New Uberti Pocket Navy with tight and long arbor

[mh2000]

In my last posts related to my new 1962 Pocket Navy, several people posted that they all came with short arbors, so I was expecting to have to shim it somehow with brass washers, but I got the gun last night and the arbor is if anything, a hair too long. But since the gun is pretty much overly tight in everyway otherwise, I'm going to "slick up" all the other working parts and see how it goes before filing down the arbor yet. The arbor is very tight diametrically as well--binds up just pushing it on... I expect this will wear in without any attention though.

Comments on the Uberti Pocket Navy vs. the Peitta 1851 Navy: the Uberti is certainly a more handsome gun, but the action on the Pietta was way smoother out of the box. The Uberti wouldn't even cock reliably out of the box and even after a bunch of dry fire exercises, it's still pretty stiff. I'll break it down this weekend, clean it and adresss any burrs etc., but since it is so tight, I expect that it will easily become a great shooter. Also, I wonder if the Pocket is just less smooth because the mechanisms don't scale down so well--anyone else who shoots both an 1851 and the pocket Navy experience this?

On the wedge, it is much smoother than that on the Pietta and unless I whack it in pretty tight, it was working it way out just under dry firings... don't think I'll just push it in with thumb pressure because I can easily see it popping off and the barrel flying down range! :O

 

[45 Dragoon]

Glad you like your '62! Congratulations!
The "smoothness" of the actions in either Pietta's or Uberti's is a crap shoot, you can't judge um all by any one particular example (just so you don't pass up a "deal"!).

The statement about the wedge loosening when dry firing seems to point to an arbor issue. Can you drive the wedge in and lock up the cylinder?
If you end up having to fix it, I would recommend steel instead of brass.

Mike

 

[mh2000]

Thanks! No, even when I really drive the wedge in, the gap between the cone and the cylinder doesn't really change at all. The hand pushes the cylinder forward, but the barrel/cone doesn't seem to move with the added wedge insertion force. What else should I check? What do you think would be off to make the wedge work its way out? The arbor slot beig off?

 

[mh2000]

The reason I think the arbor is too long is because if I put the barrel assembly on the arbor clocked, I cannot push it on hard enough to close gap between the heel of the barrel assembly and the frame, so it starts out with a small gap (around the thickness of a sheet of paper) and is only closed if I bang the wedge in pretty hard.

Thanks for thoughts!

 

[arcticap]

CapandBall found the Uberti gun also had a loose wedge when he compared it to an original 1862 Colt Pocket Navy. He suggests tapping it back in after each shot to maintain accuracy in case it loosens up during shooting.

 

[mh2000]

Cool! I probably watched that at one time, but missed that point! Also, good seeing that the original has jamming problems with the caps. Some writers claim that the orignals didn't jam like this and that it is just the lack of quality gunsmithing from the Italian makers.

Best!

 

[45 Dragoon]

One other way to check the arbor length would be to drop a thin washer in the arbor hole and assemble the revolver. If the wedge will pull the barrel in and the frame and barrel lug meet (where the frame pins are) then the arbor is short.

Another thing to look for would be the arbor slot itself. With the wedge out, looking through the slot (revolver assembled) you should see the arbor slot as the front bearing surface for the wedge. The rear most bearing surface should be the two sides of the slot in the barrel. If the rear slot of the arbor is flush with or forward of the barrel slot, the wedge isn't really doing anything.

Mike

As far as jamming, we are using modern caps instead of caps of 1860's construction.

 

[mh2000]

Thanks Mike! Will do those two things tonight.

 

[45 Dragoon]

You are welcome and good luck.

Mike

 

[Norton Commando]

Ubertis typically come with an arbor hole that is too deep. Even if you think that the arbor is bottoming out in the hole in the barrel, it's probably not. Instead, the end of the arbor probably jammed toward the bottom of the arbor hole without bottoming out. Measure the depth of the hole and compare to the length of the arbor extending beyond the cylinder. I'll bet you find more hole depth than you have arbor to fill it.

Best,

Jason

 

[mh2000]

I'll check this as well, but I gave the barrel a decent whack to see if it would go deeper, and it didn't. But I got calipers and Starrett messures and will find any old reason to put them to the test!

 

[mh2000]

>> As far as jamming, we are using modern caps instead of caps of 1860's construction.

Very true! Any modern caps jam less? I've been strictly using Remmington #10s.

 

[45 Dragoon]

mh2000, is this a new revolver?

Mike

 

[mh2000]

Yeah, brand new, so I have a couple days to exchange it if it turns out not ok.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Ha!! It would be something if they (Uberti) were in the process of "correcting" the problem!!

Mike

 

[mh2000]

Nope, took both your and Jason's suggestions. The arbor hole is fairly deep compared to the arbor. The reason I thought it was just about right was because my barrel assembly stops at just about the right place... but in measuring the depth and arbor... and scratching my head, I measured the diameter of the actual arbor along its length and found that just past the wedge slot, it gets somewhere between 0.1-0.2mm wider and this is what stops the arbor from going further in--binds on the tight arbor hole. I imagine over time this will wear down and the short arbor problem will become more obvious.

