Magazine disconnect stories. Anyone have any?

[Zaydok Allen]

So I was recently contemplating the magazine disconnect in my girlfriend's gun, and found myself just thinking "Why?". I guess I can see a situation where a person has children and want's to keep that gun on hand for bumps in the night. Child finds gun, child manages to pull trigger, but the gun doesn't fire because it has the magazine removed. Then mommy and daddy find child, explain "NO!" repeatedly, and then proceed to have a well deserved fight about leaving a loaded gun in the house unattended.

However, magazine disconnects seem like nothing but a bandage for irresponsible gun storage. If you have kids, you need to make your guns inaccessible to them, no leave it in an accessible place and assume the manufacturer's safety devices will keep your kid from blowing their head off.

I'm wondering if anyone can site or has a story where a magazine disconnect actually averted an accident, or was useful in some way.

To me they seem like nothing but a liability if you actually need your gun. If that mag isn't seated correctly, then the gun isn't going to fire. Bad idea in a stressful situation. Training should make it a non-issue, but I don't like them none the less. I also don't care for the fact that you have to first use the take down mechanism on my girlfriend's gun, and then pull the trigger to take the slide off. Yes, the gun has a training/dummy magazine thingy, but if I don't have that on hand when cleaning her gun, then I have to use an empty magazine. At that point I've already safety checked the gun three times and make sure there is no live ammo anywhere nearby, but I still don't like the function.

 

[JTQ]

I don't have any, but I suspect there would be some saves in the administrative gun handling/cleaning area. Many argue for the advantage in a gun grab, you could drop a mag if you're wrestling over your gun and make it un-fireable, but I suspect most advantages are in the administrative use.

There are so few guns these days that have a mag disconnect, that if you don't like it you can avoid it altogether. I'd think it would take some effort from the trivia lovers to name five or six current production guns that have the feature. If you like it, with some research you can find one. If you don't like it, it's pretty easy to avoid it.

 

[grampajack]

Isn't a magazine disconnect one of the possible points that a gun has to accumulate to get cleared for import?

 

[Zaydok Allen]

If you don't like it, it's pretty easy to avoid it.

Indeed, and I do. I'm curious though if there are any incidences where it actually was a benefit.

Isn't a magazine disconnect one of the possible points that a gun has to accumulate to get cleared for import?

Might be, but that doesn't explain Ruger's designs that use them.

My girlfriend has a Ruger LC9S. I've debated removing the device.

 

[CZ9shooter]

I believe the purpose of a mag disconnect is to help protect the many, many people who think that simply removing the mag completely unloads the gun. You hear it all the time. An "unloaded" gun somehow fired a round.

 

[grampajack]

Indeed, and I do. I'm curious though if there are any incidences where it actually was a benefit.

Might be, but that doesn't explain Ruger's designs that use them.

My girlfriend has a Ruger LC9S. I've debated removing the device.

There's no explaining a lot of the stuff Ruger does.

 

[Old Shooter]

If the mag safety does its job and the gun did not fire when five year old freckle-faced, red headed little Jimmy pointed it at mommy and said "Bang, you're dead" and nothing happened, what would there be to report?

(Other than little Jimmy getting the first good whooping of his life)

 

[Zaydok Allen]

If the mag safety does its job and the gun did not fire when five year old freckle-faced, red headed little Jimmy pointed it at mommy and said "Bang, you're dead" and nothing happened, what would there be to report?

Absolutely nothing, this will be anecdotal evidence and stories only. With a community as large as THR, and the extension to other gun owners that THR members know that are not members themselves, this seems a good place to ask if anyone knows of any incidents.

If a police report was filed, it's very unlikely that the mag disconnect helped.

 

[herrwalther]

I know California requires firearms on their approved list to have a magazine disconnect safety or LCI. Manufacturers are including them to sell to the commie states.

 

[Hangingrock]

The S&W 4506, MP9 and 9c examples that I have are equipped with the magazine disconnect. The magazine disconnect has never been a problematic feature in my usage of the previously mentioned weapons.

