Need help adjusting Dillon 750 for OAL

[tl511]

New here! Reaching out for help from some reloading experts. I have only been reloading for about 2 years. Just upgraded my press to a Dillon 750 with a bullet feeder.

My issue is that I can’t seem to get it dialed in to get an appropriate OAL of my 9mm.

Seems to be one of a few factors that are affecting this. If I bell the case mouth out even just to .380-.383 the bullets tend to feed down too far. By the time I’m seating it the OAL tends to be right around 1.098. Too short based on recommended minimums I believe.

If I don’t bell the mouth of the case out, the bullets tend to fall off when rotating the shell plate and that’s a pain.

Before I added the bullet feeder most of my rounds ended up around 1.126.

Feels like it must be a combination of a few
factors. Im using a Mr Bulletfeeder die with a 3D printer bullet feeder.

I’m using Blue Bullets RN 147g.
Any suggestions on how to find the happy medium?

Thanks!

 

[packetloss]

The belling of the mouth should have no significant bearing on the OAL. Just adjust your seating die for the proper OAL. I bell to around .383 and can adjust the OAL to whatever I'm looking for.

Keep in mind that with the 750 if you adjust the bell or the OAL with only one round on the shell plate it will end up different when you have 5 cases on the shell plate. You can never get it perfect such that every round going through will end up with the same exact OAL. Different headstamps will have different case lengths and that can cause the bell and OAL to be slightly different.

 

[tl511]

Let me clarify. Before I go to seat the bullet, it’s often around 1.1 or less. I’ve taken it out and measured it before the seating station.

 

[jmorris]

What powder funnel are you using? If you are using the MBF one, try putting the Dillon one in as it won’t expand the case as much.

The GSI feeder was great as they feed and seat at #4 holding the bullet as it’s being seated but you would have to find a used one as they are no longer made.

I would certainly make sure you have plenty of neck tension, to ensure you don’t get setback. At no point should bullets just “drop” into a case.

 

[tl511]

What powder funnel are you using? If you are using the MBF one, try putting the Dillon one in as it won’t expand the case as much.

The GSI feeder was great as they feed and seat at #4 holding the bullet as it’s being seated but you would have to find a used one as they are no longer made.

I would certainly make sure you have plenty of neck tension, to ensure you don’t get setback. At no point should bullets just “drop” into a case.

I am using Dillon powder funnel. I do feel the problem is neck tension. How do I adjust this? If I back out the powder funnel die the case doesn't bell out hardly any. Maybe I just can't find the happy medium.

Thanks for the help.

 

[packetloss]

Let me clarify. Before I go to seat the bullet, it’s often around 1.1 or less. I’ve taken it out and measured it before the seating station.

That doesn't sound right. Can you post some pictures of the case belled, and also one with a bullet sitting on it before seating that measures 1.1? Have you measured the bullets with a caliper? If I put any of my 9mm bullets on a case, even belled to .390 the OAL with it sitting on the case prior to seating would be well beyond 1.8.

 

[tl511]

That doesn't sound right. Can you post some pictures of the case belled, and also one with a bullet sitting on it before seating that measures 1.1? Have you measured the bullets with a caliper? If I put any of my 9mm bullets on a case, even belled to .390 the OAL with it sitting on the case prior to seating would be well beyond 1.8.

Will do! I'll try later this evening. Thanks.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

I bought one (Mr. Bullet Feeder) and never took it out of the box.
It was a choice of a bullet feeder or a powder check, I chose the powder check because nobody likes squibs.
But the Dillon powder feed is so reliable I can easily see why others would choose the BF.

 

[tl511]

Maybe this will explain better my problem.

This pic is before I ran it through the Dillon Powder funnel. (I skipped the deprimer station)


This pic is after the Powder Funnel station.



This next pic is a side profile of the case after bell of powder funnel station.


This pic shows the size of the neck below the bell.


This is after dropping a bullet from the feeder.


This is after running it through the Competition Seater die.


Size of the bullet.


I did not try to measure the inner diameter of the brass. But all of them are doing this. I do believe this is the appropriate diameter of 9mm bullets.
Any thoughts?

 

[tl511]

That doesn't sound right. Can you post some pictures of the case belled, and also one with a bullet sitting on it before seating that measures 1.1? Have you measured the bullets with a caliper? If I put any of my 9mm bullets on a case, even belled to .390 the OAL with it sitting on the case prior to seating would be well beyond 1.8.

I posted pics. As you can see it is around 1.1 before seating. Has to be powder funnel die I would think. If I back off nearly all bell, the bullet sits on top better. But then the bullet falls off most of the time when the shell plate rotates. There has to be a better solution.