Regarding the slot, at the rear end of the barrel assembly slot, the wedge only contacts the barrel and at the forward end, the wedge is against the arbor, so that part seems fine to me.

I'll have to (over!) think about the internal load path and what impact the binding arbor might have on the gun in general!

 

[mh2000]

Yeah, I thought people would be happy if they corrected the problem! Sorry about the false alarm!

 

[denster]

Ha!! It would be something if they (Uberti) were in the process of "correcting" the problem!!

Mike

Probably not Mike. Uberti's solution to the problem is to increase the arbor diameter at the point the barrel lug is about to meet the frame. This is why on a brand new Uberti you can not use the install the barrel out of rotation then rotate it toward the frame to see if it meets or drops below because that increased diameter stops the barrel from going further. The only way to check is the way you mentioned using a washer.
After a new Uberti has been assembled and disassembled a few times the force of the wedge has forced the arbor hole over that increased diameter enough to wallow out the arbor hole and it just slides on. This is also why a new Uberti is sometimes hard to take apart and the rammer has to be used to jack the barrel off the frame because the wedge has forced the arbore hole over that diameter and it sticks.

 

[mh2000]

I don't think the Uberti "fix" is not as good as the Colt design because the length of barrel assembly engaged (going from the block on the barrel to the "hip" on the arbor) is very short, so the effective spring holding the gun together is very stiff compared to that when the wedge to barrel engages the much longer distance between wedge to arbor end (which has been bottomed). Probably that's why my wedge dropped out while dry firing and why the CapandBall guy found that his wedge was loosening up while firing.

(On my properly fitted Pietta 1851, I can insert the wedge just with my thumb and it won't get loose even after a lot of rounds are put through her!)

 

[Stormson]

The reason I think the arbor is too long is because if I put the barrel assembly on the arbor clocked, I cannot push it on hard enough to close gap between the heel of the barrel assembly and the frame, so it starts out with a small gap (around the thickness of a sheet of paper) and is only closed if I bang the wedge in pretty hard.

Thanks for thoughts!

Have you checked the alignment pins and corresponding holes? I mean like REALLY checked em? Packing grease can get hard as oak wood in some mil-surp guns.. maybe there is some crud in the holes? Try a paper clip and see if you can dig anything out...

On the other hand, BEING Uberti, who cant be bothered to change out the arbor bits, it wouldnt surprise me one bit if a bit used to drill those holes hadnt worn out.. if thats the the case they WONT fix it... and they have no real reason to as 1001 fanboys will show up to tell us all how thats to be expected.... shrugs. check the pin holes is what it sounds like to me.

There has never been, and never will be, such a thing as a properly fitting Uberti arbor. THEY have made that very clear themselves on other forums....

 

[mh2000]

Yeah, Stormson, the enlarged arbor stops the barrel from going in, even when it's clocked and not trying to engage the alignment pins... but everything is clean and decent! (pulled out the big light and reading glasses!). I bought the Uberti because they're the only one who makes this model... but I think the larger Pietta 1851 Navy will see more shooting... still, this is a cute little thing!

Thanks!

 

[Stormson]

Well.. Ok.

One of the Uberti boys themselves was on one of the forums YEARS ago... No I dont remember which, it was MANY years ago. But there was a HUGE discussion with him about the arbor issue. It basically started out in good faith on most peoples part, but as I remember it pretty much ended with Anton, Antonio, what the hell ever his name was, having the attitude of "piss off, its YOUR problem, there is nothing to fix"

So, if the arbor actually FITS? I wouldnt mess with the gun TOO much... Its probably one of the most valuable collector items in the entire BP world.

But personally? I would think there was SOME other issue going on.

 

[mh2000]

Hahaha! I think the gun is going to shoot fine.

 

[denster]

I don't think the Uberti "fix" is not as good as the Colt design because the length of barrel assembly engaged (going from the block on the barrel to the "hip" on the arbor) is very short, so the effective spring holding the gun together is very stiff compared to that when the wedge to barrel engages the much longer distance between wedge to arbor end (which has been bottomed). Probably that's why my wedge dropped out while dry firing and why the CapandBall guy found that his wedge was loosening up while firing.

(On my properly fitted Pietta 1851, I can insert the wedge just with my thumb and it won't get loose even after a lot of rounds are put through her!)

The Uberti Fix is not really a fix and yes your wedge will continue to drop out until you shim the arbor.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Denster is correct. Though it may seem tight, the two assemblies move at different rates when the gun is fired. Over time, it will get worse. The loosening wedge is the sign. Once corrected, the revolver will be the same revolver each time it's re-assembled and the wedge will be happy!!

Mike