 

[JTQ]

If all guns had mag disconnect safeties, there would be no need for unloading stations. http://www.pacsafety.com/Unloading.html

The unloading stations were located at the door of every USAF LE/SP station. I'm sure our military or LE folks can comment on how many times somebody put a round into one of those buckets. The routine is drop the mag, rack the slide. However, the number of folks, in raw numbers, not by percentage, that rack the slide and then drop the mag is probably pretty large.

While using the feature as a "safety" for an unattended gun may be one of the advertised reasons, I'm pretty sure that is a distant third on why the feature was developed.

 

[cc-hangfire]

I've always read that one of the primary reasons was for LE use. If a law enforcement officer found himself losing a struggle for his handgun, dropping the mag rendered the pistol inoperable - at least temporarily.

Very limited usefulness in civilian defense or combat situations.

 

[Old Dog]

I've always read that one of the primary reasons was for LE use. If a law enforcement officer found himself losing a struggle for his handgun, dropping the mag rendered the pistol inoperable - at least temporarily.

That'd be true.

Believe Mas Ayoob explored this topic in an article or two way back when, actually documenting instances of this exact scenario.

What I can tell you is that since adopting a pistol that won't fire with the magazine removed, we haven't shot any more clearing barrels ...

 

[Varminterror]

I took a pistol course about 10yrs ago in which the instructor said he favoured carrying a mag disconnect featured pistol (only guy I've ever met which did), because in the event of a close quarters attack, it affords him the "last ditch opportunity" to dump the mag and help ensure his pistol couldn't be used against him. Personally, I don't buy it, but some people might seriously consider it.

As an engineer and wannabe gunsmith, I actually don't mind if a pistol has a mag disconnect on my personal pistols. They are typically very easily eliminated in many models, so having one gives you options, not having one means you can't have one.

As an instructor, I have been VERY glad to have mag disconnects on my Mark III and now Mark IV pistols, as well as the LC9 I use as a loaner in classes. It gives me extra assurance nobody is going to get shot inadvertently by one of my students, myself included, because I have an extra layer of control on my range - I tell them how many to load, how many to fire, and when to remove their magazines. Even if they mess up and leave a round in the chamber AND forget to turn on the safety AND break the firing line 180degree rule, that pistol still won't go bang. It also gives me a little extra assurance when teaching draw stroke mechanics, as I can tell the students to ensure their mag is removed.

Personally, I don't have any active mag disconnects on any of the pistols I use for carry, pleasure, or competition. I do reinstate them before I sell my pistols, which doesn't happen often.

 

[Saddlebag Preacher]

When we transitioned from revolvers to S&W 659 in our dept, we were trained to drop the mag in a struggle for our gun and it seemed we were going to loose it. Most of us carried a BUG then also. It has been used a couple of times I can remember in the early 1980's.

 

[Deus Machina]

I believe the purpose of a mag disconnect is to help protect the many, many people who think that simply removing the mag completely unloads the gun. You hear it all the time. An "unloaded" gun somehow fired a round.

This. At least as far as the common lawyer is concerned.

But, yes, the most I've heard from anyone is that it's for police and military. 1)The person on the other end is trying to wrestle it away and 2) the owner is likely to have another mag on-belt, which would correct the issue quickly once it's recovered.
In that case, it's just that the manufacturer has no reason not to design a pistol with one. Many agencies demand or want that feature. Manufacturers want LE contracts where they can get them. If they offer a model without it--it often costs less to make all the guns with it than it would to set two different assemblies--then it's on designs like Ruger uses, in which it would simply be a matter of leaving a lever out in place of a spacer (the Mark series) or doing away with a machining operation to fit a separate piece (the SR series).

In my case, they don't bother me much as long as it's not fragile and doesn't affect the feel of the operation much. It factors into a buying decision amongst similar prices, but won't chase me completely away from an otherwise nice gun.