 

[9mmepiphany]

You seem to have several issues contributing to the problems you're having.

The most obvious one is the diameter of your Blue Bullets. The common diameter used when loading coated bullets is .356"

To address your initial inquiry about your expansion operation, it looks like you're over flaring the case mouth. Besides causing the lost of neck tension, the excessive belling (trumpet shape) does not provide a "seat" to retain the bullet when moving between loading stations.

I recommend that the easiest solution would be to get rid of the Dillon expander insert and use the one that DAA provides if you were to have purchased their whole bullet feeder setup. It is available for the Dillon separately and provides the M-die profile to hold the bullets bin place as the shell plate rotates

 

[lordpaxman]

Welcome to THR!

I am using Dillon powder funnel.

I would start here, but then you said:

Before I added the bullet feeder most of my rounds ended up around 1.126.

Just to clarify the issue is it the case that adding the bullet feeder changed the COL to an unacceptable short one? Seems to me there was another poster not too long ago that experienced the same thing. I’m not good at searching this forum and don’t recall if the solution was posted. Normally changing one thing at a time can help pinpoint the issue.
The bell in your pic is way way oversized. Setting up the bell is a PIA - you need to adjust the die in small increments so be patient. As suggested by @9mmepiphany, you’d be better off with the DAA M style expander, it provides a step in the case so the coated bullet can sit there and it doesn’t oversized so there’s sufficient neck tension to prevent setback. Is the Dillon 750 funnel specific to 9mm or a universal one?

The most obvious one is the diameter of your Blue Bullets. The common diameter used when loading coated bullets is .356"

Blue’s normal diameter is .355”. if you want .356 you have to go to their “special order profiles” section where you can get them at .356”. I’ve loaded and tested both, and about the only difference was the .356” came in at a slightly higher velocity which was expected due to a tighter seal in the barrel. I’m running the 147’s but have the 125 and 135’s on the bench to see if I like their performance. Good luck.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

Do you have any gauge blocks to verify your digital calipers?
No offense but it appears to be the same El Cheapo model that my step son bought me.
As an ex-machinist the first thing I did was to check it's accuracy. It was off by .003 when I went past .250" Now it stays in the glove box of my truck in case I need it at Home Depot.
I have a very old Starett dial caliper that still works great, must be at least 60 years old.
Do you have a zero to 1 micrometer?

 

[tl511]

Thanks for the help. I do not have gauge blocks to verify. It Very well could be off. But the size does.

Welcome to THR!

I would start here, but then you said:

Just to clarify the issue is it the case that adding the bullet feeder changed the COL to an unacceptable short one? Seems to me there was another poster not too long ago that experienced the same thing. I’m not good at searching this forum and don’t recall if the solution was posted. Normally changing one thing at a time can help pinpoint the issue.
The bell in your pic is way way oversized. Setting up the bell is a PIA - you need to adjust the die in small increments so be patient. As suggested by @9mmepiphany, you’d be better off with the DAA M style expander, it provides a step in the case so the coated bullet can sit there and it doesn’t oversized so there’s sufficient neck tension to prevent setback. Is the Dillon 750 funnel specific to 9mm or a universal one?

Blue’s normal diameter is .355”. if you want .356 you have to go to their “special order profiles” section where you can get them at .356”. I’ve loaded and tested both, and about the only difference was the .356” came in at a slightly higher velocity which was expected due to a tighter seal in the barrel. I’m running the 147’s but have the 125 and 135’s on the bench to see if I like their performance. Good luck.

I do see that DAA sells an expander that you can use in the Dillon Powder Funnel. I may just order that. Thanks for the info on the bell. I do believe the funnel I have is specific to the 9mm as I ordered it with that setup from Dillon. I have used these same Blue Bullets with my other press and never once had any issues with the diameter of them.

 

[packetloss]

I posted pics. As you can see it is around 1.1 before seating. Has to be powder funnel die I would think. If I back off nearly all bell, the bullet sits on top better. But then the bullet falls off most of the time when the shell plate rotates. There has to be a better solution.

Just from eyeballing that bell, that is way more than .380. Quite possibly more than .390. I think you need a better caliper. With that being said, something else doesn't seem right either as even belled to .390 the bullet shouldn't be going that far in. The DAA expander is nice, but before you get that, I think you need to rule out some other potential issues. For one, I'd measure the case mouth after sizing the case and before belling it to make sure it's around .376.


Edit: Just noticed you have it at .381 after resizing and before belling. That is no good. You are not properly resizing the case. .381 is wide enough that it will let the bullet slide deep down into the case. All of my cases are .374-.376 after being resized.

