a lot of flack ,I'm sure !. The very best thing about an AR is the PLATFORM . YEP interchangeable versatile and accurate . Providing it's a GOOD or GREAT Receiver and Upper ,a solid foundation is what makes GREAT barrels perform flawlessly .

That said You get a .308 with eventually a 6.5 CM Barrel or ? and YOU will have the ability to take 98% of ALL North American animals .

Ammunition , Bullets ,Cases and Powders are ALL available for the choosing or factory loads . MY .308 loads were run of the mill 150 grain Hornady Match and I was sighting in My New Meopta scope . I had targets up on My 165 yd. range station for the 6.5 Creedmoor so that's the reason I didn't do 165 yd. sight in . I have My own range. My pistol range 0-50 Yd. and Rifles 165, 278 ,340 , 635 and 1044 yd. . Terrain high points dictate target sheds as well as distances ,as there's several gullies and two canyons traversing My Range . Those two platforms are Aero Precision and seem very stable and true . Don't let the telephoto pic of the range fool you ,it's further than it appears, measured by My Halo XLR 2000 . The 6.5 CM was factory Golden Target by Norma ,I have reloaded those empties in various flavors but as yet haven't had time to print them .

 

[Sanderguy777]

Ahh ok I see... I didn't know Mossberg made rifles that long ago... Interesting.
And the action screws being too tight could put the action in a bind from too much pressure on the receiver or perhaps the rear screw could be barely touching the bolt when tightened too much? I just know that apparently having action screws too tight can cause issues and having them too loose will cause accuracy issues from the action moving slightly in the stock. I do know that most cheap aftermarket Remington 700 action screws are grind to fit but the HS Precision ones I got for my Remington 700 build worked just fine. They sell specific ones for adl and bdl stocks IIRC. Anyway, hope this helps.

Ok! I'll loosen them and see what it's like. The whole thing feels like a cheap l, badly made toy. (The innards I mean. Other than the action feel, it's pretty nice on the outside). I plan to get a smity to look at it once I move, but it seems like it needs a TON of work.

 

[45/30-06OKIE]

Ok! I'll loosen them and see what it's like. The whole thing feels like a cheap l, badly made toy. (The innards I mean. Other than the action feel, it's pretty nice on the outside). I plan to get a smity to look at it once I move, but it seems like it needs a TON of work.

Hmm it may be more cost effective to buy a modern budget rifle instead then... After all, if it doesn't give you a warm and fuzzy when you pick it up, then it's kinda not worth having IMHO.

 

[Sanderguy777]

This is gonna get a lot of flack ,I'm sure !. The very best thing about an AR is the PLATFORM . YEP interchangeable versatile and accurate . Providing it's a GOOD or GREAT Receiver and Upper ,a solid foundation is what makes GREAT barrels perform flawlessly .

That said You get a .308 with eventually a 6.5 CM Barrel or ? and YOU will have the ability to take 98% of ALL North American animals .

Ammunition , Bullets ,Cases and Powders are ALL available for the choosing or factory loads . MY .308 loads were run of the mill 150 grain Hornady Match and I was sighting in My New Meopta scope . I had targets up on My 165 yd. range station for the 6.5 Creedmoor so that's the reason I didn't do 165 yd. sight in . I have My own range. My pistol range 0-50 Yd. and Rifles 165, 278 ,340 , 635 and 1044 yd. . Terrain high points dictate target sheds as well as distances ,as there's several gullies and two canyons traversing My Range . Those two platforms are Aero Precision and seem very stable and true . Don't let the telephoto pic of the range fool you ,it's further than it appears, measured by My Halo XLR 2000 . The 6.5 CM was factory Golden Target by Norma ,I have reloaded those empties in various flavors but as yet haven't had time to print them .

That's pretty cool! Yeah, .308 is definitely a better starting point than .223. The only thing I'm thinking is that maybe the ar15 is a more versatile platform than the ar10. I like the AR10 offerings a little better, but I only need .308 OR 6.5 CM, not both. And I don't need anything more than that (maybe .243, but probably not).

The ar15 platform gives me .22LR, .223, and 6mm ARC. all three are cheap, capable cartridges that are perfect for targets, varmints, and whitetails. The ar10 basically starts out at whitetails and moves up. And I didn't find nearly as many offerings for mods and caliber changes as the ar15. I really just need to figure out what the hunting ill be doing is like, before I really choose.

 

[Sanderguy777]

Hmm it may be more cost effective to buy a modern budget rifle instead then... After all, if it doesn't give you a warm and fuzzy when you pick it up, then it's kinda not worth having IMHO.

I'm definitely picking up a new one. I'll probably keep the mossberg though, if for no other reason than as a piece of history. It looks really nice, and I was hoping it would turn out well, but it looks like it was just not much good as a project. At least not in terms of physical stuff. I sure learned a lot about cleaning techniques!

 

[45/30-06OKIE]

That's pretty cool! Yeah, .308 is definitely a better starting point than .223. The only thing I'm thinking is that maybe the ar15 is a more versatile platform than the ar10. I like the AR10 offerings a little better, but I only need .308 OR 6.5 CM, not both. And I don't need anything more than that (maybe .243, but probably not).

The ar15 platform gives me .22LR, .223, and 6mm ARC. all three are cheap, capable cartridges that are perfect for targets, varmints, and whitetails. The ar10 basically starts out at whitetails and moves up. And I didn't find nearly as many offerings for mods and caliber changes as the ar15. I really just need to figure out what the hunting ill be doing is like, before I really choose.