 

[RA40]

I know California requires firearms on their approved list to have a magazine disconnect safety or LCI. Manufacturers are including them to sell to the commie states.

Some would have the "and" in several offerings. The Sig 229 Enhanced Elite has the fugly LCI flag on the slide AND mag disconnect "feature".

 

[the Real Alpo]

Many years back I read a magazine article.

Illinois State Police were the first to adopt the S&W 39. Shortly after this happened, a trooper was in a fight and lost his gun.

Bad Guy pulls trigger, nothing happens - safety is on.

BG pushes down slide stop, thinking it's safety, pulls trigger, nothing happens - safety still on.

BG pushes button, magazine drops to the ground, pulls trigger, nothing happens - safety still on.

BG finally finds safety, takes it off, pulls trigger, nothing happens - magazine disconnect prevents firing.

Trooper finally gets up from ground, draws weapon (I disrecall whether it was a BUG or his stick) and BG goes to prison ward at hospital.

 

[kBob]

While I do not like magazine safeties for my own use, I would be happy if everyone else had one.

I don't want one on my pistol because I would rather have a single shot pistol in my firing hand in the midst of a mag change than a no shot pistol for that second or two or three. If I am changing mags in a Live fire situation it is because I may need to shoot RIGHT THEN.

On the other hand I certain see the value of a magazine safety when folks are clearing their handgun. I believe that is what they were originally for, preventing "Friendly Fire" incidents.

As much as I love the M1911A1 type of handgun.....well story time......

Trooper A is on gate guard and has a 1911A1. Trooper B, A's relief, just got promoted over trooper A. B, wearing his own M1911A1 is approaching the gate house for a 03:00 shift change. A is talking to other gate guard and begins clearing. Stops clearing. C makes coment about B's promotion over A. A grumpily responds. C reminds A to work the slide. A does so. A is about to put away the 1911A1 and notices he forgot to remove the mag. Does so and notes hammer is back. Decides to drop hammer while pointing in B's general direction, from the hip, through plexiglass door panel while B is still about ten meters away.

There is a loud noise and a hole appears in the plexiglass.

kBob stares in horror from his tower position 20 meters behind B where he was watching B and his partner walking to the gate shack as B's helmet flies off and B goes supine on the grass. His partner D looks directly at the hole in the plexiglass then freezes as he sees B in the grass.

Everyone on the ground appears frozen like ants in amber for several seconds.

B sits up and begins a combination of prayers of thanks and cursing at A.

B had just fluffed his 'fro and his helmet had been sitting high on the black mattress it formed. 230 grain FMJ at 840 fps somehow passed between right ear and skull and all but the last little bit of helmet (a bare nick in the liner and no apparent damage to the pot) and plowed a furrow through the side of the 'fro.

This was followed by much running about and shouting by everyone but the witnessing tower guard who once he found out no one had been de-brained was more concerned abut loosing rack time than anything else.

After a long discussion between A, B, C, & D and a short statement by myself......it never happened. Sure looked and sounded like it did at 03:00 that morning though.

A magazine safety would have prevented that......even more surely than clear thinking and single mindedness.

-kBob

 

[MedWheeler]

cc-hangfire writes:

If a law enforcement officer found himself losing a struggle for his handgun, dropping the mag rendered the pistol inoperable - at least temporarily.

That was one of the points made in one side of the debate over this when I was on the job and autoloaders were coming into heavy play. The argument for the other side was that, if it was the BG who dropped or dislodged your magazine while trying to get your gun from you, you could still use the one remaining round to get him off you. It's very easy to run out of steam fighting with someone while trying to retain control of your sidearm. Shooting an unarmed individual who is likely about to become armed with your gun if he's not shot is typically a justifiable act.
If he did get your gun, he'd have only one chance to shoot you with it; you would do what you could to make sure that shot wouldn't count.

I'd say about half the guys I worked with favored one school of thought, and the other half favored the other.