Did you resize those cases? I just measured cases that I haven't resized yet and they are around .380. It looks like your sizing die isn't set up properly or you didn't resize these cases. Maybe you half stroked them?

 

[DanK3Pos]

Did you resize those cases? I just measured cases that I haven't resized yet and they are around .380. It looks like your sizing die isn't set up properly or you didn't resize these cases. Maybe you half stroked them?

I'd look there first. Also, do you perhaps have the wrong re-sizing die? I don't run a bullet feeder, but I have read that it is trickier setting up the expansion die. Also, 9mm is tapered, not straight wall, so if you over expand the case mouth, the bullet does fall into the cartridge.

 

[RBRK]

Without going over the whole thread. Reset your first sizing die correctly. Then You have to use the powder funnel expander that mr Bulletfeeder supplies with the dropper unit. It flares the case correctly to allow the bullet to seat without using a lot of flare. And the most obvious is that case is waaaaaaay over flared! Your caliper is fine it isnt that far off. You are stretching that brass way too much.

Im using one on my 750 and it works fine even up to 1.16 OAL. The Mr Bulletfeeder powder funnel makes it so the bullet will stay and not need a crapload of flare to keep it on top. My Mr Bulletfeeder came with the powder funnel stating that you need to use it.

 

[tl511]

Without going over the whole thread. Reset your first sizing die correctly. The. You have to use the powder funnel expander that mr Bulletfeeder supplies with the dropper unit. It flares the case correctly to allow the bullet to seat without using a lot of flare. And the most obvious is that case is waaaaaaay over flared! Your caliper is fine it isnt that far off. You are stretching that brass way too much.

I agree with all of these points. I ordered the Mr Bullet Feeder expansion die. I will reset it all once it comes in. Thank you everyone. I will report back with progress. You’ve all been a big help.

Can anyone tell me what diameter I should expect my brass to be after the sizing station? Then can anyone chime in with what size they prefer after powder funnel station?

 

[RBRK]

Are you using Dillon dies? Set the sizing die as per Dillon instructions raise shell plate then screw the sizing die down til it touches. If my memory is correct. I haven’t changed anything in a while. I always refer to the instructions. It should size your brass fine. I’ve never checked it. As far as flare with the mr bulletfeeder funnel, you will just have to try it a few times and get it to where the bullet sticks in the case. You can usually lift the projectile up and the case will come with it. It won’t bell the crap out of it like the stock powder funnel will. It’s more of a straight widening of the case. Don’t waste time measuring, your bullets will vary depending on what you are using,so a set spec won’t work. I use a Lee seating/crimp die since I have a powder check in one station.
I’ve loaded 1000 so far with the bullet feeder and it’s nice, 100 rounds in 4-5 minutes.

 

[9mmepiphany]

As far as flare with the mr bulletfeeder funnel, you will just have to try it a few times and get it to where the bullet sticks in the case. You can usually lift the projectile up and the case will come with it. It won’t bell the crap out of it like the stock powder funnel will. It’s more of a straight widening of the case

Just to expand on this a bit:

The M-profile expanded doesn't really "flare" the cases mouth (like a trumpet shape), but creates a "seat", with parallel sides, for the bullet to fit into. When you run a case through the powder measure, with the DAA insert installed and then allow a bullet to drop into the case mouth, you should be able to pull the retaining pin, remove the cartridge, and invert it without the bullet falling out.

Can anyone tell me what diameter I should expect my brass to be after the sizing station?

I've never measured, but know of two common solutions that consistently work better than the Dillon Sizing die when sizing 9mm cases. One is the Lee Undersized Sizing die and the other is the sizing die from Mighty Armory...interestingly they are on opposite ends of the cost spectrum

 

[tl511]

Thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge. It all makes sense and has to work together. I will implement the recommended solutions and report back.

 

[tl511]

Just want to thank everyone for your input. Think I got it setup correctly.

the key was buying the Mr Bulletfeeder powder funnel expansion die. After setting it up the bullets seated perfectly. The case flare is minimal and set at about .377

I then had to adjust my Redding Competition Seating die to the right size. Most of my rounds were shorter than they should have been, even though I never once had an issue with my loads.

https://imgur.com/gallery/3FLq2xL
It won't let me post image for some reason.

 

[RBRK]

What powder are you using? Also when adjusting the powder funnel, I would get it so it just will hold the projectile in the case, I wouldn’t try to set it up by using a measurement like you said .377.

 

[tl511]

Currently - Hodgen HS6. About to move to Vitihari 320

my loads were pretty light.

 

[RBRK]

Looking at the N320 data you will need to be around 1.157 OAL. 3.1-3.6 grains