A Franklin Armory trigger equipped AR10 is a hoot, just saying... I have one and I had a 308 barrel on it and I have been having major nightmare with 308 reloading so I'm going to get a 6.5 creedmoor barrel probably soon. 25 rounds of full power 308 loads get your attention lol. I will have to see how it runs with 6.5. Hopefully I have better luck with reloading that stuff.

 

[Sanderguy777]

A Franklin Armory trigger equipped AR10 is a hoot, just saying... I have one and I had a 308 barrel on it and I have been having major nightmare with 308 reloading so I'm going to get a 6.5 creedmoor barrel probably soon. 25 rounds of full power 308 loads get your attention lol. I will have to see how it runs with 6.5. Hopefully I have better luck with reloading that stuff.

I'll have to see what happens. Blasting Soda bottles with a rapid fore .308 sounds like a LOT of fun.

 

[TSchwab25]

I would look into a ruger sfar in 308, I'm looking to get one soon and it seems to have good reviews.

 

[Sanderguy777]

That's actually one decision I think I have made. I don't want one of the .308 ar15 hybrids. I like the idea, but no one has made a system that allows me to still use mini action calibers in the .308 chambered gun. I'd be ALL over it if they offered one with something like Tikka's capability to change the mag, barrel, and bolt stop and have a new caliber.

Unfortunately the platform would be a little more complicated than that and thus the parts are all proprietary. I just think that the two original AR platforms are more versatile as is, and buying a hybrid would just mean I spent money on something I can't really mod.

I might change that thought of I find that 300 or 400 yard shots are common, and that I'll need a light gun for hiking with, but then a Tikka will likely be the choice. (I really don't think those are likely scenarios though). I really think that it will be more that the shots are mostly 150 yds or less, and I'll just get a lever gun.

 

[dranrab]

The first was a 6mm 105grn BTHP impacting at 2510fps while the second was a 6.5 Grendel 123 ELD impacting at ~2500fps.

This is MORE damage than typically seen from conventional cup & core lead soft point hunting bullets, because most hunting bullets have the misguided belief that dumping half of their horsepower into the dirt is a good thing. I’ve put literally hundreds of deer on the ground in literally dozens of states - the hoopla about match vs. hunting bullets is just online dumbassery.

Have you found any "match" bullets that don't have adequate terminal performance?

 

[zdc1775]

Have you found any "match" bullets that don't have adequate terminal performance?

Can't speak to Varminterror's experiences obviously but I have had similar good result using the Hornady AMAX and ELD-M's and Berger Hybrids in 6.5mm and .308 but had subpar results using the Sierra Matchking in 6.5mm, used it on two deer and three hogs and it performed perfectly on one of the deer and one hog, the other three seemed to pass through without expanding.

 

[Ranger99]

Lots of good advice to sort out

Before I'd make any investment in
hardware, it'd be a good idea to
try to borrow or rent the configuration
of what you're considering purchasing
to make sure it's not awkward and
that you can shoot it accurately
consistently. If you can't make
bullseyes regularly, that's throwing
scarce money down the toilet, and
you'll need to choose another path

Good Luck

 

[Sanderguy777]

Can't speak to Varminterror's experiences obviously but I have had similar good result using the Hornady AMAX and ELD-M's and Berger Hybrids in 6.5mm and .308 but had subpar results using the Sierra Matchking in 6.5mm, used it on two deer and three hogs and it performed perfectly on one of the deer and one hog, the other three seemed to pass through without expanding.

Oh, good info! I'm no ballistician, but from what Hornady's podcast said about FMJs and match bullets, I'll posited a hypothesis. I wonder if the jacket on the SMK is thicker, so when the bullet starts to wobble, it can still handle the force. The two that did work probably hit bone and that affected their structural integrity enough to cause them to deposit more force into the animal.

In any case, that is the reason Hornady (or possibly Vortex podcast, idk) said that match bullets aren't really good for clean kills. They tumble and make an uneven path of destruction, compared to the consistent way a hunting round mushrooms and deposits it's energy pretty much all at once. The match bullet wobbles and only deposits force on the leading edge of that tumble, so unless you get.lucky and that force hits the organs you want it to, or the bullet just disintegrates in the right spot, you can just wound the animal. (actually, that's FMJ. match bullets tend toward to explode quickly because their jackets are thin, but your SMK bullets may have a thicker jacket and they acted more like FMJ than match).

Lots of good advice to sort out

Before I'd make any investment in
hardware, it'd be a good idea to
try to borrow or rent the configuration
of what you're considering purchasing
to make sure it's not awkward and
that you can shoot it accurately
consistently. If you can't make
bullseyes regularly, that's throwing
scarce money down the toilet, and
you'll need to choose another path

Good Luck

I think that's a good idea. I want a new gun, but I think I'll figure put the lay of the land and how I'll be hunting before I decide. (Unless I decide to just go cheap AR15, then I have some wiggle room, since I can get a cheapo lower and good upper and modify it as my needs change. As someone said, the 7mm and probably even the .243 would easily take a deer. My problem is that I want a new toy LOL

 

[illinoisburt]

AR10 as a hunting rifle may be just fine so far as caliber choices go but those rifles are generally quite heavy so probably not the best for stalking the wilds. Maybe if you can drive up to a shooting house and set up over a greenfield that's not an issue. Personally I use 7.62x39 for AR hunting and would be perfectly happy with 6.5 Grendel or one of the new 6mms (I think the jury is out on the legend lines. The moment Midwestern states drop the straight wall requirement those cartridges will fall from favor.)