 

[CDW4ME]

Magazine disconnect short story:
If a pistol has a magazine disconnect I'm not carrying it.

Same applies to internal lock, but that is a different story.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Well I guess one real life story where a magazine disconnect could have been helpful is better than none.

I do find it disturbing that there are apparently a lot of clearing boxes getting blasted. IMO distraction is the biggest safety problem with any gun accident situation. I've seen people do things they would never do if on their own. Chatting with buddies needs to be secondary to managing your weapon.

 

[Kano383]

While I do not like magazine safeties for my own use, I would be happy if everyone else had one.

I don't want one on my pistol because I would rather have a single shot pistol in my firing hand in the midst of a mag change than a no shot pistol for that second or two or three. If I am changing mags in a Live fire situation it is because I may need to shoot RIGHT THEN.

On the other hand I certain see the value of a magazine safety when folks are clearing their handgun. I believe that is what they were originally for, preventing "Friendly Fire" incidents.

As much as I love the M1911A1 type of handgun.....well story time......

Trooper A is on gate guard and has a 1911A1. Trooper B, A's relief, just got promoted over trooper A. B, wearing his own M1911A1 is approaching the gate house for a 03:00 shift change. A is talking to other gate guard and begins clearing. Stops clearing. C makes coment about B's promotion over A. A grumpily responds. C reminds A to work the slide. A does so. A is about to put away the 1911A1 and notices he forgot to remove the mag. Does so and notes hammer is back. Decides to drop hammer while pointing in B's general direction, from the hip, through plexiglass door panel while B is still about ten meters away.

There is a loud noise and a hole appears in the plexiglass.

kBob stares in horror from his tower position 20 meters behind B where he was watching B and his partner walking to the gate shack as B's helmet flies off and B goes supine on the grass. His partner D looks directly at the hole in the plexiglass then freezes as he sees B in the grass.

Everyone on the ground appears frozen like ants in amber for several seconds.

B sits up and begins a combination of prayers of thanks and cursing at A.

B had just fluffed his 'fro and his helmet had been sitting high on the black mattress it formed. 230 grain FMJ at 840 fps somehow passed between right ear and skull and all but the last little bit of helmet (a bare nick in the liner and no apparent damage to the pot) and plowed a furrow through the side of the 'fro.

This was followed by much running about and shouting by everyone but the witnessing tower guard who once he found out no one had been de-brained was more concerned abut loosing rack time than anything else.

After a long discussion between A, B, C, & D and a short statement by myself......it never happened. Sure looked and sounded like it did at 03:00 that morning though.

A magazine safety would have prevented that......even more surely than clear thinking and single mindedness.

-kBob

So, the guy A managed, all by himself, to:

1) Not clear his firearm

2) Point his firearm at someone he had no real business shooting at

3) Pull the trigger while his firearm was pointed in an unsafe direction

That’s quite an achievement, even for an ordinary-grade moron.

Magazine disconnect? Nope. A magazine disconnect wouldn’t have really helped, because then the whole thing would have gone unnoticed and that imbecile would have killed someone else some other time.

People like that should be issued water pistols, a shiny plastic badge and whistle, and sent to play in the sandbox at the park. I’m not sure how to go about weeding this kind of people out, but I doubt that this was his first display of unsafe gunmanship.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I got one:

Was down there in the back 40 a while back, you know down there yonder in the thicket. Well out done come a squatch! I drew my Browning High Powder pistol and wouldn't you know the mag came out and the mag safety didn't let me bag that sasquatch for the benefit of scientifical purposes!

I know what I saw. He's real.

I seent 'eem.

 

[JohnKSa]

I've seen a person pull the trigger on a loaded gun that was equipped with a magazine safety and had the magazine out at the time. The person was showing off the gun and there was no intent to fire it. When it turned out that there was a round in the chamber, the person who had pulled the trigger suddenly became very still and got a strange look.

There was another person besides myself who knew about firearms and we exchanged a look. I don't think the rest of the group even understood what had just happened.